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Luke Joeckel with our 1st Pick to solidify the line
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 3458
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Dat Raider wrote:
I was done with your ridiculous train of thought, not other posters with sense.
drafting the best player available isn't ridiculous at all. it's the best strategy. I assume you would've passed on Andrew Luck because we had Carson Palmer and QB isn't a position of need?
Bad example buddy, having Carson Palmer makes need for a QB high. But having Velheer at LT who is only in his 3rd year and been pretty good make need for LT low.


Carson Palmer makes the need for a QB high?

facepalm.jpeg
Yes because he's over 30 and maybe has a few years left in him.
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OUR FUTURE PREMIERE LT!!
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
macklemore wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Dat Raider wrote:
I was done with your ridiculous train of thought, not other posters with sense.
drafting the best player available isn't ridiculous at all. it's the best strategy. I assume you would've passed on Andrew Luck because we had Carson Palmer and QB isn't a position of need?
Bad example buddy, having Carson Palmer makes need for a QB high. But having Velheer at LT who is only in his 3rd year and been pretty good make need for LT low.


Carson Palmer makes the need for a QB high?

facepalm.jpeg
Yes because he's over 30 and maybe has a few years left in him.


So... Because the need will be high in a few years, the need is high now?
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 3458
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
macklemore wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Dat Raider wrote:
I was done with your ridiculous train of thought, not other posters with sense.
drafting the best player available isn't ridiculous at all. it's the best strategy. I assume you would've passed on Andrew Luck because we had Carson Palmer and QB isn't a position of need?
Bad example buddy, having Carson Palmer makes need for a QB high. But having Velheer at LT who is only in his 3rd year and been pretty good make need for LT low.


Carson Palmer makes the need for a QB high?

facepalm.jpeg
Yes because he's over 30 and maybe has a few years left in him.


So... Because the need will be high in a few years, the need is high now?

The need is there period he is an aging QB, our LT is 24, noone would pass on Luck because we had Carson thats why it is a bad example.
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 3272
Location: Hollywierd
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luck made Manning expendable!!!
I knew Manning would still be good, but 3-5 years compared to 10-15 is no contest!!!
We need to sign JV ASAP because once the $$$ is thrown at Albert, Long and Clady, his value goes up too.
Joeckel will be right behind those 3 in potiential yet be very cheap for 4 years...
How many (high picks top 10) elite LT's BUST compared to high picks at DT/DE?!?

1993 FA begins...Draft
John Copeland DE Alabama
Eric Curry DE Alabama

Willie Roaf T Louisiana Tech
RT Lincoln Kennedy
LT's
95 Boselli (injured but elite)
96 Ogden ELITE, RT Anderson Excellent
97 Pace elite, Jones elite
98 Kyle Turley pro bowler with Raider tude. (LOL)
00 Samuels pro bowl for a while
04 Galley we drafted him...

DL
94 Wilkerson BUST, Young excellent, Adams better older like Ted Washington
95 Sapp elite, Kevin Carter very good, Mike Mamula BUST
96 Simeon Rice excellent
97 Russell (we drafted) Peter Boulware had moments
98 Wadsworth BUST Grant Wistrom
00 Corey Simon I think he played well for a bit but I can't remember.

2001 Leonard Davis G Texas
3 Cleveland Browns Gerard Warren DT Florida
4 Cincinnati Bengals Justin Smith DE Missouri

6 New England Patriots Richard Seymour DT Georgia
7 San Francisco 49ers Andre Carter DE California

10 Green Bay Packers Jamal Reynolds DE

I'm bored and want to keep drinking instead of reaserching Laughing
Almost a decade once Free Agency started and I'd say LT's in the top 10 are a LOCK while Dline is hit or miss.
Jockel and Star are top 10 probably top 5. Can't go wrong with either but unless Jockel has really short arms...=P
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9719
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
Darkness wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Star doesn't have elite physical traits? What? Same can be said for Richardson, who actually had elite production to go with his elite athleticism.


No, they don't have elite production, I wasn't talking about their physical traits.


Sheldon Richardson didn't have elite production? Did you watch him?


I would consider his production very good but not elite.


A defensive tackle with 75 tackles in the SEC is quite a feat but I'd have to agree with you. When I think of "elite" production from a defensive tackle I think about Ndamukong Suh. Not only did he have 85 tackles (10 more than Richardson), he had 12.5 sacks (8 more than Richardson), he also had 20.5 TFL (10 more than Richardson), and he had 19 QB hurries (12 more than Richardson). That's not to say Richardson's numbers aren't impressive, because they are, I just wouldn't consider his production "elite."
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14321
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Darkness wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Star doesn't have elite physical traits? What? Same can be said for Richardson, who actually had elite production to go with his elite athleticism.


No, they don't have elite production, I wasn't talking about their physical traits.


Sheldon Richardson didn't have elite production? Did you watch him?


I would consider his production very good but not elite.


A defensive tackle with 75 tackles in the SEC is quite a feat but I'd have to agree with you. When I think of "elite" production from a defensive tackle I think about Ndamukong Suh. Not only did he have 85 tackles (10 more than Richardson), he had 12.5 sacks (8 more than Richardson), he also had 20.5 TFL (10 more than Richardson), and he had 19 QB hurries (12 more than Richardson). That's not to say Richardson's numbers aren't impressive, because they are, I just wouldn't consider his production "elite."



