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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: the 50 yard line
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 Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| ovaw8lover wrote: | | I wouldnt really put forth a strong effort to sign Hartline. He is ok but not worthy of anything but just north of the veteran minimum. Anyone Miami signs better have size and speed. But I could careless until Miami sures up its O-line. |
+1.
Hartline is a roll player not a starter.
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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3766
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | I wouldnt really put forth a strong effort to sign Hartline. He is ok but not worthy of anything but just north of the veteran minimum. Anyone Miami signs better have size and speed. But I could careless until Miami sures up its O-line. |
+1.
Hartline is a roll player not a starter. |
Not a starter?
Seriously
He may not be a number 1, but he's definitely a very good number 2 (I'm pretty sure he just made the Pro-Bowl and had a 1000 yard season).
He averages 15 yards per catch on his career....that's higher then....B. Marshall, Bowe, Andre Johnson, Welker, Reggie Wayne....and a plethora of others.
He also only had 3 drops on the year....again most of the receivers who may be ranked higher had 5 or more (all on the list above)...
We look at Td's and 40 speed and "gamebreaking ability", but the guy was only 1 behind Marshall in receptions over 25 yards.
Maybe you are seeing something I'm not, but the guy is a damn good football player that makes catches (difficult ones) and rarely drops passes. He works well with Tannehill and has adapted well to this offense. He may be one of the best route runner in the NFL which will pay huge dividends as Tannehill becomes more comfortable throwing to a spot.
The guy is a Starter, if fact he would be a starter on almost every roster in the NFL...
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | I wouldnt really put forth a strong effort to sign Hartline. He is ok but not worthy of anything but just north of the veteran minimum. Anyone Miami signs better have size and speed. But I could careless until Miami sures up its O-line. |
+1.
Hartline is a roll player not a starter. |
Not a starter?
Seriously
He may not be a number 1, but he's definitely a very good number 2 (I'm pretty sure he just made the Pro-Bowl and had a 1000 yard season).
He averages 15 yards per catch on his career....that's higher then....B. Marshall, Bowe, Andre Johnson, Welker, Reggie Wayne....and a plethora of others.
He also only had 3 drops on the year....again most of the receivers who may be ranked higher had 5 or more (all on the list above)...
We look at Td's and 40 speed and "gamebreaking ability", but the guy was only 1 behind Marshall in receptions over 25 yards.
Maybe you are seeing something I'm not, but the guy is a damn good football player that makes catches (difficult ones) and rarely drops passes. He works well with Tannehill and has adapted well to this offense. He may be one of the best route runner in the NFL which will pay huge dividends as Tannehill becomes more comfortable throwing to a spot.
The guy is a Starter, if fact he would be a starter on almost every roster in the NFL... |
Hartline is the recipient of a favorable roster devoid of talent at the position. He never breaks tackles and he never scores. Yes, his hands are special and his body control impressive. He is not without value. However, this team had a losing record largely because we lacked play makers and guys that score. Hartline typifies those shortcomings. He is, in my book, an exceptional #3. If he starts our offense will always lack explosiveness.
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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3766
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | I wouldnt really put forth a strong effort to sign Hartline. He is ok but not worthy of anything but just north of the veteran minimum. Anyone Miami signs better have size and speed. But I could careless until Miami sures up its O-line. |
+1.
Hartline is a roll player not a starter. |
Not a starter?
Seriously
He may not be a number 1, but he's definitely a very good number 2 (I'm pretty sure he just made the Pro-Bowl and had a 1000 yard season).
He averages 15 yards per catch on his career....that's higher then....B. Marshall, Bowe, Andre Johnson, Welker, Reggie Wayne....and a plethora of others.
He also only had 3 drops on the year....again most of the receivers who may be ranked higher had 5 or more (all on the list above)...
We look at Td's and 40 speed and "gamebreaking ability", but the guy was only 1 behind Marshall in receptions over 25 yards.
Maybe you are seeing something I'm not, but the guy is a damn good football player that makes catches (difficult ones) and rarely drops passes. He works well with Tannehill and has adapted well to this offense. He may be one of the best route runner in the NFL which will pay huge dividends as Tannehill becomes more comfortable throwing to a spot.
