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Ron Rivera Will Stay as Panthers Head Coach
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AJ23


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 624
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
This fanbase is immature at best. Really more like infantile in terms of analyzing football. To say this season is the same as last season is extremely simplistic and intellectually dishonest. This season's second half team played way better than last season's second half team. The records are nearly identical, but the record is where the similarities end. But, hey... it's better to punish the coach by firing him while the team is obviously improving in their play. Besides, the Panthers aren't perennial Super Bowl contenders so let's fire the coach every two years until they are. Rolling Eyes

I know it's a little harshly put, and it's not a popular thought process... So in the words of Torch, "Flame on!"


When some people make up their minds around here (and some make up their minds very quickly) they wont come off it and they wont change it.
I agree completely. I mean, isn't that what most of us humans do anyway? Laughing


Not all of us. I think many people stand back and allow their opinions to change as data changes. Others will stick to their guns no matter what.
Very well said. I tend to be more analytical, so maybe I fall into the first category (I hope so Laughing).
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29805
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ23 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
This fanbase is immature at best. Really more like infantile in terms of analyzing football. To say this season is the same as last season is extremely simplistic and intellectually dishonest. This season's second half team played way better than last season's second half team. The records are nearly identical, but the record is where the similarities end. But, hey... it's better to punish the coach by firing him while the team is obviously improving in their play. Besides, the Panthers aren't perennial Super Bowl contenders so let's fire the coach every two years until they are. Rolling Eyes

I know it's a little harshly put, and it's not a popular thought process... So in the words of Torch, "Flame on!"


When some people make up their minds around here (and some make up their minds very quickly) they wont come off it and they wont change it.
I agree completely. I mean, isn't that what most of us humans do anyway? Laughing


Not all of us. I think many people stand back and allow their opinions to change as data changes. Others will stick to their guns no matter what.
Very well said. I tend to be more analytical, so maybe I fall into the first category (I hope so Laughing).


You and I agree in here. Making us both fair, insightful and intelligent. Wink
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Panthers11


Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
This fanbase is immature at best. Really more like infantile in terms of analyzing football. To say this season is the same as last season is extremely simplistic and intellectually dishonest. This season's second half team played way better than last season's second half team. The records are nearly identical, but the record is where the similarities end. But, hey... it's better to punish the coach by firing him while the team is obviously improving in their play. Besides, the Panthers aren't perennial Super Bowl contenders so let's fire the coach every two years until they are. Rolling Eyes

I know it's a little harshly put, and it's not a popular thought process... So in the words of Torch, "Flame on!"


Rivera has done nothing to keep his job. He's been awful in close games or in games against solid teams. Hope you guys are happy, I don't like the way JR handled this and if he keeps Beane as GM, I'll be furious.


He's been awful in games against solid teams? We were in almost every game we played against solid teams. WTH are you talking about?

Let me ask you something. Because I HAVE to know. With a different coach, how many wins do we have the last 2 seasons? Just a guess on your part.. Say we got some coach you wanted last season (ignoring the fact you wanted Rivera). Whats the record? What kind of team did you see us as at the start of this season? A ten win team? What?


Who cares if we played them tough? We lost almost all of them. There we go again with the moral victories. What good teams have we beaten the last two years with their starting quarterback?


YOU SAID WE WERE AWFUL AGAINST THEM! We clearly weren't awful against them. Dont try and revise history. And dont try and move the goalposts on me either. You said we have been awful against solid teams. We havent. Admit it.

And I care if we played them tough. This is a process. You want instant gratification. I want steady improvement. What I want is more realistic. And it's what we are getting.


Sorry if I worded it wrong but this seems obvious; I meant awful records in those games, which is all that matters.
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billy hoyal


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zithers wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
I'm more of an optimist in that I think J.R. will try to find someone who can and will do the job, and will perhaps be a little more hands-off. It could be that he realized the mistake he (allegedly) made in meddling, and that Hurney became unredeemable (I know it's not a word, but for the lack of a better one) as he showed to be a very subjective puppet. Maybe he hopes to find someone with a little more of a backbone.

