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Coach Firings Steelers should Consider
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Gatoradus wrote:
One offensive coordinator that I wouldn't mind if Todd Haley actually botch for Cardinals or other gig... Chuck Gailey.

He'd be great for our running backs. Not sure how he'd fit in our passing offense though but and then Bills never really had a good WR corp.


You mean CHAN Gailey?

And yes...he would be possbily my first choice if we lost Haley.

In fact, if I knew we could land Gailey. Id be fine with dismissing Haley.


I could agree with this. Not a huge fan of Haley so far beyond him at least understanding that a bad o-line should mean quicker plays.


Im not going to make excuses for Haley, and I do understand why some people dont like him...but I think this year, poor execution played a bigger part. It always plays a part...even under Arians, it wasnt always his fault, but at least under Arians, our receivers were catching the ball and getting open more. And up until Ben got hurt, he was playing better than I ever saw him play under Arians.


People tend to only remember the present. Does anyone remember when we were saying how good he is in changing up our offense the first 6 or so weeks? I mean, that was the best offensive system I've seen since I've been a fan. We kept defenses guessing, but as injuries and execution started to play a part, then our offense mightily suffered. Never got into the same groove.


I didnt start hearing any really bad criticisms of Haley until Ben went down. There were some before that, but mostly people saying that Haley didnt play to our strengthsm which is complete bunk. His offense still allowed Ben to be Ben despite claims to the contrary...the only difference is it emphasised quicker plays. When we did call plays that had big play potential, our WRs, especially Wallace, werent getting open downfield. But instead of realizing that, some people just decided to blame that all on Haley....which I get, but it was his first year and was working with what he had.

Im still a big Haley supporter....but still, I would probably dump him for Gailey, who was the guy Ive wanted for years now. With a QB like Ben, I think he could work wonders for us. He got the most out of a Buffalo offense with far less talent.


That's why we need Bill Cowher as our WR coach! Cool Laughing Laughing
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'll say this much. There are at least 6 TDs that either bounced off our WRs fingertips/chests or went flipping out of their butter-covered fingers while they had a clear path to the end zone.


- 3 games without Ben
- inexplicable butterfingers of our WRs and RBs
- worst field position in recent memory

despite that, we still outscored the 2011 Steelers' offense. Get the WRs their hands back, and we score as many points on offense as we've scored since we've had Ben

Haley turtled once Ben got hurt and when Ben came back, he didn't unturtle.
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kwabalicious


Joined: 31 Jul 2011
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Location: PA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't mind Haley coaching this team, but if he leaves, I'd like to give Kirby Wilson the job.
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steelcurtain29


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dook wrote:
Some Steeler fans are way too critical.

Whizenhunt got us a super bowl win even though Ben played poorly. He also got the lowly Cardinals to the super bowl. If Warner doesn't retire the Cardinals probably would have remained one of the top teams in the NFC.

Give the guy the credit that he's due.


You completely contradicted yourself. First, you say he took the lowly Cardinals to the Super Bowl; then mention why they truly went there. Warner and that passing attack was the sole reason they succeeded.

Whisenhunt didn't do anything for us in that Super Bowl, either. Ben sucked, but the offense wasn't exactly booming. The play-calling wasn't special. Outside of the Randel El / Ward trick play; what did Whisenhunt really do that requires him to be given any dues?
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grimmagician87


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Location: West of Steelcity
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote/]You mean CHAN Gailey?

And yes...he would be possbily my first choice if we lost Haley.

In fact, if I knew we could land Gailey. Id be fine with dismissing Haley.[/quote]
Wasnt Gailey here in 95.. I believe it was his idea to have slash in the wildcat if im not mistaken... Heck yeah Ill take him back but at the same time I think that we should give haley a real shot.
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LTF


Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't completely understand why Haley gets a pass for the way the Steelers finished the season.

You could make just as good an argument that once opposing defenses got film on what Haley was trying to do that our offense was a lot less effective than what they were doing early on in the season. You can't just say "Oh, Ben was hurt" and shush away any criticism of the offense for the last month when Ben actually wasn't hurt at all when he came back. That's a copout for poor performance. The offense finished the season on fumes.

And you can't just look at stats in a vacuum. Last year the Steelers had 10 games against the top 10 scoring defenses in football... this year we only had 3 such games. 10 games this year were against the bottom half of the league's scoring Ds, and we only scored 11 more points than last year (which was a year in which our OC was deservedly fired).

This neutered attrition offense doesn't make sense considering we've got an aging D that can't be depended on to be the dominant unit it has been for over a decade. 6 out of the 7 top teams in passing YPA made the playoffs; only two of the bottom half of the league in passing YPA made the playoffs, both as wildcards and one of those teams depending on one of the best seasons by a RB in modern history to make it. We've got a ball control offense that doesn't necessarily move the ball well and all season was a bottom half scoring unit. Hard to support a system that produces those results.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if you post in this thread, even if you want to bash Halley, you need to mention Dave Toub or Bobby April with every post Shocked Cool
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LTF wrote:
I just don't completely understand why Haley gets a pass for the way the Steelers finished the season.


