You are currently viewing the old forums. We have upgraded to a new NFL Forum.
This old forum is being left as a read-only archive.
Please update your bookmarks to our new forum at forums.footballsfuture.com.


 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Stadium Saga Part XIII: Blowing the Roof Off
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 10, 11, 12  Next
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Minnesota Vikings
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TheGreatZepp


Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 2894
Location: Brookfield, WI
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
[UMN] wrote:
I just hope they design the stadium to be just as good of a MLS stadium as an NFL stadium.

what's a soccer stadium need to be high shelf?
Lately the trend has been that NFL and MLS are incompatible when it comes to sharing a stadium so don't get your hopes up. Part of the growth of MLS has been getting all of their teams specifically built stadiums and are down three shared venues in Seattle, Boston and Washington. MLS likes smaller stadiums that don't seem so cavernous when half(or considerably less) full. However since Columbus kicked off the MLS stadium building craze, what's looked for to make a MLS stadium great has changed considerably. For one, NFL likes 70,000 capacity as a benchmark, MLS likes 20,000. NFL field is 53 yards wide, FIFA wants 75 yards wide. There's a host of other things but as it seems MLS stadiums are bad financial business right now, only 3 teams are turning a profit the last I heard, and even then the Columbus stadium is so obsolete at 15 years old they want a new one while others are having varying degrees of success with their stadiums. With margins being so thin though, it's easy to see why they don't want to share stadiums, oversized stadiums cost more to operate on gameday even if they have sections closed.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Purplexing


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 5339
Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Purplexing wrote:
Thus implying the other 10% must be the largest, most profitable concerts....

just because a concert event or act is large doesn't mean it's always profitable. read up on all the money Pink Floyd lost touring.


Purplexing wrote:
There is a BIG difference between revenue and profit.


The Rolling Bones lost money touring?

The Floyd is an exception due to exceptional lighting and visual effects excesses wanted by whoever wanted to do them. Groups or acts who follow after them should take heed of the lesson learned by excesses in spending on special effects, etc.

Back to the stadium; the Metrodome is a perfectly plausible site for non-football events after the Vikings leave for another venue.

But arguing that a SB is economically beneficial to a city has been disproven by considering EXPENSES, such as those incurred by The Pink Floyd in producing an excessive show beyond the show. It is also discussed in the January 2013 article hosted by CBS Money Watch in the link I provided on the page prior to this one.

Estimates of the economic benefits to a host community made by the producers of SBs are definitely biased, as per CBS Money Watch's independent study. The same bias is seen in the estimates of e-pull tab revenues by the projection maker.
_________________

When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Purplexing


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 5339
Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreatZepp wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
[UMN] wrote:
I just hope they design the stadium to be just as good of a MLS stadium as an NFL stadium.

what's a soccer stadium need to be high shelf?
Lately the trend has been that NFL and MLS are incompatible when it comes to sharing a stadium so don't get your hopes up. Part of the growth of MLS has been getting all of their teams specifically built stadiums and are down three shared venues in Seattle, Boston and Washington. MLS likes smaller stadiums that don't seem so cavernous when half(or considerably less) full. However since Columbus kicked off the MLS stadium building craze, what's looked for to make a MLS stadium great has changed considerably. For one, NFL likes 70,000 capacity as a benchmark, MLS likes 20,000. NFL field is 53 yards wide, FIFA wants 75 yards wide. There's a host of other things but as it seems MLS stadiums are bad financial business right now, only 3 teams are turning a profit the last I heard, and even then the Columbus stadium is so obsolete at 15 years old they want a new one while others are having varying degrees of success with their stadiums. With margins being so thin though, it's easy to see why they don't want to share stadiums, oversized stadiums cost more to operate on gameday even if they have sections closed.


The bold section above buttresses my point that people/ entities who provide projections of the economic benefits of certain sports activities by projecting revenues are biased because the 'benefits' they project often don't consider the costs of generating that revenue.
_________________

When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Purplexing


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 5339
Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Purplexing wrote:
.... I'm just wondering what people THINK is the next best funding method.

It's a valid question.

DEFINITELY valid. i said that once before too, calling it "pertinent" when you asked then.

but you're unlikely to get a viable answer here. again, because of our lack of understanding of the details of legislative funding.


This ^ implies you think it is a good idea that the same legislators who determined that e-pull tabs were the BEST funding mechanism should now revise the revenue source ( after only 5% of the projected revenue has been realized) despite the flaw in the iterative process they used in 2012 to determine the best funding method. Right?

Or, do you think we need more info on the projection techniques used by the gaming industry entity that provided the 'unbiased' projections to the legislators?

Or, do you think we need the details that were provided to a Big 4 Accounting Firm to scrutinize before the revenue source was selected and a nearly $1B bill was voted upon? I assume a Big 4 Accounting firm was brought in to audit the 'independent' projections. Am I right?

But, since the bill has passed, there's no reason to discuss the flawed projections nor doubt that those same legislators can resolve the matter of revenue shortfalls. Right?
_________________

When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 28565
Location: Brownbackistan
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreatZepp wrote:
I read this to get up to date on the progress for the stadium and read page after page of garbage...



