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AZBearsFan


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Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Athelite wrote:
I've always loved Jay back to his denver days, but he really is starting to wear on me. Why can't he have better stats than a damn rookie for crying out loud?? I mean 3000 yards?? In this day and age, that is pathetic for a starting QB. I know I know, what if he had a good offensive line or receivers, well he finally got his receiver and he didn't put up really big numbers and Aaron Rodgers has had a horrible offensive line and still puts up mind-blowing numbers.

I really wonder what kind of money Cutler is expecting becuase he sure as hell hasn't earned a top 10 QB contract going by the numbers..
You need to go back to the " is Jay the answer" thread. Jay's yardage totals are pretty much all about the # of attempts.

Yeah, Stafford threw for 1900+ more yards than Jay, but also attempted 293 more passes. Jay averaged more yards per attempt (6.98 to 6.81), and Stafford had just 1 more TD.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7906
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
A few plays throughout the season cost us the chance to control our own destiny. I'm upset, but let's not lose sight that we just went 10-6. It sux that we are out, but let's not act like we just went 4-12 either.
Two games were totally thrown away. This is not an uncommon situation with Smith.

The great coaches pay attention to even the smallest details. Their teams do not make the same mistakes over and over. Smith can't even make sure the plays are in on time. He can't win unless the defense scores. He can't win if behind at the half. He doesn't even understand how deferring increases the chance of being behind at the half and therefore losing. His teams rarely play complete games. He is by NO means a good enough coach for the Chicago Bears.

We barely beat the stupidest team in the league today by two points. One of the stupidest teams in league history.

Two terrible decisions cost us the playoffs. Not kicking the field goal against Minnesota and not running a QB sneak in the Seattle and Minnesota games. Inexcusable.

It does not matter how good your roster is when games often come down to the coach's decision and the wrong ones are made.

Nine years of mediocrity is enough.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7906
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
abdi7451 wrote:
I'm mad.


I am not even mad.

I am embarrassed and disappointed and I cannot continue to care so much about a team where I have no faith in their leadership.
How can you be disappointed when you know what the problem is? I knew the playoffs were gone when we lost to Minnesota.

The only reason Smith would be retained is because they don't have anyone they want to replace him this year but I would not be too worried about that.

In addition, not being in the playoffs is the standard position of Lovie Smith teams. Making the playoffs is the exception not the rule.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
abdi7451 wrote:
I'm mad.


I am not even mad.

I am embarrassed and disappointed and I cannot continue to care so much about a team where I have no faith in their leadership.
How can you be disappointed when you know what the problem is? I knew the playoffs were gone when we lost to Minnesota.

The only reason Smith would be retained is because they don't have anyone they want to replace him this year but I would not be too worried about that.

In addition, not being in the playoffs is the standard position of Lovie Smith teams. Making the playoffs is the exception not the rule.


Your not allowed to say that.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RidiculousJames wrote:
The title of this thread makes me depressed Sad

Gut-wrenching and heartbreaking are the words I would use to describe today's events.

I've not given my take on the Lovie situation on here, mostly because I hadn't made my mind up. But I'm going on the record now as I want him to stay. Firing a 10-6 coach would be extremely harsh, I also think too much is being made of the 7-1 start and the run of losses. We were never a great team, we are just a good team, and at the start of the year we played a lot of average or below teams, in the run of defeats we played a lot of above average teams. Just look at the six teams we lost to:
Packers x2 (11-5)
Vikings (10-6)
Seahawks (11-5)
49ers (11-4-1)
Texans (12-4)

We were always going to struggle against those teams, it just so happened that we played the majority of those in quick succession, making it look like we had completely lost it and fallen apart. If we had won a couple, lost one, won a couple, lost one... etc all year then I think the mood around the place would be much better, it's just the way the schedule fell this year.

I'm also a believer in that you get nowhere in sport without continuity. Yes I know some of you will say that Lovie has been here for years and we have tried the continuity route, but firing a head coach following 10-6 would be a poor decision. We should continue with Lovie for 2013, see if the team can improve (which I believe it can) and we should still make the Playoffs next year.