I hope so, and also realize that it's possible that this may not happen. :(


you think JR will find a GM with a backbone... after he's already decided who the coach is for himself? LMFAO.

we're gonna get another yes man just like hurney.



What GM candidate has the resume' that should give him the right to choose a HC right away. All of these possible GM's are going to be given their first GM job. I'm sure that it's been made clear to Rivera that there has to be more improvement next year(9-7 at worst), or changes will be made. It's not like the GM won't be able to get rid of him if the season goes bad. I'd much rather have a rookie GM just focus on the roster and fixing cap issues and not have to build an entire staff while he could be evaluating players. He's going to have make enough tough choices with our own players, while finding FA's and draft pick's. The new GM isn't stuck with him forever. Rivera gets another year, which he deserves.

Rivera took over a 2-14 team, with a one-month off-season, and a rookie QB who 90% of this board(including you) wanted no part of. He went 6-10 and was in all but 2 games, with the 5th best offense in the league. Pretty good for a team that couldn't get a 1st down in 2010. Plus, he lost Beason, Davis, immediately. Otah fell apart. That's 3 pro-bowl caliber players that he didn't have on top off all the other problems. Only Davis has been back.

This year was frustrating. No doubt. Chud overplayed the "zone-read" portion of the offense in the 1st half, and it failed. Losing Kalil, and a rookie LG playing like a rookie(1 good play...2 bad ones) didn't help. Once he corrected his obvious mistake, everything got much better. Now Chud's only problem is some situational play-calling that can be easily corrected. Much easier than a whole new offensive system with no guarantee it would be any better. After watching what happened with the over-use of the zone-read plays in the first half, I can't believe that any of our fans want anything to do with Chip Kelly. And the DEF improved over the course of the entire season., to a top 10-15 level. Even with numerous injuries.

So what coach was gonna be an improvement? Enough of one that would justify getting rid of a coach who has shown improvement in both seasons, and has had only 17 months with this team. I understand if they just kept playing like they were in the first half of the season, but every area of the team played a very good second half of the season. Doesn't matter who they played. If they were good you would just say they weren't trying. Rivera has made mistakes, no doubt. But he's also done plenty of good.

Bottom-line, you don't fire a coach without knowing who the next coach is going to be. And I don't see anyone who would be a guaranteed improvement over Rivera and his entire staff. Especially considering the team would have to start over with completely different schemes on both sides of the ball. Giving Rivera another year was the right decision. Think back to the days following the 2011 draft. What sort of expectations did any of you have for the next 2 years. Keep in mind that most of you thought Cam was a mistake. Would 6-10 and 7-9 been a reasonable when he started. I have a hard time believing that there were many of you that thought this team could get to those records with a project QB coming off a 2-14 season. Judge Rivera by his entire body of work and where it started at.
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29805
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
This fanbase is immature at best. Really more like infantile in terms of analyzing football. To say this season is the same as last season is extremely simplistic and intellectually dishonest. This season's second half team played way better than last season's second half team. The records are nearly identical, but the record is where the similarities end. But, hey... it's better to punish the coach by firing him while the team is obviously improving in their play. Besides, the Panthers aren't perennial Super Bowl contenders so let's fire the coach every two years until they are. Rolling Eyes

I know it's a little harshly put, and it's not a popular thought process... So in the words of Torch, "Flame on!"


Rivera has done nothing to keep his job. He's been awful in close games or in games against solid teams. Hope you guys are happy, I don't like the way JR handled this and if he keeps Beane as GM, I'll be furious.


He's been awful in games against solid teams? We were in almost every game we played against solid teams. WTH are you talking about?

Let me ask you something. Because I HAVE to know. With a different coach, how many wins do we have the last 2 seasons? Just a guess on your part.. Say we got some coach you wanted last season (ignoring the fact you wanted Rivera). Whats the record? What kind of team did you see us as at the start of this season? A ten win team? What?


Who cares if we played them tough? We lost almost all of them. There we go again with the moral victories. What good teams have we beaten the last two years with their starting quarterback?


YOU SAID WE WERE AWFUL AGAINST THEM! We clearly weren't awful against them. Dont try and revise history. And dont try and move the goalposts on me either. You said we have been awful against solid teams. We havent. Admit it.

