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raidr4life
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 2163
Location: Fresno, California
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 Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| holyghost wrote: | | raidr4life wrote: | | Im not a Mckenzie hater but Berg was our 1st pick in the draft and he had an extra day to think about it, and now the could be useless and there were gems to still be had. Vontaze Burfict looks like he would have been worth a 3rd round pick now, guy had 1st round talent. |
Even the team Burfict ended up on didn't deem him worthy of a pick in any round. Can't hate on McKenzie for that one unless you're intent on hating on all GMs and scouts in the whole league. |
My point is with it being our first pick and extra day to think about it he pick a guy who may be of no use to us now 1 year later, thats a black eye. But maybe Berg can play in a power scheme I dont know, so could turn out to be a good pick, but right now it looks as if he picked him specificly for the zbs and now who knows.
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12568
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | RaidersAreOne wrote: | | I wonder what the heck is gonna happen to Berg now that the ZBS is gone (hopefully). Does he have what it takes to play in a PBS? |
Probably not. Get ready to listen to the McKenzie haters running rampant. |
Is Bergstrom really a crucial key to our success? Not even top 20 as far as issues or players go, so whatever happens to him is not very relevant. |
Trust me. The McKenzie haters will make sure it's a big deal.  If every pick isn't a star as a rookie, he deserves to be fired, period. |
id blame knapp before mckenzie. this whole zbs kinda forced reg to pick guys like berg
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G
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 3116
Location: Hollywierd
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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We don't even know what were running and I for one am DAMN HAPPY we got McKenzie when we did. He'd be high on the GM list with 7 being fired so far!!! We are lucky and I'm willing to give him 3-5 seasons before getting the pitchforks out.  |
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19018
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| raidr4life wrote: | | Im not a Mckenzie hater but Berg was our 1st pick in the draft and he had an extra day to think about it, and now the could be useless and there were gems to still be had. Vontaze Burfict looks like he would have been worth a 3rd round pick now, guy had 1st round talent. |
And Burfict had too many off field concerns. Zimmer is the type of coach he needed. I don't think the Raiders pull that out of him that early.
Let's not forget, every team passed on him multiple times. Oline needed work, they draft it. Time will tell if he pans out.
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19018
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | RaidersAreOne wrote: | | I wonder what the heck is gonna happen to Berg now that the ZBS is gone (hopefully). Does he have what it takes to play in a PBS? |
Probably not. Get ready to listen to the McKenzie haters running rampant. |
Is Bergstrom really a crucial key to our success? Not even top 20 as far as issues or players go, so whatever happens to him is not very relevant. |
Trust me. The McKenzie haters will make sure it's a big deal. If every pick isn't a star as a rookie, he deserves to be fired, period. |
id blame knapp before mckenzie. this whole zbs kinda forced reg to pick guys like berg |
Exactly. They decided on a coach and philosophy and went 0-2 implementing talent to it with Bergstrom and Brisel.
Right idea. Implement the scheme and improve the Oline for it. Obvious the eye was towards the future. Knapp proved instantly there was no future in him as a play caller.
Live and learn.
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4150
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | RaidersAreOne wrote: | | I wonder what the heck is gonna happen to Berg now that the ZBS is gone (hopefully). Does he have what it takes to play in a PBS? |
Probably not. Get ready to listen to the McKenzie haters running rampant. |
Is Bergstrom really a crucial key to our success? Not even top 20 as far as issues or players go, so whatever happens to him is not very relevant. |
Trust me. The McKenzie haters will make sure it's a big deal. If every pick isn't a star as a rookie, he deserves to be fired, period. |
id blame knapp before mckenzie. this whole zbs kinda forced reg to pick guys like berg |
Exactly. They decided on a coach and philosophy and went 0-2 implementing talent to it with Bergstrom and Brisel.
Right idea. Implement the scheme and improve the Oline for it. Obvious the eye was towards the future. Knapp proved instantly there was no future in him as a play caller.
Live and learn. |
I'd give both players another chance. Not only was Knapp fired, but so was his offensive line coach. When I called out Knapp earlier in the season, I mentioned how much he was missing Tom Cable. The ZBS can work if you have the right coaches implementing it. It's hard to evaluate players when they're not being coached well and the play calling is so poor.
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12568
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | RaidersAreOne wrote: | | I wonder what the heck is gonna happen to Berg now that the ZBS is gone (hopefully). Does he have what it takes to play in a PBS? |
Probably not. Get ready to listen to the McKenzie haters running rampant. |
Is Bergstrom really a crucial key to our success? Not even top 20 as far as issues or players go, so whatever happens to him is not very relevant. |
Trust me. The McKenzie haters will make sure it's a big deal. If every pick isn't a star as a rookie, he deserves to be fired, period. |
id blame knapp before mckenzie. this whole zbs kinda forced reg to pick guys like berg |
Exactly. They decided on a coach and philosophy and went 0-2 implementing talent to it with Bergstrom and Brisel.
Right idea. Implement the scheme and improve the Oline for it. Obvious the eye was towards the future. Knapp proved instantly there was no future in him as a play caller.
Live and learn. |
but if we go PBS what do we do with berg and bris
imo i think berg can play OG in a PBS
bris is just a bum to me who id cut
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3745
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:34 am Post subject: |
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I don't think Bergs will ever be more than depth, not flexible enough to be a full-time OG but not long enough to be an NFL OT. Brisiel will be serviceable for his duration with the Raiders, ie: Carlisle 2.0. Look at the rosters of SuperBowl winners over the last 10 years, you don't need great OG play to win consistently.
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DOCLEW 28
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 10586
Location: East Oakland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| holyghost wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | RaidersAreOne wrote: | | I wonder what the heck is gonna happen to Berg now that the ZBS is gone (hopefully). Does he have what it takes to play in a PBS? |
Probably not. Get ready to listen to the McKenzie haters running rampant. |
Is Bergstrom really a crucial key to our success? Not even top 20 as far as issues or players go, so whatever happens to him is not very relevant. |
I would say absolutely critical. You never want to waste a quality player. And he appears to have the size and strength to handle either scheme even though he is adept at the ZBS. At worst he could be a cheap alternative as a backup if he cannot master the PBS. One less position to fill and one less draft pick to use.
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DOCLEW 28
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 10586
Location: East Oakland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | I also believe Bergs is in part the reason Wiz 1.0 is no longer on the staff. |
Not true at all. Wiz was not selected by Allen and he saw the handwriting on the wall. He was not going to have a real place on the staff as an assistant OL coach. I wonder if they give him a call now. LOL!!!
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dawsonleery
Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Wiz knew in the off-season he wanted nothing to do with Knapp, Pollack and their zone-blocking scheme, so he retired and for guys like Bergstrom and Nix, I think they will be fine in a PBS. Lets them compete for jobs in TC. I really like Nix, he's a mauler. |
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Rolni
Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 2162
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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I think Berg and Nix could thrive in any scheme. They could be solid OG's in a mixed scheme, what most of the teams run anyway...
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DOCLEW 28
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 10586
Location: East Oakland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. We may switch up from play to play or series to series based on down and distance or other situations. Having guys that can do both is a plus. And they both have the size and ability so all of this stuff will be hashed out in camp.
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Oaktown
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 3125
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Wiz left cause of knapp and pollack were buddies and they wanted things done their way.
IMO bergstorm can play in any scheme. I though he and nix both looked good. Oak needs a good ol coach to help them progress. |
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DOCLEW 28
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 10586
Location: East Oakland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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They were better in the run game. Their pass pro needed a lot of work.
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