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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Funny palooka using the one meaningless game argument to argue his positives, but yet you still throw him under the bus and back up over him for the negatives in one meaningless game.

Keep pointing to his missed passes, his footwork, and throwing motion, but it was one game, right? In fact his first game in years.


So in a meaningless game, you see a QB missing wide open throws and hucking hand grenades deep and you can't judge THAT. The traits you want to see in a QB.

I'm saying his 3 TDs in a meaningless game are not going to be typical in a 16 game season. The bad passes and rainbows however will be. That is who he is as a QB. Always has been.

Again....

Does anyone truly believe you could win a Superbowl with Pryor as your QB?


But to be fair there were a ton of dropped passes in that game too.

And does anyone believe that all 31 of the other QB's in the league have a chance and the QB talent to win a Super Bowl? Of course not. That is a silly statement.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Funny palooka using the one meaningless game argument to argue his positives, but yet you still throw him under the bus and back up over him for the negatives in one meaningless game.

Keep pointing to his missed passes, his footwork, and throwing motion, but it was one game, right? In fact his first game in years.


So in a meaningless game, you see a QB missing wide open throws and hucking hand grenades deep and you can't judge THAT. The traits you want to see in a QB.

I'm saying his 3 TDs in a meaningless game are not going to be typical in a 16 game season. The bad passes and rainbows however will be. That is who he is as a QB. Always has been.

Again....

Does anyone truly believe you could win a Superbowl with Pryor as your QB?


But to be fair there were a ton of dropped passes in that game too.

And does anyone believe that all 31 of the other QB's in the league have a chance and the QB talent to win a Super Bowl? Of course not. That is a silly statement.


Why is that a silly statement. You have a have a good QB to get to the playoffs and win the Superbowl.

That guys isn't on the Raiders roster right now.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

La_Vader wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
Django wrote:
Baonez wrote:
Palmer in garbage time = "We never had a chance"
Pryor in garbage time = "We looked good in a close loss."

I've compared TeePee to Tebow because MANY (not all) of their respective fans have an agenda that transcends football. The perspective surrounding Pryor and Palmer are so polarizing and so skewed that I rarely even comment anymore. I'd be all for starting Pryor if a 4-12 season could guarantee Clowney but it won't as he is only a Jr.


We all agree that Pryor has a long way to go.

But of course people are going to be more impressed with 23 year old in garbage time to a 33 year old in garbage time.

Of course people are going to praise 22 year old RG3 for getting to the playoffs and rip 32 year old Tony Romo for missing it.

Its why Russell Wilson gets so much hype now for winning a playoff game....that people overlook Matt Ryan even though he's the better QB.

Young guys get the benefit of the doubt early on. We might not be sold on his passing skills yet. But putting up similar stuff in similar situation (TD's in garbage time) is always going to favor the young guy.


Its hilarious that people hold a guy in his first start to the same standards as a ten year veteran.

Fun fact: if Pryor had as "bad" of a game against the Chargers every game for a full season, he would have led the league in TDs.

Cut him, I hate rainbows and Tebow!!!


What's hilarious is the overreaction to 1 meaningless game. A game that for a large stretch he did nothing but miss open WRs left and right.

If someone actually watched that game and thought you could be a winning team with that level of QB play, then I feel sorry for them.


Nothing but miss open WRs? Just wow. Lets also not forget a penalty stopped what likely would have been a 4th TD. But scrap his 3 scores. You don't care about points apparently.

If someone actually knew anything about professional football its that young players can develop into better players. You for some reason think he has no ability to improve after 1 game. Yet we have the overreaction.....


And what did we learn with Jamarcus...... if you are not an accurate passer, it can't be taught. He has no touch or feel consistently as a passer. You either have that or you don't. Pryor doesn't.

This is Jamarcus against Tampa all over again. Has a nice week 17 showing and everyone is ready to jump on his bandwagon.

All I am saying is give it more than 1 game.



What we learned from Jemarcus, if you don't work hard to be a great player in the NFL your going fall flat in your face. Russelll had no work ethic, the opposite of Pryor


Correct. But Russell also couldn't throw an accurate pass. No amount of work ethic can fix that. You either have it or you don't. Accuracy isn't something that can be taught. Teams find this out over and over with their young QBs.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaisinBran wrote:

Please don't compare Pryor to Jamarcus. They have no similarities AT ALL other than race.