The guy is a Starter, if fact he would be a starter on almost every roster in the NFL... |
Hartline is the recipient of a favorable roster devoid of talent at the position. He never breaks tackles and he never scores. Yes, his hands are special and his body control impressive. He is not without value. However, this team had a losing record largely because we lacked play makers and guys that score. Hartline typifies those shortcomings. He is, in my book, an exceptional #3. If he starts our offense will always lack explosiveness. |
Hartline has great hands, good speed (4.45) and excellent body control, but isn't a starter? Not many receivers have a huge amount of RAC yards, the guy manage to get open and make plays even as being the only threat on the team.
HE doesn't score...neither did CJ this season....all those yards and catches and he had 5 TD's....is he not explosive?
I'm not debating he is a number 1....I don't think he is, but I believe he could is one of the better complimentary (#2) receivers in the NFL.
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skatewood2
Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 5739
Location: Kent, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | Hartline is the recipient of a favorable roster devoid of talent at the position. He never breaks tackles and he never scores. Yes, his hands are special and his body control impressive. He is not without value. However, this team had a losing record largely because we lacked play makers and guys that score. Hartline typifies those shortcomings. He is, in my book, an exceptional #3. If he starts our offense will always lack explosiveness. |
Merc,
Are you talking about Hartline or Bush here? Because I would say all of the same things about Bush but everyone and their brother thinks that he should be the first player to be resigned. Yes Bush is scary, but I have seen more games where Bush disappeared completely while Hartline was fairly consistent all season long. That is what we need consistency, that is a great compliment to the #1 star player that I am sure they will try to find this offseason. And Hartline does have some deceptive speed, I don't know how many times he was behind some of the better CB's in the league and either Tannyhill either overthrew him or hit him nicely. He is not going to be the fastest WR on the team, but he proved this season that he is a very good #2 WR IMO.
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| skatewood2 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | Hartline is the recipient of a favorable roster devoid of talent at the position. He never breaks tackles and he never scores. Yes, his hands are special and his body control impressive. He is not without value. However, this team had a losing record largely because we lacked play makers and guys that score. Hartline typifies those shortcomings. He is, in my book, an exceptional #3. If he starts our offense will always lack explosiveness. |
Merc,
Are you talking about Hartline or Bush here? Because I would say all of the same things about Bush but everyone and their brother thinks that he should be the first player to be resigned. Yes Bush is scary, but I have seen more games where Bush disappeared completely while Hartline was fairly consistent all season long. That is what we need consistency, that is a great compliment to the #1 star player that I am sure they will try to find this offseason. And Hartline does have some deceptive speed, I don't know how many times he was behind some of the better CB's in the league and either Tannyhill either overthrew him or hit him nicely. He is not going to be the fastest WR on the team, but he proved this season that he is a very good #2 WR IMO. |
Bush finds the end zone and breaks tackles. Hartline does not. Ever.
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"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21"
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skatewood2
Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 5739
Location: Kent, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | skatewood2 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | Hartline is the recipient of a favorable roster devoid of talent at the position. He never breaks tackles and he never scores. Yes, his hands are special and his body control impressive. He is not without value. However, this team had a losing record largely because we lacked play makers and guys that score. Hartline typifies those shortcomings. He is, in my book, an exceptional #3. If he starts our offense will always lack explosiveness. |
Merc,
Are you talking about Hartline or Bush here? Because I would say all of the same things about Bush but everyone and their brother thinks that he should be the first player to be resigned. Yes Bush is scary, but I have seen more games where Bush disappeared completely while Hartline was fairly consistent all season long. That is what we need consistency, that is a great compliment to the #1 star player that I am sure they will try to find this offseason. And Hartline does have some deceptive speed, I don't know how many times he was behind some of the better CB's in the league and either Tannyhill either overthrew him or hit him nicely. He is not going to be the fastest WR on the team, but he proved this season that he is a very good #2 WR IMO. |
Bush finds the end zone and breaks tackles. Hartline does not. Ever. |
You are right Merc, he does find the end zone. I looked it up, it was six times this year and six times last year. And yes, Hartline has only made six TD's in his career. But it's easier for a RB to score TD's than it is for a WR because the WR is dependant on the QB where the RB is not as much. But this doesn't prove that Bush is more important to Miami than Hartline is IMO. I have never said that Hartline is our #1 WR, but he is our #2 WR with the right #1 WR and QB. He has had either one or the other in Miami and not both. Not only that, but an excellent route runner with excellent hands is paramount in this type of offense is it not? So why not reward a guy who did more than was expected with a rookie QB and not other help at WR except for Bess who wasn't that special either and give him help?
