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skatewood2


Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 5713
Location: Kent, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that Ireland deserves this offseason to build the team that Philben wants. If he can't do that by the end of TC than I am all for him being fired and someone that Philben wants brought in. But Ireland deserves this offseason to prove that what happened the seasons prior to Philben arriving was based solely on what Sporano wanted.

I am so excited for this offseason.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatewood2 wrote:
I think that Ireland deserves this offseason to build the team that Philben wants. If he can't do that by the end of TC than I am all for him being fired and someone that Philben wants brought in. But Ireland deserves this offseason to prove that what happened the seasons prior to Philben arriving was based solely on what Sporano wanted.

I am so excited for this offseason.


Hey buddy, man I just can't go along with that.

"Ireland deserves this offseason to build ..." what was 2012 all about ...?

I like C. Clay & Pouncy, J. Martin may turn out OK at RT.
Lamar Miller has talent ... ok I'll grant that truth be told but where are 4 - 5 yr players he's played a hand in drafting ?
Where are the players that may have pushed this team to 9 - 7 ...???

Maybe J. Dee & S. Ross aren't comfortable making a change right now cause they aren't "football people" so I can
see things staying status quo.
But at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if he was fired in the next couple days either.

Hell I think Polian would be an excellent choice or anybody Phillbin really liked for that matter. Ireland deserves to be fired.

my 2 cents
sug
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skatewood2


Joined: 10 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
"Ireland deserves this offseason to build ..." what was 2012 all about ...?
sug


Sug,
I get what you are talking about, but at the same time for every complaint that you have about the roster I can say that he picked the player that supposedly fit into the scheme at that time.

Now forward ahead another year and Ireland did a good job picking players for a brand new scheme without completely gutting the entire roster and starting over. I say he deserves one more year because if he can't improve upon what he did this past season then I agree he needs to go. But he is working with a new coaching staff who seems to know what they are doing better than the last coaching staff. We will see as the 2013 NFL season begins.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatewood2 wrote:
SUG wrote:
"Ireland deserves this offseason to build ..." what was 2012 all about ...?
sug


Sug,
I get what you are talking about, but at the same time for every complaint that you have about the roster I can say that he picked the player that supposedly fit into the scheme at that time.

Now forward ahead another year and Ireland did a good job picking players for a brand new scheme without completely gutting the entire roster and starting over. I say he deserves one more year because if he can't improve upon what he did this past season then I agree he needs to go. But he is working with a new coaching staff who seems to know what they are doing better than the last coaching staff. We will see as the 2013 NFL season begins.


We've been stuck picking in the middle of the pack the past 5 years.
Sorry but that ain't gonna cut it, those are horrible draft numbers by any standards.

Where is the impact of Irelands draft pks cause I can't see it.
Saying you want to give him 1 more yr is one thing, but please bro, don't say "he deserves it".

sug
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green4gulf


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
skatewood2 wrote:
SUG wrote:
"Ireland deserves this offseason to build ..." what was 2012 all about ...?
sug


Sug,
I get what you are talking about, but at the same time for every complaint that you have about the roster I can say that he picked the player that supposedly fit into the scheme at that time.

Now forward ahead another year and Ireland did a good job picking players for a brand new scheme without completely gutting the entire roster and starting over. I say he deserves one more year because if he can't improve upon what he did this past season then I agree he needs to go. But he is working with a new coaching staff who seems to know what they are doing better than the last coaching staff. We will see as the 2013 NFL season begins.


We've been stuck picking in the middle of the pack the past 5 years.
Sorry but that ain't gonna cut it, those are horrible draft numbers by any standards.

Where is the impact of Irelands draft pks cause I can't see it.
Saying you want to give him 1 more yr is one thing, but please bro, don't say "he deserves it".

sug


Agreed. I just can't understand how people continue to defend Ireland when there's personnell people around the league that are available and have the potential to make an impact on our team the way Ireland never has and probably never will.

As for a GM that will work with the HC.....there aren't very many that will not. To say Ireland found the player that fits the scheme is like saying, "I put my shoe on the correct foot".....it's not that hard, he has an entire scouting department at his disposal. Many posters on this forum do just as good or even better of a job every season with reasonable mocks.

Jeff Ireland has an exceptional position, there's only 31 others with the same job.....he gets exceptional pay.....and therefore we should demand exceptional results.
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Russ57


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think any rational dicussion has to center around who would replace him. Right now a lot of teams are looking for a GM. That isn't good for us. I think we agree that we want someone who would work with the current coaching staff. That limits choices a lot I'd think.