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NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 10789
Location: East Oakland
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serious question:

Why not just trade down and take A&M RT Jake Matthews near the bottom of the 1st round?

Matthews is just as good as his bookend and no one is giving him any credit for it. It would be stupid to take a guy that is comparable with his teammate at a spot in the draft that wouldn't give us the most bang for our draft pick buck.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 5537
Location: CA-TX
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Darkness wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Star doesn't have elite physical traits? What? Same can be said for Richardson, who actually had elite production to go with his elite athleticism.


No, they don't have elite production, I wasn't talking about their physical traits.


Sheldon Richardson didn't have elite production? Did you watch him?


I would consider his production very good but not elite.


A defensive tackle with 75 tackles in the SEC is quite a feat but I'd have to agree with you. When I think of "elite" production from a defensive tackle I think about Ndamukong Suh. Not only did he have 85 tackles (10 more than Richardson), he had 12.5 sacks (8 more than Richardson), he also had 20.5 TFL (10 more than Richardson), and he had 19 QB hurries (12 more than Richardson). That's not to say Richardson's numbers aren't impressive, because they are, I just wouldn't consider his production "elite."


Suh was a Heisman candidate and one of the most productive DT's in college history. His production wasn't elite. It was once in a generation. It's like comparing a typical great season from a RB to the season Adrian Peterson just had.
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Pozzi


Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 352
Location: Carson City, NV
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Serious question:

Why not just trade down and take A&M RT Jake Matthews near the bottom of the 1st round?

Matthews is just as good as his bookend and no one is giving him any credit for it. It would be stupid to take a guy that is comparable with his teammate at a spot in the draft that wouldn't give us the most bang for our draft pick buck.


He's going back to school, but I get your point.

It also sucks to hear that LB Shayne Skov plans on returning as well.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9719
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Serious question:

Why not just trade down and take A&M RT Jake Matthews near the bottom of the 1st round?

Matthews is just as good as his bookend and no one is giving him any credit for it. It would be stupid to take a guy that is comparable with his teammate at a spot in the draft that wouldn't give us the most bang for our draft pick buck.


I love Matthews as a prospect but he's most likely going to return to Texas A&M for his senior season and make the transition to left tackle.
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 10789
Location: East Oakland
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit!!! He has daddy's Bruce Matthews genes that would last for 20 years on our OL. Evil or Very Mad

If he is really going back, I would still trade down and take my chances with Eric Fisher from Central Michigan or D.J. Fluker from Alabama or Brennan Williams from North Carolina. All would be good RT options at positions of value after a trade down or two. And the last two would be better in the power scheme.

I. Want. More. Picks.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 31809
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Serious question:

Why not just trade down and take A&M RT Jake Matthews near the bottom of the 1st round?

Matthews is just as good as his bookend and no one is giving him any credit for it. It would be stupid to take a guy that is comparable with his teammate at a spot in the draft that wouldn't give us the most bang for our draft pick buck.


I love Matthews as a prospect but he's most likely going to return to Texas A&M for his senior season and make the transition to left tackle.


This is why. And even if he did declare, he would be gone before the end of the round like Doc thought.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9719
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Dammit!!! He has daddy's Bruce Matthews genes that would last for 20 years on our OL. Evil or Very Mad

If he is really going back, I would still trade down and take my chances with Eric Fisher from Central Michigan or D.J. Fluker from Alabama or Brennan Williams from North Carolina. All would be good RT options at positions of value after a trade down or two. And the last two would be better in the power scheme.

I. Want. More. Picks.


Eric Fisher kind of reminds me of Jared Veldheer but we would only be able to move back a few spots if we wanted to take him. I have a feeling he'll end up in San Diego at #11. Williams an Fluker will most likely be available in the late second - early third round. I haven't seen enough tape of Williams to make a fair assessment but I don't like Fluker at all. Fluker is a dominant run blocker but he struggles in pass protection and I think it'll be a problem for him in the NFL.
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Pozzi


Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 352
Location: Carson City, NV
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Dammit!!! He has daddy's Bruce Matthews genes that would last for 20 years on our OL. Evil or Very Mad

If he is really going back, I would still trade down and take my chances with Eric Fisher from Central Michigan or D.J. Fluker from Alabama or Brennan Williams from North Carolina. All would be good RT options at positions of value after a trade down or two. And the last two would be better in the power scheme.

I. Want. More. Picks.


Eric Fisher kind of reminds me of Jared Veldheer but we would only be able to move back a few spots if we wanted to take him. I have a feeling he'll end up in San Diego at #11. Williams an Fluker will most likely be available in the late second - early third round. I haven't seen enough tape of Williams to make a fair assessment but I don't like Fluker at all. Fluker is a dominant run blocker but he struggles in pass protection and I think it'll be a problem for him in the NFL.


Eric Fisher will be at the Senior Bowl. Dancing

Can't wait to see how he does in the 1-on-1 drills. His pass protection/technique look outstanding.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9719
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pozzi wrote:
Eric Fisher will be at the Senior Bowl. Dancing

Can't wait to see how he does in the 1-on-1 drills. His pass protection/technique look outstanding.


I really like Joeckel, Lewan, and Fisher. This years left tackle class is one of the best in recent memory. I'm just kind of bummed that one of them will most likely end up in San Diego.
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