Pryor works hard, Russell didn't. Pryor is mobile, Russell wasn't. Pryor can lead and take control of an offense, manage the game. Russell couldn't.

Also, it's dumb to compare Russell's week 17 performance in 2008 against Pryor's week 17 performance this season. That makes no sense to me. You're comparing Russell in his 18th career start to Pryor making his 1st career start.....

This WAS PRYOR'S FIRST GAME IN THE NFL yet you act like you know everything about him and what he's capable of. I've never seen such bias out of you before and it's really pissing me off. Give the kid a chance will ya GEEEEZ. You say give it more than 1 game and then contradict yourself saying he doesn't have accuracy... after seeing one game... and then your counter argument to that is using Jamarcus Russell as an example. lmao woww....

/rant

I'm gonna go do some hw now. Mad


False. They both are inaccurate passers. Again, something that cannot be taught.

There is no bias. I actually like Pryor's leadership and the things he says. But I'm not going to be one of those fans who ignores glaring accuracy issues and pretends he's going to be a franchise QB for the Raiders.

Unfortunately, with his mechanics and accuracy he's not a guy you can put the future of your franchise on. I just don't see him improving as a passer. Why? Because he's throwing the same ball with the same mechanics he's thrown since his OSU days.

It's muscle memory. Just like Tebow. As much as he tried to change it and be a passer, he always reverts back to his windmill throwing motion and bad accuracy.
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Nodisrespect


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
La_Vader wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
Django wrote:
Baonez wrote:
Palmer in garbage time = "We never had a chance"
Pryor in garbage time = "We looked good in a close loss."

I've compared TeePee to Tebow because MANY (not all) of their respective fans have an agenda that transcends football. The perspective surrounding Pryor and Palmer are so polarizing and so skewed that I rarely even comment anymore. I'd be all for starting Pryor if a 4-12 season could guarantee Clowney but it won't as he is only a Jr.


We all agree that Pryor has a long way to go.

But of course people are going to be more impressed with 23 year old in garbage time to a 33 year old in garbage time.

Of course people are going to praise 22 year old RG3 for getting to the playoffs and rip 32 year old Tony Romo for missing it.

Its why Russell Wilson gets so much hype now for winning a playoff game....that people overlook Matt Ryan even though he's the better QB.

Young guys get the benefit of the doubt early on. We might not be sold on his passing skills yet. But putting up similar stuff in similar situation (TD's in garbage time) is always going to favor the young guy.


Its hilarious that people hold a guy in his first start to the same standards as a ten year veteran.

Fun fact: if Pryor had as "bad" of a game against the Chargers every game for a full season, he would have led the league in TDs.

Cut him, I hate rainbows and Tebow!!!


What's hilarious is the overreaction to 1 meaningless game. A game that for a large stretch he did nothing but miss open WRs left and right.

If someone actually watched that game and thought you could be a winning team with that level of QB play, then I feel sorry for them.


Nothing but miss open WRs? Just wow. Lets also not forget a penalty stopped what likely would have been a 4th TD. But scrap his 3 scores. You don't care about points apparently.

If someone actually knew anything about professional football its that young players can develop into better players. You for some reason think he has no ability to improve after 1 game. Yet we have the overreaction.....


And what did we learn with Jamarcus...... if you are not an accurate passer, it can't be taught. He has no touch or feel consistently as a passer. You either have that or you don't. Pryor doesn't.

This is Jamarcus against Tampa all over again. Has a nice week 17 showing and everyone is ready to jump on his bandwagon.

All I am saying is give it more than 1 game.



What we learned from Jemarcus, if you don't work hard to be a great player in the NFL your going fall flat in your face. Russelll had no work ethic, the opposite of Pryor


Correct. But Russell also couldn't throw an accurate pass. No amount of work ethic can fix that. You either have it or you don't. Accuracy isn't something that can be taught. Teams find this out over and over with their young QBs.


So i guess Andrew luck is already a bust then with is 54% accuracy, that sucks for the colts. Sad
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:

And what did we learn with Jamarcus...... if you are not an accurate passer, it can't be taught. He has no touch or feel consistently as a passer. You either have that or you don't. Pryor doesn't.


You know this how? One start after sitting around for two years? Might as well cut the guy then. Let him find a new career.