Frankly I don't know much about GM's who might be canidates. Jim Popp looks like an intersting possibility.
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Daryl


Joined: 26 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skate,

Some will never give him a fair shake. Its easy to play the blame game we see it all the time. The problem is that as a fan base its been so long since we've been good that ppl just lash out. Every move he makes is terrible is a common theme never mind anything right that he has done like getting the slary cap in order or NOT over spending on mediocre QBs like Kevin Kolb or Kyle Orton that? Not to mention five GMs BEFORE him failed to find a QB worth a damn but of course that couldn't be Ireland doing it was all Philpin & sherman blah blah blah.
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green4gulf


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daryl wrote:
Skate,

Some will never give him a fair shake. Its easy to play the blame game we see it all the time. The problem is that as a fan base its been so long since we've been good that ppl just lash out. Every move he makes is terrible is a common theme never mind anything right that he has done like getting the slary cap in order or NOT over spending on mediocre QBs like Kevin Kolb or Kyle Orton that? Not to mention five GMs BEFORE him failed to find a QB worth a damn but of course that couldn't be Ireland doing it was all Philpin & sherman blah blah blah.


In a split second of self reflection I realized that I may very well be guilty of never giving Ireland a fair shake. I do think his most recent draft was his best and that it was overall a pretty solid draft for now with the potential to get way better mainly based off the future performance of Tannehill.

Having said that; I just don't think solid and average is good enough to take us where we all want our favorite team to go. I believe Ireland will be retained for another season regardless of how hard I close my eyes and wish for a new GM to appear. I just hope that he hits BIG this Offseason, and can make me shut up about replacing him. Until then I'll keep whinning.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatewood2 wrote:


Sug,
I get what you are talking about, but at the same time for every complaint that you have about the roster I can say that he picked the player that supposedly fit into the scheme at that time.


If he had picked players right for the scheme we would have played well. Ireland was brought to Miami by Parcells because they were on the same page philosophically, and because he believed in Ireland. The Dolphins stunk because the players they took stunk. You can't blame it on the system when the system is essentially working for teams like the 49ers. If we had had the right players we would have been good.

skatewood2 wrote:

Now forward ahead another year and Ireland did a good job picking players for a brand new scheme without completely gutting the entire roster and starting over. I say he deserves one more year because if he can't improve upon what he did this past season then I agree he needs to go. But he is working with a new coaching staff who seems to know what they are doing better than the last coaching staff. We will see as the 2013 NFL season begins.


I totally agree that this is a far superior coaching staff. But I don't know what makes people believe that Ireland is suddenly able to pick winners when he didn't before. I also don't know which winners they are seeing in last years draft. Yes, Tannehill looks to be good (I haven't seen great yet, but I like some things about him), but beyond that I don't see it. Martin looks weak to me. Egnew was a whiff so far. Lamar Miller looked okay. BJ Cunningham was cut. Kheeston Randall was a ziltch. Olivier Vernon and Matthews are the only two that are surprises and really, the jury is out on the still. I wouldn't be surprised if either started or were cut in two years. I certainly hope for the latter.

While Tannehill looks as cool as the other side of the pillow in the pocket, he didn't turn any of our WR's in to scoring threats. I thought this offense didn't need #1's to succeed. I heard all off season that with selfless players at WR and a cool QB we could expect solid production from the group of guys we had. Tannehill had no WR score more than 1 TD. That's ALL SEASON. BRUTAL.

I'm not trying to rip Tannehill, but there were AT LEAST 3 rookie QB's that looked better than Tannehill and one of which that was selected well after him. Tannehill may improve leaps and bounds if we can ever find a pro bowl caliber WR again, but right now I think the jury is still out on Tannehill as well.

Ireland traded away our best offensive player for two 3rd rounders and one of them, so far, looks like a bust. He has done nothing to retain the services of our best offensive talent left on the roster in Reggie Bush. He also appears to have approved of a new offensive scheme that relegated a possible future hall of fame offensive tackle to a middle of the pack performer and set us back another couple of years on the o-line. He did nothing to address the WR position in the offseason. He didn't improve the pass rush last off season...again, despite it being a clear need last year too.

I don't get the man love for Ireland. Not in the least. People want stability here. I get it. In fact, if you go back on these pages to when Saban came aboard, you'll find the first person preaching for stability was me. I absolutely realize how essential it is. However, when you have the wrong guy for the job stability is the worse thing for the club. Ireland is the wrong guy. His track record of suck confirms it.

