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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9835
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChiSportsFan wrote:
If I had to guess who the retired players are: Marcus McNeill, Vernon Carey, and Eric Steinbach. Thought Chad Clifton and Kareem McKenzie retired but that does not seem to be the case, but I don't doubt that Emery had interest in them if he likes to go after aging O-Line men.


Matt light

McNiell was the neck injury.
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bearsaddict


Joined: 26 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonserinNC wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
Haha, did I see somebody say Lovie was loyal to a fault????

He has had 4 OC's and 3 DC's, and he fired his best DC after a super bowl appearence, hahaha, Lovie was a snake to his staff.....I guess the players did like him though

Also the talent argument is the worse....former/current Pro bowlers on the roster this year include the RB, WR, QB, DE, 2 LB's, 2 CB's...and I believe Weems has been to a pro bowl, giving us 2 pro bowl returners and a pro bowl kicker!

How much talent did this guy need!!!???
How about an Oline to start with. If you can't see the total void that was offensive talent for the mass majority of Lovie's time here, I don't know how I could possibly be able to help you understand it.
]

I already have said multiple times that he has had a say in the personnel himself....I just didnt want to mention it again.

This post was me more just explaining that Lovie wasnt a victim.
Also if we are going to bring up an OL, then talk about most of his tenure, he had an OL for most of his tenure.....or if not most, half at least.
Ha ha ha, I have seen few things more ridiculous than that statement written here! Laughing


Zzzzz... OL was good, 05,06, 07,08. We needed youth so we drafted Williams at OT......in 09 Williams wasnt cutting it so we got Pace(which by the way, has Lovie written all over it)....Pace didnt work and we were left with a mix of guys too old and too young.

Dude....I never understand why you try so hard to prove your points.....you actually have pretty decent posts most of the time then you get all defensive and stop making sense. Shame on you
Superman is correct. Good Oline for 2 years. '07 wasn't awful. Every other year has been terrible. That is 3 out of nine years of acceptable Oline play. I'm not getting defensive, I'm pointing out the truth.
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
Haha, did I see somebody say Lovie was loyal to a fault????

He has had 4 OC's and 3 DC's, and he fired his best DC after a super bowl appearence, hahaha, Lovie was a snake to his staff.....I guess the players did like him though

Also the talent argument is the worse....former/current Pro bowlers on the roster this year include the RB, WR, QB, DE, 2 LB's, 2 CB's...and I believe Weems has been to a pro bowl, giving us 2 pro bowl returners and a pro bowl kicker!

How much talent did this guy need!!!???
How about an Oline to start with. If you can't see the total void that was offensive talent for the mass majority of Lovie's time here, I don't know how I could possibly be able to help you understand it.
]

I already have said multiple times that he has had a say in the personnel himself....I just didnt want to mention it again.

This post was me more just explaining that Lovie wasnt a victim.
Also if we are going to bring up an OL, then talk about most of his tenure, he had an OL for most of his tenure.....or if not most, half at least.
Ha ha ha, I have seen few things more ridiculous than that statement written here! Laughing


Zzzzz... OL was good, 05,06, 07,08. We needed youth so we drafted Williams at OT......in 09 Williams wasnt cutting it so we got Pace(which by the way, has Lovie written all over it)....Pace didnt work and we were left with a mix of guys too old and too young.

Dude....I never understand why you try so hard to prove your points.....you actually have pretty decent posts most of the time then you get all defensive and stop making sense. Shame on you
Superman is correct. Good Oline for 2 years. '07 wasn't awful. Every other year has been terrible. That is 3 out of nine years of acceptable Oline play. I'm not getting defensive, I'm pointing out the truth.


Was the o-line talent poor for the majority of Lovie's tenure as the head coach of the Bears? Yes, there's no denying that and JA deserves a lot of the blame for that; however, the o-line coaching and development has been just as bad throughout those years, and the responsibility of hiring the coaches who were there to help develop these players was strictly on Lovie.