Quote:
Does anyone truly believe you could win a Superbowl with Pryor as your QB?


Do we have a chance to win the Super Bowl with Palmer?

So let's continue to pay Palmer what we pay to have an average season, that will surely have a losing record, to let a 3rd round pick sit by the wayside, to waste it. Let's not bother giving the guy a chance.

Comparing him to JR is garbage. He works hard, he wants to play, does everything right...he wants to get better and wants to shine.


Big P has lost his marbles over the years. Shame, he used to be one of the better posters in the forum. Now he compares Pryor to Jamarcus? Jamarcus got handed 30+ million and was lazier than any player in the league, and compares him to arguably our hardest working player who has had nothing handed to him in this league.


I didn't lose my marbles. I'm only comparing them as passers and their accuracy.

I said with Jamarcus you can't teach accuracy and that is all I'm saying here.

Amazing how polarizing a player Pryor is. If you don't drink the kool-aid it aims to rile everyone up.

Again, love his leadership and dedication. Loves what he says. But don't see it translating to the field consistently. You can't teach accuracy. If anyone cares to argue that, be my guest.
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justwinbaby81


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:

And what did we learn with Jamarcus...... if you are not an accurate passer, it can't be taught. He has no touch or feel consistently as a passer. You either have that or you don't. Pryor doesn't.


You know this how? One start after sitting around for two years? Might as well cut the guy then. Let him find a new career.


Quote:
Does anyone truly believe you could win a Superbowl with Pryor as your QB?


Do we have a chance to win the Super Bowl with Palmer?

So let's continue to pay Palmer what we pay to have an average season, that will surely have a losing record, to let a 3rd round pick sit by the wayside, to waste it. Let's not bother giving the guy a chance.

Comparing him to JR is garbage. He works hard, he wants to play, does everything right...he wants to get better and wants to shine.


Big P has lost his marbles over the years. Shame, he used to be one of the better posters in the forum. Now he compares Pryor to Jamarcus? Jamarcus got handed 30+ million and was lazier than any player in the league, and compares him to arguably our hardest working player who has had nothing handed to him in this league.


I didn't lose my marbles. I'm only comparing them as passers and their accuracy.

I said with Jamarcus you can't teach accuracy and that is all I'm saying here.

Amazing how polarizing a player Pryor is. If you don't drink the kool-aid it aims to rile everyone up.

Again, love his leadership and dedication. Loves what he says. But don't see it translating to the field consistently. You can't teach accuracy. If anyone cares to argue that, be my guest.


What riles up everyone is when he gets torn apart after a decent showing in his debut.at least its a consensus decent debut. I went back and looked last night to see if you ever graded him, which is why I made this thread. I didn't see it. What would you grade him in his first game?
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
That's because we've never seen Leinart flip the ball 50 yards downfield without even stepping into his throw. If you can do that, you're able to zip it 15 yards. Will Pryor ever do it? I don't know. I think he has the physical ability to do it though, that's why i wouldn't call his arm weak.


This is where my own "definition" comes into play. What I want as a strong arm is a combination of both traits you spoke of. In the many years I've seen Pryor play, he does have the ability to put zip on those passes but the situation must be perfect. He must have good blocking, he must have room, he must have time to make up his mind etc. Almost every time I've seen him run a quick drop and the ball's out, he floats it. Literally 90% of the time. That won't fly in this league. You and I know that.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
macklemore wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
Fun fact: if Pryor had as "bad" of a game against the Chargers every game for a full season, he would have led the league in TDs.

Cut him, I hate rainbows and Tebow!!!


We would also be 0-16.


Would that be Pryors fault? I don't think we would blame the QB with 48 TDs. Maybe you, not me.


LOL 48 TDs. Funny stuff.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:

I'm saying his 3 TDs in a meaningless game are not going to be typical in a 16 game season. The bad passes and rainbows however will be. That is who he is as a QB. Always has been.


This.

He did some things really well and yes, we scored 3 TDs. However, you cant expect a 3 TD performance every game, especially against better teams who had more than 2 days to prepare for Pryor. Remember, there was maybe 2 minutes of game film on him before that game. The scores in future games would be based on Pryor, yes, but also on the other 10 players on offense, our playcalling, our starting field position, and our opponent's defense. Every game is different and full of different situations, so you can never epxect the same or even similar results from anyone without a proven, consistent track record. The way he throws, however, will likely not change much, and that is a real issue.