To actually contribute something.


You can contribute by leaving if all you can initially state is that our posts are garbage. Either contribute without disrespect or don't come in here and post at all.
_________________


Thx to Lil Uno!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Eastern Walrus


Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 3147
Location: on safari
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For as long as I have been coming to this forum and discussing the stadium people have been worried about the parking lot they want to drink in at 9 am

Maybe I'm too young or something, I could care less about tail gating... and I live downtown
_________________
2013 Adopt a Minnesota Viking - Xavier Rhodes - CB - #29

XBL - Eastern Walrus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vikes_Bolts1228


Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 4980
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eastern Walrus wrote:
For as long as I have been coming to this forum and discussing the stadium people have been worried about the parking lot they want to drink in at 9 am

Maybe I'm too young or something, I could care less about tail gating... and I live downtown


I'm 24 and I think that the tailgating is 1/2 the experience of going to the games. Heck, there's people in our tailgate lot that don't even go inside to watch the games. They set up TVs and what not and tailgate from 7am until the game is over.

Ideally, I would have loved a suburban Vikings stadium (Arden Hills) to tailgate like my dad did back at the Met. But it is what it is and people will always find a way to tailgate around the Dome and "Favre Field" when it's done.
_________________
Somewhat proud Minnesota Vikings season ticket holder...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vikes_Bolts1228


Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 4980
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Minnesota Vikings are due to deliver a preliminary stadium design in about a month, and the best guess is that will include a fixed, non-retractable roof -- a decision that would end years of discussion about the fundamental nature of how football is played and watched in Minnesota.

Nothing has been finalized, but my sense is that the cost of a fully retractable roof -- between $25 million and $50 million depending on technology, plus annual operation and maintenance costs -- will be deemed too high for a part-time feature. A relatively tight $975 million budget and ongoing revenue struggles


http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/55203/vikings-stadium-doubting-a-retractable-roof
_________________
Somewhat proud Minnesota Vikings season ticket holder...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 28565
Location: Brownbackistan
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have thought for some time that probably the retractable window will be what they end up with...so, it will give them some sort of sense of an outdoors feel without actually being outdoors. So, in the early part of the season, they'll be able to let in some of the fresh air (I don't know what kind of wind-impact that will create), but the rain/snow games won't happen.
_________________


Thx to Lil Uno!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Vikes_Bolts1228


Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 4980
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
So, in the early part of the season, they'll be able to let in some of the fresh air (I don't know what kind of wind-impact that will create), but the rain/snow games won't happen.


Exactly...so then why spend the extra $50mil for a roof that will be closed 90% of the time?

A LARGE retractable wall on the west side (the side that will over-look downtown) is all you need.
_________________
Somewhat proud Minnesota Vikings season ticket holder...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Purplexing


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 5339
Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruh roh! Bing-no!

http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/203126661.html

The first electronic bingo games aimed at helping to fund the Vikings stadium have hit a technical glitch and will be shut down until the problem is fixed, according to a report at the Minnesota’s Gambling Control Board meeting Monday.

....................

...so the games were pulled and sent back to the testing laboratory, said John Burger, spokesman for e-tab Manufacturing, the St. Paul-based company producing the games.


..................

The electronic pulltabs sales have fallen dramatically short of projections for funding the Vikings stadium. But Burger, and many charities, believe the bingo games — with $1,000-plus jackpots — could catch on.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fool me once, shame on you...
_________________

When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Purplexing


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 5339
Location: Outside Valhalla, looking in.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
I have thought for some time that probably the retractable window will be what they end up with...so, it will give them some sort of sense of an outdoors feel without actually being outdoors. So, in the early part of the season, they'll be able to let in some of the fresh air (I don't know what kind of wind-impact that will create), but the rain/snow games won't happen.


So, other NFL cities get convertibles while Minneapolis gets a hatchback?


Confused
_________________

When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Klomp


Moderator
Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 13157
Location: Marshall
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purplexing wrote:
disaacs wrote:
I have thought for some time that probably the retractable window will be what they end up with...so, it will give them some sort of sense of an outdoors feel without actually being outdoors. So, in the early part of the season, they'll be able to let in some of the fresh air (I don't know what kind of wind-impact that will create), but the rain/snow games won't happen.


So, other NFL cities get convertibles while Minneapolis gets a hatchback?


Confused


Thats the same type of retractable feature that the Colts have
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vike daddy


Most Valuable Poster (2nd Ballot)

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 82974
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klomp wrote:
Thats the same type of retractable feature that the Colts have

how about a reeeeally big clear plastic shower curtain?
_________________


Everson Griffen: “We can be special. But it’s up to us.”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AndyJ1134


Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 1408
Location: South Metro
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Thats the same type of retractable feature that the Colts have

how about a reeeeally big clear plastic shower curtain?


For how absolutely hilarious it would be. Im 100% for it.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Minnesota Vikings All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 10, 11, 12  Next
Page 11 of 12

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group