I don't think anyone is giving him a pass. We just aren't making him the scapegoat as many other Steelers fans are.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillersenat wrote:
LTF wrote:
I just don't completely understand why Haley gets a pass for the way the Steelers finished the season.


I don't think anyone is giving him a pass. We just aren't making him the scapegoat as many other Steelers fans are.


+1
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LTF


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not making Haley a scapegoat... I'm giving him what I feel is warranted criticism. He has a lot of talented pieces to work with on offense -- I definitely feel he not only underperformed but designed an offense that doesn't play to the strengths of his best players. He was brought here to improve execution and scoring -- he didn't, straight simple.

He wasn't even our worst coach on that side of the ball (that honor goes to Sean Kugler, whose linemen either come in underweight like Pouncey or overweight like Colon, and whose unit consistently fails to execute and makes the same mistakes over and over again).

I just have a feeling we're going to be having a similar conversation less than a year from now with Haley... involving many of the same problems I've discussed. Hope I'm wrong, but he's a stubborn OC that is forcing his system on this roster and not adapting to our strengths/weaknesses.
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the offense has underperformed, relative to its talent level, for years now.

either our OC's have consistently stunk (possible), or we're not as talented as we think, or the head of the offense on the field is very inconsistent

that said, despite 3 games without Ben, a ridiculous # of drops by our WRs, fumble-itis that struck our pitiful RB corps and our overrated, arrogant Young Fumble Crew, and some ridiculous pitiful field position all season long, we still outscored the 2011 Steelers
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LTF wrote:
I'm not making Haley a scapegoat... I'm giving him what I feel is warranted criticism. He has a lot of talented pieces to work with on offense -- I definitely feel he not only underperformed but designed an offense that doesn't play to the strengths of his best players. He was brought here to improve execution and scoring -- he didn't, straight simple.


Once again, this is complete bunk.

You continue to post things about Haley and the offense that simply arent true.

Please explain how it doesnt play to our strengths. Youve already ducked that question twice.

Exection? ONCE AGAIN, is Haley supposed to catch balls the WRs are dropping and run their routes so they get open? Is he supposed to throw the ball for Byron and Batch when Ben is out? Is he supposed to run block for a makeshift OLine?

Scoring...once again, I suggest you do some research and look at our scoring this year compared to last. its not much different...plus we were missing Ben for a few games and last years schedule was MUCH easier.

And you say that you arent making Haley the scapegoat, but when trashing him you NEVER mention the other issues.

Haley wasnt perfect. We get that.

If you dont like him...im fine with that..

But please...dont say you arent making him a scapegoat when you clearly are.
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LTF


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
You continue to post things about Haley and the offense that simply arent true.

Please explain how it doesnt play to our strengths. Youve already ducked that question twice.


Actually, you've never addressed how Haley's system plays to our strengths. If anyone is dunking the question, it's you. I'm presenting arguments against Haley...you're focusing more on me as a poster for some reason or another.

But to break it down:

1. Ben is not a cerebral under center passer. He doesn't play with great timing or precision in the short passing game. He's not Tom Brady and pretending that's his game is foolish. He's a shotgun gunslinger who depends more on making plays down the field than anticipating plays before they happen. Forcing this sort of style on Ben doesn't play to his strengths as a player, straight simple. The offense for the first six weeks of the season was basically a yard or two on first and second down and then Ben magic on third and long. He excels because he's a dynamic, unique, superstar QB.

2. A West Coast passing attack with a bunch of speedy runts at WR does not play to their strengths either. These are players that operate at their best in space. To handle a WC system you need physical receivers that can hold up to the punishment of consistently taking that 8 yard pass and getting gang tackled by LBs and safeties. Fact is those guys are going to have more ball control issues when they're being asked to take on more punishment.

3. The current offense is designed to get to 3rd and 2. Mike Wallace is the most dynamic deep receiver that's ever come to Pittsburgh. Asking him to block on close to 80% of the first down plays in the biggest game of the season (home against the Bengals) takes away from his strengths as a player. Both Brown and Wallace regressed this season, and part of that is due to playing in a neutered, safe system that doesn't take aggressive shots down the field on early downs. Defenses adjusted as the season went along and put the clamp down on the O.
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LTF


Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
we still outscored the 2011 Steelers


In 2011 Shaun Suisham was 23-31 on field goals. He was 6-11 from 40-49 yards.

In 2012 Shaun Suisham was 28-31 on field goals. He was 12-12 from 40-49.

So if you want to keep harping on the fact that the 2012 Steelers outscored the 2011 version by 11 whole points, have at it. Put that 11 point margin as a feather in your cap. But do so while looking at the simple difference of Suisham from one year to the next and acknowledge had he kicked the same as he did in 2011 we would have scored less points this year than we did in '11. And at least consider the 2011 Steelers played 10 games against the top 10 scoring defenses that season, whereas the 2012 Steelers only played 3 such games.

Acting like this year was a step in the right direction for the offense is nonsense. At best they were spinning tires in the mud. Arians was fired for his performance in 2011. Haley did nothing to improve that performance.
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MightyJoeYoung


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think LTF has come out on top this time.
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