We just bought ourselves another year of suck and we also have a TON of cap room and a ton of picks for Ireland to really screw this club up. You watch, he's gonna be let go next off season and we will all be wondering why the hell Ross gave the man another draft and another year to destroy the future of the club.


THE ONLY things that give me hope are Philbin and Tannehill, and again, I believe the jury is out on both for the time being.
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Daryl


Joined: 26 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Merc Wrote:

I totally agree that this is a far superior coaching staff. But I don't know what makes people believe that Ireland is suddenly able to pick winners when he didn't before. I also don't know which winners they are seeing in last years draft. Yes, Tannehill looks to be good (I haven't seen great yet, but I like some things about him), but beyond that I don't see it. Martin looks weak to me. Egnew was a whiff so far. Lamar Miller looked okay. BJ Cunningham was cut. Kheeston Randall was a ziltch. Olivier Vernon and Matthews are the only two that are surprises and really, the jury is out on the still. I wouldn't be surprised if either started or were cut in two years. I certainly hope for the latter.


Quote:



I think first you NEED to put things into perspective for example Before Ireland ever showed up what was our record of drafting players like? Exactly it sucked and thats being nice for ten years we pick primarily bust and the roster was void of talent, as has been said you can't fix every problem in one or two off seasons. Before he arrived name one pro bowler/impact player on both sides of the Ball.

Then some judge him like he was calling the shots from the beginning but that was clearly not the case but if that what makes you validate your point then that's fine. Still you can NOT hide the fact that this team had no talent prior to his arrival. If your going to judge him as though he was the man from day one he has had more successes than failures.

When it comes to this latest draft class it's fine to take a glass is half empty view but there sure is ALLOT of potential in this class and none of them should be judged bust or success for another two years. I for one am very encouraged by what they have shown as rookies. Lamar Miller was OK yeah and he played the equivalent of maybe two full games, he doesn't have a BODY of work that's a tiny sample.

When it comes to Tannehill I think we're getting a little greedy/impatient. Remember he wasn't supposed to even start? It was supposed to be David Garrard or Moore? Do you remember he had 19 TOTAL starts at the position? Now we are critical because he didnt carry the offense and make the players around him better as a Rookie starter with 19 total starts at the position. Every other rookie QB that was drafted had more experience, give it some time experience is the best teacher. He is only going to get better
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ChosenOne3188


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only reason Tannyhill is in Miami is because of Sherman, not Ireland. You could even argue that Ireland didn't draft correctly by not trading back instead of what was thought to have been a reach.

Also, for those who argue about how we have so much cap room and so many picks...the only reason we have those are because we are losing our star/best players for crumbs and in some cases for nothing. If you guys would rather have a 2nd round pick, 2 3rd round picks, and cap space for Brandon Marshall, vontae Davis, and essentially all the free agents we will lose (jake long, Reggie bush), then Ireland has done a great job. In my mind, he has scrapped our best players for pennies and is still some how employed...We knew jake long wouldn't be good in a zone blocking scheme, why didn't Ireland know better enough to trade him while he had the chance to?
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DOLFAN016


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChosenOne3188 wrote:
The only reason Tannyhill is in Miami is because of Sherman, not Ireland. You could even argue that Ireland didn't draft correctly by not trading back instead of what was thought to have been a reach.

Also, for those who argue about how we have so much cap room and so many picks...the only reason we have those are because we are losing our star/best players for crumbs and in some cases for nothing. If you guys would rather have a 2nd round pick, 2 3rd round picks, and cap space for Brandon Marshall, vontae Davis, and essentially all the free agents we will lose (jake long, Reggie bush), then Ireland has done a great job. In my mind, he has scrapped our best players for pennies and is still some how employed...We knew jake long wouldn't be good in a zone blocking scheme, why didn't Ireland know better enough to trade him while he had the chance to?