Basically, the 7-1 start and winning against poor teams heightened everyone's expectations. I predicted at the start of the year we would go 10-6 and we have done, to not get in to the Playoffs after 10 wins is extremely unlucky and Lovie deserves another shot in 2013.

Although I do think Mike Tice needs to go. I would be worried about Cutler having to learn a new playbook again but this offense is just putrid and we would be better off with a new OC. That is the one change I would make.
The Bears will never have a good offense under Smith much less one of the best. He is HALF a coach, we need a complete coach.

His teams collapse in December EVERY YEAR. His teams cannot win when behind at the half. His teams NEVER have a good offense NO MATTER WHO IS THE OC.

There is NO reason to keep a coach whose teams are out of the playoffs twice as often as they are in them, a coach without the slightest clue about offense.

Continuity in ineptitude is NOT good. Winning organizations NEVER give such a mediocre coach ten years. Never.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Sr7252 wrote:
That's a good point, Lovie hasn't lead us into the playoffs much and for that I think he needs to be kicked out.

If Reid is getting fired in a season where he's lost his son, I don't see the justification for keeping Lovie.
Its best for everybody for Andy and the Eagles to part ways. His voice has gone stale in the locker room, and his management of the team caused the tremendous downfall they've suffered in the last 2 years. It's just time there.

The Bears on the other hand are the best team not in the playoffs, they improved 2 games over last years record, Lovie still has not finished below 7-9 since 2004 and in the last 3 seasons the Bears are 29-17. If you look at games where the starting QB has been in place, that becomes 26-12.

Everyone needs to remember, Emery stated his evaluation would be based on our progression towards achieving our goals, there is no question we progressed this year, and we also found out that our OL is a big detriment to the team, but we have the skill position players in place on the offense.
Our offense did not progress at all and never will with a dead weight on the offense which Smith is. His offenses always suck, year in year out.
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CadeMcGrossman


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

9 seasons. 3 playoff seasons. 3 playoff wins among them. Horrendous offense 8/9 seasons. There's no sane instance where Emery and McCaskey look at this and go 'Yeah, let's keep him'.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nads786 wrote:
I think we need to identify if this is a coaching issue or a talent issue on offense. Do you believe someone else could produce a better result? Or Tice could produce a better unit with more talent?

I've been thinking about it and I think with Oline talent we could have been a lot better on offense. If you recall Tice was very candid after the SF game saying he can't game plan when his OTs are so inconsistent going from playing average to terrible.

I think we should give Tice another shot with a totally revamped Oline.

We need:

Volmer and at least 2 draft picks towards the Oline and another to TE.
None of that would do the slightest good with Smith still here.

His decisions can throw away games no matter who is on the roster.

He had as much to do with this roster as Angelo and cannot evaluate offensive talent.

We cannot afford half a coach, we need a complete coach.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Look at today's game. We played the stupidest team in the league and barely ecked out a victory, OVER THE STUPIDEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE.

FWIW New England almost lost to lowly Jacksonville last week, and this Detroit team is far more talented than the Jaguars.

I can see the arguments on both sides and really I'm not sure which side I fall upon even now that the season is over. On one hand he has to be accountable for the team missing the postseason but on the other his defense continues to be exceptional and that is certainly something we don't want to just throw away either. IMO he's a good coach but not a great one. It shouldn't be discounted that the biggest area of failure on this year's squad (the OL) was the one area Emery didn't address this offseason.