And I care if we played them tough. This is a process. You want instant gratification. I want steady improvement. What I want is more realistic. And it's what we are getting.


Sorry if I worded it wrong but this seems obvious; I meant awful records in those games, which is all that matters.


It is not all that matters. This is real life. Not a Nike commercial.

What matters is we were a 2 win team and we are improving. We arent getting blown out. We are staying competetive. We are keeping games close. We played 5 division leaders in the first 9 games of the season. And all but one were a competetive game. We are on the right track. We are making headway. Of course we are taking our lumps. But the team and its staff are growing. We are competetive. We have fire. Next comes experience and execution.

2 win teams dont turn around and win 10 games a year or two later. It takes time.
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Panthers11


Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
This fanbase is immature at best. Really more like infantile in terms of analyzing football. To say this season is the same as last season is extremely simplistic and intellectually dishonest. This season's second half team played way better than last season's second half team. The records are nearly identical, but the record is where the similarities end. But, hey... it's better to punish the coach by firing him while the team is obviously improving in their play. Besides, the Panthers aren't perennial Super Bowl contenders so let's fire the coach every two years until they are. Rolling Eyes

I know it's a little harshly put, and it's not a popular thought process... So in the words of Torch, "Flame on!"


When some people make up their minds around here (and some make up their minds very quickly) they wont come off it and they wont change it.
I agree completely. I mean, isn't that what most of us humans do anyway? Laughing


Not all of us. I think many people stand back and allow their opinions to change as data changes. Others will stick to their guns no matter what.
Very well said. I tend to be more analytical, so maybe I fall into the first category (I hope so Laughing).


You and I agree in here. Making us both fair, insightful and intelligent. Wink


Thanks, JPep.
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

billy hoyal wrote:
Zithers wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
I'm more of an optimist in that I think J.R. will try to find someone who can and will do the job, and will perhaps be a little more hands-off. It could be that he realized the mistake he (allegedly) made in meddling, and that Hurney became unredeemable (I know it's not a word, but for the lack of a better one) as he showed to be a very subjective puppet. Maybe he hopes to find someone with a little more of a backbone.

I hope so, and also realize that it's possible that this may not happen. Sad


you think JR will find a GM with a backbone... after he's already decided who the coach is for himself? LMFAO.

we're gonna get another yes man just like hurney.



What GM candidate has the resume' that should give him the right to choose a HC right away. All of these possible GM's are going to be given their first GM job. I'm sure that it's been made clear to Rivera that there has to be more improvement next year(9-7 at worst), or changes will be made. It's not like the GM won't be able to get rid of him if the season goes bad. I'd much rather have a rookie GM just focus on the roster and fixing cap issues and not have to build an entire staff while he could be evaluating players. He's going to have make enough tough choices with our own players, while finding FA's and draft pick's. The new GM isn't stuck with him forever. Rivera gets another year, which he deserves.

Rivera took over a 2-14 team, with a one-month off-season, and a rookie QB who 90% of this board(including you) wanted no part of. He went 6-10 and was in all but 2 games, with the 5th best offense in the league. Pretty good for a team that couldn't get a 1st down in 2010. Plus, he lost Beason, Davis, immediately. Otah fell apart. That's 3 pro-bowl caliber players that he didn't have on top off all the other problems. Only Davis has been back.

This year was frustrating. No doubt. Chud overplayed the "zone-read" portion of the offense in the 1st half, and it failed. Losing Kalil, and a rookie LG playing like a rookie(1 good play...2 bad ones) didn't help. Once he corrected his obvious mistake, everything got much better. Now Chud's only problem is some situational play-calling that can be easily corrected. Much easier than a whole new offensive system with no guarantee it would be any better. After watching what happened with the over-use of the zone-read plays in the first half, I can't believe that any of our fans want anything to do with Chip Kelly. And the DEF improved over the course of the entire season., to a top 10-15 level. Even with numerous injuries.