Yes, players can improve, but the question becomes how much will he improve? We dont know that, but I do know 2 things: 1) I can not remember ever seeing a QB who, at the pro level, changed his mechanics radically enough to eliminate lobs and improve his accuracy enough to be a threat passing the ball, and 2) lob passes are the ones DB's take advantage of.

Look, I dont hate Pryor, I am trying to remain realistic. I support him as long as he is in silver and black. I just am going off what I've seen him do, and comparing it to how NFL defenses work.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
What's hilarious is the overreaction to 1 meaningless game. A game that for a large stretch he did nothing but miss open WRs left and right.

If someone actually watched that game and thought you could be a winning team with that level of QB play, then I feel sorry for them.


Precisely. Things are being avoided and people are just looking at his TD totals (most of which were garbage time BTW according to their standards but they're not counting those now, no way) and completely disregarding the fact that he was totally inaccurate and our offense stuttered for 60% of the game and we went three and out on 6 of our 11 drives. This is just ridiculous. "But it was his first start in blah blah blah his accuracy will get better, he'll stop throwing those rainbows" uhhhhhh no he won't. He's had plenty of time and practice to fix those problems and... they're still around. So is it going to become a Xmas miracle and all of the sudden the things he's had major problems w/ over the course of his career in college and the pros, just going to magically disappear??

Holy bias, Batman!!
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

La_Vader wrote:
What we learned from Jemarcus, if you don't work hard to be a great player in the NFL your going fall flat in your face. Russelll had no work ethic, the opposite of Pryor


So work ethic is all you need to succeed in this league?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaisinBran wrote:

Please don't compare Pryor to Jamarcus. They have no similarities AT ALL other than race.

Pryor works hard, Russell didn't. Pryor is mobile, Russell wasn't. Pryor can lead and take control of an offense, manage the game. Russell couldn't.


Russell was actually very mobile for his size.

Quote:
Also, it's dumb to compare Russell's week 17 performance in 2008 against Pryor's week 17 performance this season. That makes no sense to me. You're comparing Russell in his 18th career start to Pryor making his 1st career start.....


But they're both starts in meaningless games that have done what? Divided our fan base. People thought Russell was the next great thing after that start, did they not?? Hell, some people here still think he's a good QB. Now, after one, average at best, start, people are clamoring for Pryor when he couldn't drive the ball ALL GAME until the 4th quarter when SD was up 17 points. Hmmm......... I can hear the "garbage time" chants from all the Palmer haters now..... if it were him that was QBing LOL.

I'm going to play a Palmer detractor for a moment:

Take out the garbage time drives in the 4th quarter and you have 8 total drives. Pryor went three and out on 5 of those drives. 62% of our drives for the game.... against a team playing poorly all season and really lacking....

Soooo why are we up in arms about this guy being good again??

Quote:
This WAS PRYOR'S FIRST GAME IN THE NFL yet you act like you know everything about him and what he's capable of.


BUT HE PLAYED SO MANY GAMES IN COLLEGE AND HAD THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS (that's me mocking you, not "yelling"). You think that crap will fly when people have footage of him? I can't wait to see the debacle that would turn in to... oh wait, I can. I never want to see it.

Quote:
I've never seen such bias out of you before and it's really pissing me off.


You do have mirrors in your place, right?

Quote:
Give the kid a chance will ya GEEEEZ. You say give it more than 1 game and then contradict yourself saying he doesn't have accuracy... after seeing one game...


He's had accuracy problems for almost his entire college career also. Why do people only want to focus on college if he was great and his awards but not the problems he had?? Hmm...
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
how many wins do you expect with Palmer this season? You say we should start Pryor because you'd expect a 4-12 season to put us in position to take Clowney...so if we start Palmer we definitely won't be in position to draft him??? Things some of us say....


Right? Isn't it hilarious. The funniest being people who think a QB is the sole reason for our W/L record. That's the greatest of them all!!!

OK, back to ignoring you.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But to be fair there were a ton of dropped passes in that game too.


Palmer was 2nd in the league for dropped passes FWIW. If it's not 2nd, it's somewhere up there. So are we allowed to use that for an excuse his numbers didn't look better and he didn't succeed more??
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