People can lay a lot of the blame on JA for the state of the o-line but if I recall correctly it was Tice who said that he wanted to work with this current group of o-linemen because he was confident he could turn them into a serviceable unit


Last edited by topwop1 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bearsaddict


Joined: 26 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not in disagreement with that topwop. Webb has been Tice's pet project, and has stunk it up for the majority of his time on the Oline. I don't think there is any way that Lovie was in agreement with JA though when Omiyale was peddled out there time after time when that dude couldn't block a grandma displaced from her Hoveround. That has JA written all over it, and I don't believe for one second moves like that were made by Lovie. That is just one example.
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IronMike84


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same old o-line debate during a head coaching search... what a snoozer.
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bearsaddict


Joined: 26 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
Same old o-line debate during a head coaching search... what a snoozer.
Gee, I guess we should apologize for talking about anything but the head coaching search. Rolling Eyes
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
I'm not in disagreement with that topwop. Webb has been Tice's pet project, and has stunk it up for the majority of his time on the Oline. I don't think there is any way that Lovie was in agreement with JA though when Omiyale was peddled out there time after time when that dude couldn't block a grandma displaced from her Hoveround. That has JA written all over it, and I don't believe for one second moves like that were made by Lovie. That is just one example.


Here's where you'll probably think I'm crazy but IMO Omiyale actually played some decent ball for the Bears at times. Mind you he was also really bad at times, but what could you really expect from a late round journeyman o-linemen who was let go from his previous team? A lot of inconsistencies. At least Seattle's GM thought something of him since he is currently a backup swing tackle for them.
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MonserinNC


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 5231
Location: Back in the CHIIII
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
I'm not in disagreement with that topwop. Webb has been Tice's pet project, and has stunk it up for the majority of his time on the Oline. I don't think there is any way that Lovie was in agreement with JA though when Omiyale was peddled out there time after time when that dude couldn't block a grandma displaced from her Hoveround. That has JA written all over it, and I don't believe for one second moves like that were made by Lovie. That is just one example.


Here's where you'll probably think I'm crazy but IMO Omiyale actually played some decent ball for the Bears at times. Mind you he was also really bad at times, but what could you really expect from a late round journeyman o-linemen who was let go from his previous team? A lot of inconsistencies. At least Seattle's GM thought something of him since he is currently a backup swing tackle for them.


I dont agree with you that he played good ball here, he was horrible.

My thing with Omiyale was that at least we tried! At the time we got we him, Omiyale was a young backup who looked to have alot of potential. Not that it matters now anyway.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7945
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonserinNC wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
05 and 06 it was a top 5 OL. 07 was the start of the decline, 08 it fell off a cliff. Lovie had a good OL 2 whole years of the 9 spent here. Did Lovie have a hand in bringing in Pace, probably, but it reeks of Jerry Angelo's OL strategy as well of trying to piece together aging veterans at the end of their prime and hoping to strike gold. Not building thru the draft. What worries me most going forward is apparently this is Emery's philosophy too since the 3 OL we had targeted in FA last year ALL RETIRED


Well 4 years was what I meant by half, I will give you 08 I guess, but you cant just not count 07 because it wasnt top 5, haha....I think we can settle on 3 years, so a third of his tenure.

As far as Emery.....or any other GM for that matter...who are these OL you guys are saying to get???? I ask it every time and no one names anyone. In a few mocks I have seen Vollmer and Levitre. Vollmer is an often injured swing OT and Levitre is a pretty good LG.

Lets just do a hypothetical scenario....if the Bears had those 2 players on the roster this year do you really think we would have won more games?? Could we have avoided the Seahawks or Vikings loss and the Packers sweep??

I just do not understand why you guys view Lovie as a guy who was handcuffed when him and Jerry BOTH came from Tampa, and pretty much had the exact same demeanor!!

Hypothetical again though....lets say he was handcuffed...why would you want a coach who was so easily handcuffed and was too scared to speak up about what his team needed!??? Lets say he did only have a good OL for 2 out of 9 years....why would you want a coach who sat around for 7 years of his time here and never spoke up???

This Lovie thing is INSANE!!! Shocked
When he does not get hired it should be clear just HOW insane it is.
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he will be hired by the Bills. I give him 2-3 years to get things turned around there before he gets fired again.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7945
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
Haha, did I see somebody say Lovie was loyal to a fault????

He has had 4 OC's and 3 DC's, and he fired his best DC after a super bowl appearence, hahaha, Lovie was a snake to his staff.....I guess the players did like him though

Also the talent argument is the worse....former/current Pro bowlers on the roster this year include the RB, WR, QB, DE, 2 LB's, 2 CB's...and I believe Weems has been to a pro bowl, giving us 2 pro bowl returners and a pro bowl kicker!