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| skatewood2 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | skatewood2 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | Hartline is the recipient of a favorable roster devoid of talent at the position. He never breaks tackles and he never scores. Yes, his hands are special and his body control impressive. He is not without value. However, this team had a losing record largely because we lacked play makers and guys that score. Hartline typifies those shortcomings. He is, in my book, an exceptional #3. If he starts our offense will always lack explosiveness. |
Merc,
Are you talking about Hartline or Bush here? Because I would say all of the same things about Bush but everyone and their brother thinks that he should be the first player to be resigned. Yes Bush is scary, but I have seen more games where Bush disappeared completely while Hartline was fairly consistent all season long. That is what we need consistency, that is a great compliment to the #1 star player that I am sure they will try to find this offseason. And Hartline does have some deceptive speed, I don't know how many times he was behind some of the better CB's in the league and either Tannyhill either overthrew him or hit him nicely. He is not going to be the fastest WR on the team, but he proved this season that he is a very good #2 WR IMO. |
Bush finds the end zone and breaks tackles. Hartline does not. Ever. |
You are right Merc, he does find the end zone. I looked it up, it was six times this year and six times last year. And yes, Hartline has only made six TD's in his career. But it's easier for a RB to score TD's than it is for a WR because the WR is dependant on the QB where the RB is not as much. But this doesn't prove that Bush is more important to Miami than Hartline is IMO. I have never said that Hartline is our #1 WR, but he is our #2 WR with the right #1 WR and QB. He has had either one or the other in Miami and not both. Not only that, but an excellent route runner with excellent hands is paramount in this type of offense is it not? So why not reward a guy who did more than was expected with a rookie QB and not other help at WR except for Bess who wasn't that special either and give him help? |
I like Hartline. I like him as a roll player. Perhaps the #3 guy, and then we could let Bess walk. I said this in a previous thread, but Bess and Hartline both have the same exact holes in their games. Neither break tackles and neither score TD's. Not that this is a huge surprise, but the way to win games is to put points on the board. If our WR's can't score TD's (as evidenced by 1 TD each all season) then we are going to struggle. Hartline benefited from our roster being so woefully void of talent at the WR position that he became the primary target. He is better suited to play a roll as a guy that comes in on 3rd and long and helps us move the chains. I would NEVER let him have a huge contract. If Ireland resigns him to a huge deal he is a bigger idiot than I thought.