Emery could go two ways here - either just fire everyone and build the team his way, or continue to build up upon what was here when he arrived plus what he did last offseason and keep building where the deficiencies were in the team he inherited. For me, if he is fired then it can't be just for the sake of firing him - we need to hit with our next hire, and whether that coach is an offensive or defensive guy they absolutely need to do a better job than Lovie has done in hiring a coordinator for the other side of the ball who can make up for his deficiencies.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
The conversation starts and ends with,

We have been to the playoffs 1 time in 6 years that is 16% of the time.
No the conversation starts w/, one of the 3 winningest coaches in team history, followed by never finished below 7-9 since his players were in place and has finished above .500 5/9 years. Then you get to the 1 playoff appearance since 2006, and you have to examine the circumstances behind it. It easily could have been 4 out of the last 6 years as well. Then you have to look at the personnel that's been on the field and ask if the field was even or not. Then you quickly realize it wasn't, that what Lovie did w/ inferior talent the vast majority of his time as an HC has been remarkable and you would be very foolish to let go of a top 5-10 coach.
Lovie is the greatest .500 coach in Bears history but has a team out of the playoffs twice as often as he gets it there, A TEAM HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN BUILDING.

The lack of talent is on his head whether you will admit it or not.
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CadeMcGrossman


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A team with an average offense would have scored 3 TDs on those 4 takeaways instead of just 1. Detroit is terrible, and the only reason they were in it was because the offense was horribly inept. The reason the Bears wilted against the better teams was more about the offense not being able to score enough than the defense giving up a ton of points. Had the offense been even slightly good, the Bears would have won a few of those games. It's sad when offenses with rookie QBs - that should have all the excuses in the world - look like a swiss watch compared to the Bears O.
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CadeMcGrossman


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at Lovie's win % is very deceiving and is just making excuses to keep him. Bottom line is championships. The only way to can compete for a championship is to get into the playoffs early and often. Lovie is 3/9 in that regard and has only 3 playoff wins to his name. That is not the mark of a great coach. The weaknesses of this team are mostly of Lovie's doing.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Anyone who thinks that we met or didnt meet Emery's goals is blowing smoke. Speculation at its finest.


Emery's goals were to start fast, collapse and miss the playoffs.

I would like to hope that our GM had higher expectations then simply going 10-6 beating up on crap teams.


Emery stated he wanted to progress toward the goal of winning a championship when he was introduced to the media…are you honestly trying to say we haven’t progressed from where we were in 2011?
We were out of the playoffs last year and had no chance to win the championship, we are out of the playoffs this year and have no chance of winning the championship. So no substantial progress has been made. Had we staggered into the playoffs at least a semi-legitimate claim could be made that progress has been made.

And look at this last game. Was it not pitiful to beat the stupidest team in the league which was desperately trying to throw the game into our laps by a miserable TWO points? And was anyone certain we would not collapse completely losing the game?

Nothing is easier for the sports fan to convince themselves that the putid pile of crap they have been watching are only a tweak or two from being a pile of gold. I speak from long experience in doing just that.

How great it was to at least had a decade of knowing that your team had a GREAT coach and you were confident it would win. NOW I never am confident the Bears will win, NEVER. Not even against the stupidest team in the league.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Playoffs 1 time in 6 years
consistent record means more.
Smith's record is that he is CONSISTENTLY out of the playoffs.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
No one is doubting that he wants to win a SB Superman. The speculation comes in to play on whether he likes the direction of this team right now.
He's an educated man so I have to believe he thinks improving by 2 games is progression. His decision comes down to whether he believes that talent or coaching is the problem. He came in and w/ 1 real change on the roster got 2 more wins. There was a major talent gap when he took over he knows that. Here's the question I have for all the Lovie haters, if the Bears have even an AVERAGE OL do they win that 1 extra game they needed this year?
No. There was as much talent on the Bears as on most NFL teams. They are all very close. Much closer that the Angelo Haters would admit.

Smith threw away two games. Good coaches don't do that.

Any improvement has to be measured against the improvement the other teams make.

Did we improve vs. Green Bay? NO!! Did we improve vs Minnesota? NO!!
Did we improve vs S.F. ? NO!!! Did we improve against Seattle? NO!!! Or Washington, Atlanta?

Our "improvement" leaves us threading water out of the playoffs with the other also-rans where you can expect to find Smith's teams.

Good coaches team do not get off to a fast start then collapse as ours has the last two years. They improve through the year. Smith's do just the opposite.

There is no improvement when teams collapse and can't beat good teams at the end of the year. You might be able to fool yourself but not me.
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