How much talent did this guy need!!!???
How about an Oline to start with. If you can't see the total void that was offensive talent for the mass majority of Lovie's time here, I don't know how I could possibly be able to help you understand it.
]

I already have said multiple times that he has had a say in the personnel himself....I just didnt want to mention it again.

This post was me more just explaining that Lovie wasnt a victim.
Also if we are going to bring up an OL, then talk about most of his tenure, he had an OL for most of his tenure.....or if not most, half at least.
Ha ha ha, I have seen few things more ridiculous than that statement written here! Laughing


Zzzzz... OL was good, 05,06, 07,08. We needed youth so we drafted Williams at OT......in 09 Williams wasnt cutting it so we got Pace(which by the way, has Lovie written all over it)....Pace didnt work and we were left with a mix of guys too old and too young.

Dude....I never understand why you try so hard to prove your points.....you actually have pretty decent posts most of the time then you get all defensive and stop making sense. Shame on you
Superman is correct. Good Oline for 2 years. '07 wasn't awful. Every other year has been terrible. That is 3 out of nine years of acceptable Oline play. I'm not getting defensive, I'm pointing out the truth.


Was the o-line talent poor for the majority of Lovie's tenure as the head coach of the Bears? Yes, there's no denying that and JA deserves a lot of the blame for that; however, the o-line coaching and development has been just as bad throughout those years, and the responsibility of hiring the coaches who were there to help develop these players was strictly on Lovie.

People can lay a lot of the blame on JA for the state of the o-line but if I recall correctly it was Tice who said that he wanted to work with this current group of o-linemen because he was confident he could turn them into a serviceable unit
There are only a few teams with really good offensive line in the entire league so Smith's hand was not that different than other teams including teams which won the Super Bowl (Pitt, GB).

There was NOTHING on this team which did not bear the stamp of Lovie Smith. It was HIS team not Angelo's.
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonserinNC wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
I'm not in disagreement with that topwop. Webb has been Tice's pet project, and has stunk it up for the majority of his time on the Oline. I don't think there is any way that Lovie was in agreement with JA though when Omiyale was peddled out there time after time when that dude couldn't block a grandma displaced from her Hoveround. That has JA written all over it, and I don't believe for one second moves like that were made by Lovie. That is just one example.


Here's where you'll probably think I'm crazy but IMO Omiyale actually played some decent ball for the Bears at times. Mind you he was also really bad at times, but what could you really expect from a late round journeyman o-linemen who was let go from his previous team? A lot of inconsistencies. At least Seattle's GM thought something of him since he is currently a backup swing tackle for them.


I dont agree with you that he played good ball here, he was horrible.

My thing with Omiyale was that at least we tried! At the time we got we him, Omiyale was a young backup who looked to have alot of potential. Not that it matters now anyway.


Ok well let me reiterate it then. Compared to Chris Williams he was an upgrade at LT, which I guess is not saying much.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
I think he will be hired by the Bills. I give him 2-3 years to get things turned around there before he gets fired again.
That was what I hoped would happen so the Bears won't have to eat that salary but it is looking less likely by the day.

PLEASE someone hire Smith. He's a gr...., uh, he's a go...., uh, he's better than mo... oh, heck just hire the guy. He has two legs.
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MonserinNC


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
I think he will be hired by the Bills. I give him 2-3 years to get things turned around there before he gets fired again.
That was what I hoped would happen so the Bears won't have to eat that salary but it is looking less likely by the day.

PLEASE someone hire Smith. He's a gr...., uh, he's a go...., uh, he's better than mo... oh, heck just hire the guy. He has two legs.


Haha, I actually would like him with the Bills, he would be able to get the most out of an under achieving group and I actually think he will do well.

To just clear this up, im not a Lovie HATER....but Im not a Lovie sympathizer either. It was just plain time for a change, Dungy got fired from Tampa and he basically made Tampa relevant ENTIRELY. Its just when you have one set of eyes on a team for sooo long, they just get stale, everyone around Halas was too comfortable.

Like, Lovie didnt even TRY to explain himself to the fans anymore. And that attitude was in the players too, that entire locker room was very smug when you think about it. DJ Moore was the only one to speak his mind and Lovie benched him!

Also like I have said numerous times I believe he had a say in all personnel moves as well. There is no way Martz and Angelo were the only ones in on the Greg Olsen trade.
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