So what coach was gonna be an improvement? Enough of one that would justify getting rid of a coach who has shown improvement in both seasons, and has had only 17 months with this team. I understand if they just kept playing like they were in the first half of the season, but every area of the team played a very good second half of the season. Doesn't matter who they played. If they were good you would just say they weren't trying. Rivera has made mistakes, no doubt. But he's also done plenty of good.

Bottom-line, you don't fire a coach without knowing who the next coach is going to be. And I don't see anyone who would be a guaranteed improvement over Rivera and his entire staff. Especially considering the team would have to start over with completely different schemes on both sides of the ball. Giving Rivera another year was the right decision. Think back to the days following the 2011 draft. What sort of expectations did any of you have for the next 2 years. Keep in mind that most of you thought Cam was a mistake. Would 6-10 and 7-9 been a reasonable when he started. I have a hard time believing that there were many of you that thought this team could get to those records with a project QB coming off a 2-14 season. Judge Rivera by his entire body of work and where it started at.


Certain people were absolutely convinced Chip Kelly was sent by the football gods to coach Cam Newton.

Nice post, btw.
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
This fanbase is immature at best. Really more like infantile in terms of analyzing football. To say this season is the same as last season is extremely simplistic and intellectually dishonest. This season's second half team played way better than last season's second half team. The records are nearly identical, but the record is where the similarities end. But, hey... it's better to punish the coach by firing him while the team is obviously improving in their play. Besides, the Panthers aren't perennial Super Bowl contenders so let's fire the coach every two years until they are. Rolling Eyes

I know it's a little harshly put, and it's not a popular thought process... So in the words of Torch, "Flame on!"


When some people make up their minds around here (and some make up their minds very quickly) they wont come off it and they wont change it.
I agree completely. I mean, isn't that what most of us humans do anyway? Laughing


Not all of us. I think many people stand back and allow their opinions to change as data changes. Others will stick to their guns no matter what.
Very well said. I tend to be more analytical, so maybe I fall into the first category (I hope so Laughing).


You and I agree in here. Making us both fair, insightful and intelligent. Wink


Thanks, JPep.


Hey man, you can be fair, insightful and intelligent too. Just start agreeing with us.
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Panthers11


Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
This fanbase is immature at best. Really more like infantile in terms of analyzing football. To say this season is the same as last season is extremely simplistic and intellectually dishonest. This season's second half team played way better than last season's second half team. The records are nearly identical, but the record is where the similarities end. But, hey... it's better to punish the coach by firing him while the team is obviously improving in their play. Besides, the Panthers aren't perennial Super Bowl contenders so let's fire the coach every two years until they are. Rolling Eyes

I know it's a little harshly put, and it's not a popular thought process... So in the words of Torch, "Flame on!"


Rivera has done nothing to keep his job. He's been awful in close games or in games against solid teams. Hope you guys are happy, I don't like the way JR handled this and if he keeps Beane as GM, I'll be furious.


He's been awful in games against solid teams? We were in almost every game we played against solid teams. WTH are you talking about?

Let me ask you something. Because I HAVE to know. With a different coach, how many wins do we have the last 2 seasons? Just a guess on your part.. Say we got some coach you wanted last season (ignoring the fact you wanted Rivera). Whats the record? What kind of team did you see us as at the start of this season? A ten win team? What?


Who cares if we played them tough? We lost almost all of them. There we go again with the moral victories. What good teams have we beaten the last two years with their starting quarterback?


YOU SAID WE WERE AWFUL AGAINST THEM! We clearly weren't awful against them. Dont try and revise history. And dont try and move the goalposts on me either. You said we have been awful against solid teams. We havent. Admit it.

And I care if we played them tough. This is a process. You want instant gratification. I want steady improvement. What I want is more realistic. And it's what we are getting.


Sorry if I worded it wrong but this seems obvious; I meant awful records in those games, which is all that matters.


It is not all that matters. This is real life. Not a Nike commercial.

What matters is we were a 2 win team and we are improving. We arent getting blown out. We are staying competetive. We are keeping games close. We played 5 division leaders in the first 9 games of the season. And all but one were a competetive game. We are on the right track. We are making headway. Of course we are taking our lumps. But the team and its staff are growing. We are competetive. We have fire. Next comes experience and execution.