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"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21"
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fishfan4life
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1920
Location: santa rosa california
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | skatewood2 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | skatewood2 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | Hartline is the recipient of a favorable roster devoid of talent at the position. He never breaks tackles and he never scores. Yes, his hands are special and his body control impressive. He is not without value. However, this team had a losing record largely because we lacked play makers and guys that score. Hartline typifies those shortcomings. He is, in my book, an exceptional #3. If he starts our offense will always lack explosiveness. |
Merc,
Are you talking about Hartline or Bush here? Because I would say all of the same things about Bush but everyone and their brother thinks that he should be the first player to be resigned. Yes Bush is scary, but I have seen more games where Bush disappeared completely while Hartline was fairly consistent all season long. That is what we need consistency, that is a great compliment to the #1 star player that I am sure they will try to find this offseason. And Hartline does have some deceptive speed, I don't know how many times he was behind some of the better CB's in the league and either Tannyhill either overthrew him or hit him nicely. He is not going to be the fastest WR on the team, but he proved this season that he is a very good #2 WR IMO. |
Bush finds the end zone and breaks tackles. Hartline does not. Ever. |
You are right Merc, he does find the end zone. I looked it up, it was six times this year and six times last year. And yes, Hartline has only made six TD's in his career. But it's easier for a RB to score TD's than it is for a WR because the WR is dependant on the QB where the RB is not as much. But this doesn't prove that Bush is more important to Miami than Hartline is IMO. I have never said that Hartline is our #1 WR, but he is our #2 WR with the right #1 WR and QB. He has had either one or the other in Miami and not both. Not only that, but an excellent route runner with excellent hands is paramount in this type of offense is it not? So why not reward a guy who did more than was expected with a rookie QB and not other help at WR except for Bess who wasn't that special either and give him help? |
I like Hartline. I like him as a roll player. Perhaps the #3 guy, and then we could let Bess walk. I said this in a previous thread, but Bess and Hartline both have the same exact holes in their games. Neither break tackles and neither score TD's. Not that this is a huge surprise, but the way to win games is to put points on the board. If our WR's can't score TD's (as evidenced by 1 TD each all season) then we are going to struggle. Hartline benefited from our roster being so woefully void of talent at the WR position that he became the primary target. He is better suited to play a roll as a guy that comes in on 3rd and long and helps us move the chains. I would NEVER let him have a huge contract. If Ireland resigns him to a huge deal he is a bigger idiot than I thought. |
If push came to shove i would much prefer hartline over bess, bess is a great story undrafted solid team guy and all but 11 TD's in 5 years as a starter is terrible |
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Warpticon
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 1556
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| It's so funny seeing people talk about how our wide receivers don't score and then citing Wes Welker as an example of a receiver who scores--the same Wes Welker who scored a whopping 1 touchdown before the Dolphins traded him. Maybe it's not strictly a function of the receiver? |
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fishfan4life
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1920
Location: santa rosa california
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Wes welker started only one season in Miami |
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DOLFAN016
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 647
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:44 am Post subject: |
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When does Davone Bess's contract expire? I only ask because what do you think of Denard Robinson being our new slot receiver? We could slowly work him in for a year and then let Bess walk. He is a true playmaker no matter where he lines up on the field. The guy played solely at RB for their bowl game and I believe he came pretty close to getting 100 yards. If he could learn to catch consistenly he would be a pretty huge upgrade.
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fishfan4life
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1920
Location: santa rosa california
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| DOLFAN016 wrote: | | When does Davone Bess's contract expire? I only ask because what do you think of Denard Robinson being our new slot receiver? We could slowly work him in for a year and then let Bess walk. He is a true playmaker no matter where he lines up on the field. The guy played solely at RB for their bowl game and I believe he came pretty close to getting 100 yards. If he could learn to catch consistenly he would be a pretty huge upgrade. |
I am intigued by robinson if only in the right round. For wht its worth Kiper has him ranked pretty decent in his wr rankings. I just cant get it out of my mind the panthers spent a 2nd on Amanti edwards to play WR a few years ago and that failed miserably. Robinson has a slot look and breaks tackles so if the right round and let him learn for a year yeah |
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dolphan9954
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 6960
Location: Miami
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| fishfan4life wrote: | | DOLFAN016 wrote: | | When does Davone Bess's contract expire? I only ask because what do you think of Denard Robinson being our new slot receiver? We could slowly work him in for a year and then let Bess walk. He is a true playmaker no matter where he lines up on the field. The guy played solely at RB for their bowl game and I believe he came pretty close to getting 100 yards. If he could learn to catch consistenly he would be a pretty huge upgrade. |
I am intigued by robinson if only in the right round. For wht its worth Kiper has him ranked pretty decent in his wr rankings. I just cant get it out of my mind the panthers spent a 2nd on Amanti edwards to play WR a few years ago and that failed miserably. Robinson has a slot look and breaks tackles so if the right round and let him learn for a year yeah |
I would take Robinson in the 4th or 5th round. I like him as a gadget player. He is about one of the five best players in college football with the ball in his hands. I would give him 3-7 touches a game. Screen passes, short passes, designed runs, options etc.
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