I agree with you on Jake Long should've been traded last year when we could've gotten very good compensation for him. As for the others...would you rather we have nothing in return? I will take the picks and money toward guys that fit what our coach wants to do. Getting a second round for a hothead like Vonte Davis was a steal, IMO. We definitely should've tried to at least get a second round pick for Brandon Marshall, especially since he was traded after he had 4 TDs in the Pro Bowl. I know it's the Pro Bowl, but his value was high and we should've been selling high. But yes, I am happy we got something in return rather than nothing. Everybody says how we have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. That won't mean anything if we draft guys in those round that can't contribute (Phillip Merling, Patrick Turner, Pat White, Chad Henne, etc.) Hopefully Philbin will have a say in who we're taking because what I hear is that he is a very good talent evaluator and he'll know who most fits what we're trying to do.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daryl wrote:



I think first you NEED to put things into perspective for example Before Ireland ever showed up what was our record of drafting players like? Exactly it sucked and thats being nice for ten years we pick primarily bust and the roster was void of talent, as has been said you can't fix every problem in one or two off seasons. Before he arrived name one pro bowler/impact player on both sides of the Ball.


This logic makes no sense to me. I shouldn't judge Ireland harshly because we sucked before he got here? I don't get it. Please explain.


Daryl wrote:


Then some judge him like he was calling the shots from the beginning but that was clearly not the case but if that what makes you validate your point then that's fine. Still you can NOT hide the fact that this team had no talent prior to his arrival. If your going to judge him as though he was the man from day one he has had more successes than failures.



I'd like to see the evidence that Ireland didn't call shots when Parcells was in town. I've never once seen evidence that he had no say in the personnel department and since that was his job title it makes complete sense that his input would be profound and consistent. Parcells may have had the right to veto but Ireland had the job title of GM then and now. He doesn't have a good track record when Parcells was here and not a great one since he's left. Beyond that the only thing worth judging him by is our team record. His job is to build a winner. He has not done that and he has had ample time.



Daryl wrote:

When it comes to this latest draft class it's fine to take a glass is half empty view but there sure is ALLOT of potential in this class and none of them should be judged bust or success for another two years. I for one am very encouraged by what they have shown as rookies. Lamar Miller was OK yeah and he played the equivalent of maybe two full games, he doesn't have a BODY of work that's a tiny sample.

When it comes to Tannehill I think we're getting a little greedy/impatient. Remember he wasn't supposed to even start? It was supposed to be David Garrard or Moore? Do you remember he had 19 TOTAL starts at the position? Now we are critical because he didnt carry the offense and make the players around him better as a Rookie starter with 19 total starts at the position. Every other rookie QB that was drafted had more experience, give it some time experience is the best teacher. He is only going to get better


The current draft class looked okay this year. Not great. Not horrible. Ireland has been a mediocre drafter at best. You, me and any other jackass with a computer could hit in similar percentages of success as Ireland thus far. I want someone exceptional in the GM roll. Not someone who has a track record as lackluster as Ireland.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChosenOne3188 wrote:
The only reason Tannyhill is in Miami is because of Sherman, not Ireland. You could even argue that Ireland didn't draft correctly by not trading back instead of what was thought to have been a reach.

Also, for those who argue about how we have so much cap room and so many picks...the only reason we have those are because we are losing our star/best players for crumbs and in some cases for nothing. If you guys would rather have a 2nd round pick, 2 3rd round picks, and cap space for Brandon Marshall, vontae Davis, and essentially all the free agents we will lose (jake long, Reggie bush), then Ireland has done a great job. In my mind, he has scrapped our best players for pennies and is still some how employed...We knew jake long wouldn't be good in a zone blocking scheme, why didn't Ireland know better enough to trade him while he had the chance to?
You are completly wrong for saying the only reason we have Tannehill is because of mike sherman
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ChosenOne3188


Joined: 09 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan4life wrote:
ChosenOne3188 wrote:
The only reason Tannyhill is in Miami is because of Sherman, not Ireland. You could even argue that Ireland didn't draft correctly by not trading back instead of what was thought to have been a reach.

Also, for those who argue about how we have so much cap room and so many picks...the only reason we have those are because we are losing our star/best players for crumbs and in some cases for nothing. If you guys would rather have a 2nd round pick, 2 3rd round picks, and cap space for Brandon Marshall, vontae Davis, and essentially all the free agents we will lose (jake long, Reggie bush), then Ireland has done a great job. In my mind, he has scrapped our best players for pennies and is still some how employed...We knew jake long wouldn't be good in a zone blocking scheme, why didn't Ireland know better enough to trade him while he had the chance to?
You are completly wrong for saying the only reason we have Tannehill is because of mike sherman


You honestly don't believe that the Dolphins reached for Tannehill because of Sherman? If Sherman wasn't giving the front office rave reviews, we might have Flynn under center right now. We have no idea why we stopped going after Flynn other than speculation about how philbin didn't think he was that good.
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