2 win teams dont turn around and win 10 games a year or two later. It takes time.


I understand that.
But teams like Denver, Indy, Cindy, SF, Wash are all showing a quick turnaround is possible when things are done right.
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rjkilla


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just fear we are turning into the Carolina chargers. Tons of talent, playing below expectations, and a hey maybe next year attitude. I need to start hearing the right things from Rivera. Not hey we only got blown out twice this year. We're growing etc etc.
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fretgod99


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BringinDaPain wrote:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/01/05/3765389/ron-rivera-keeps-his-job-as-carolina.html


Panthers keep Rivera as HC.
Good. He deserves another year.
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panther dude


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want JPep and AJ to know how much I love them right now. Ive always felt that Ive grown more patient and fair minded from being a Timberwolves fan because I have had to deal with their rebuilding for so many years. That has made dealing with this Panthers rebuild a little easier but having to read the posts in this forum from all of these radical, impatient posters has made it hard for me to want to participate in our Panthers forum.

Basically what Im saying here is thank God for level heads Smile
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billy hoyal


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rjkilla wrote:
I just fear we are turning into the Carolina chargers. Tons of talent, playing below expectations, and a hey maybe next year attitude. I need to start hearing the right things from Rivera. Not hey we only got blown out twice this year. We're growing etc etc.



Tons of talent? We have some talented players, no doubt. But there were still huge weaknesses on this team during the season. OL being the main one. And that had an effect on every facet of the team. Cam's play, play-calling, RB's, even defense because we couldn't sustain(or finish) drives. After Kalil went down, it was a declining Gross, a very inconsistent rookie(who I still think will be very good in time) and a bunch of guys who shouldn't be starting anywhere. This includes Bell most of the time. And FS was a disaster. CB's were rookie and waiver pick-ups. DT were average and injured. There was a good reason that CAR didn't have a player make the Pro Bowl roster.

Your expectations were a product of what Rivera accomplished in 2011. What would your expectations been if Cam doesn't have a historic rookie season and we just finish 4-12. And at the beginning of the year, if I told you that Kalil, Beason, and Gamble, and Stewart would miss most of the season, would you still have expected a playoff team?
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
This fanbase is immature at best. Really more like infantile in terms of analyzing football. To say this season is the same as last season is extremely simplistic and intellectually dishonest. This season's second half team played way better than last season's second half team. The records are nearly identical, but the record is where the similarities end. But, hey... it's better to punish the coach by firing him while the team is obviously improving in their play. Besides, the Panthers aren't perennial Super Bowl contenders so let's fire the coach every two years until they are. Rolling Eyes

I know it's a little harshly put, and it's not a popular thought process... So in the words of Torch, "Flame on!"


Rivera has done nothing to keep his job. He's been awful in close games or in games against solid teams. Hope you guys are happy, I don't like the way JR handled this and if he keeps Beane as GM, I'll be furious.


He's been awful in games against solid teams? We were in almost every game we played against solid teams. WTH are you talking about?

Let me ask you something. Because I HAVE to know. With a different coach, how many wins do we have the last 2 seasons? Just a guess on your part.. Say we got some coach you wanted last season (ignoring the fact you wanted Rivera). Whats the record? What kind of team did you see us as at the start of this season? A ten win team? What?


Who cares if we played them tough? We lost almost all of them. There we go again with the moral victories. What good teams have we beaten the last two years with their starting quarterback?


YOU SAID WE WERE AWFUL AGAINST THEM! We clearly weren't awful against them. Dont try and revise history. And dont try and move the goalposts on me either. You said we have been awful against solid teams. We havent. Admit it.

And I care if we played them tough. This is a process. You want instant gratification. I want steady improvement. What I want is more realistic. And it's what we are getting.


Sorry if I worded it wrong but this seems obvious; I meant awful records in those games, which is all that matters.


It is not all that matters. This is real life. Not a Nike commercial.

What matters is we were a 2 win team and we are improving. We arent getting blown out. We are staying competetive. We are keeping games close. We played 5 division leaders in the first 9 games of the season. And all but one were a competetive game. We are on the right track. We are making headway. Of course we are taking our lumps. But the team and its staff are growing. We are competetive. We have fire. Next comes experience and execution.

2 win teams dont turn around and win 10 games a year or two later. It takes time.


I understand that.
But teams like Denver, Indy, Cindy, SF, Wash are all showing a quick turnaround is possible when things are done right.


I want you to think about it. San Fransisco showed a quick turnaround? It took them years to turn it around. Years. 2 wins. 4 wins. 7 wins. 4 wins. 7 wins. 8 wins. 6 wins. THEN they started winning.

Indy tanked their season. And also played the weakest schedule in the NFL. That isnt a guess. Thats by the numbers.

Denver was a .500 team (in the AFCW) for 6 seasons before they signed a HoF QB and racked up some wins.

This is the number of Washington Redskin wins every season since 2006.
5
9
8
4
6
5
Quick turnaround for the skins?

And Cincy is historically up and down. The last 8 seasons have been no different.

It takes time.
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Panthers11


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
AJ23 wrote:
This fanbase is immature at best. Really more like infantile in terms of analyzing football. To say this season is the same as last season is extremely simplistic and intellectually dishonest. This season's second half team played way better than last season's second half team. The records are nearly identical, but the record is where the similarities end. But, hey... it's better to punish the coach by firing him while the team is obviously improving in their play. Besides, the Panthers aren't perennial Super Bowl contenders so let's fire the coach every two years until they are. Rolling Eyes

I know it's a little harshly put, and it's not a popular thought process... So in the words of Torch, "Flame on!"


Rivera has done nothing to keep his job. He's been awful in close games or in games against solid teams. Hope you guys are happy, I don't like the way JR handled this and if he keeps Beane as GM, I'll be furious.


He's been awful in games against solid teams? We were in almost every game we played against solid teams. WTH are you talking about?

Let me ask you something. Because I HAVE to know. With a different coach, how many wins do we have the last 2 seasons? Just a guess on your part.. Say we got some coach you wanted last season (ignoring the fact you wanted Rivera). Whats the record? What kind of team did you see us as at the start of this season? A ten win team? What?


Who cares if we played them tough? We lost almost all of them. There we go again with the moral victories. What good teams have we beaten the last two years with their starting quarterback?


YOU SAID WE WERE AWFUL AGAINST THEM! We clearly weren't awful against them. Dont try and revise history. And dont try and move the goalposts on me either. You said we have been awful against solid teams. We havent. Admit it.

And I care if we played them tough. This is a process. You want instant gratification. I want steady improvement. What I want is more realistic. And it's what we are getting.


Sorry if I worded it wrong but this seems obvious; I meant awful records in those games, which is all that matters.


It is not all that matters. This is real life. Not a Nike commercial.

What matters is we were a 2 win team and we are improving. We arent getting blown out. We are staying competetive. We are keeping games close. We played 5 division leaders in the first 9 games of the season. And all but one were a competetive game. We are on the right track. We are making headway. Of course we are taking our lumps. But the team and its staff are growing. We are competetive. We have fire. Next comes experience and execution.

2 win teams dont turn around and win 10 games a year or two later. It takes time.


I understand that.
But teams like Denver, Indy, Cindy, SF, Wash are all showing a quick turnaround is possible when things are done right.


I want you to think about it. San Fransisco showed a quick turnaround? It took them years to turn it around. Years. 2 wins. 4 wins. 7 wins. 4 wins. 7 wins. 8 wins. 6 wins. THEN they started winning.

Indy tanked their season. And also played the weakest schedule in the NFL. That isnt a guess. Thats by the numbers.

Denver was a .500 team (in the AFCW) for 6 seasons before they signed a HoF QB and racked up some wins.

This is the number of Washington Redskin wins every season since 2006.
5
9
8
4
6
5
Quick turnaround for the skins?

And Cincy is historically up and down. The last 8 seasons have been no different.

It takes time.


I'm talking about new regimes. A turn around for those teams took 1 year.
If we don't make the playoffs next year or get 8 or 9 wins do you keep him?
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