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Would you be okay with Pryor going forward?
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What would you like Oakland to do at QB next season?
Start Palmer, develop Pryor
56%
 56%  [ 37 ]
Start Pryor, Carson mentor
18%
 18%  [ 12 ]
Start Palmer, cut Pryor, get a new QBOTF
7%
 7%  [ 5 ]
Start Pryor, draft QBOTF
7%
 7%  [ 5 ]
Other
9%
 9%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 65

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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10096
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Brees 670 attempts 43 TD's and 19 Ints and his team won 7 games

Palmer 565 attempts 22 TD's and 14 Int's...4 wins....


I'm confused what this is about. Brees is obviously better than Palmer, something nobody has ever argued, but if you are focusing on wins, at least acknowledge that the Saints roster and staff are much better than ours, too.


Bress also scored 21 more TDs that's 126 more points..imagine how many more games we win scoring those TDs..


Well seeing as those 21 TDs only got them 3 more wins than us...


I was going to say exactly..but then I realized we would have be 7-9 and these guys would be rioting because we regressed.


LOL, yeah. The Saints are better at virtually every position, coaching, and playcalling than we are, and 5K yards and 43 TDs from their QB still only got them 7 wins. People can pin all the responsibility they want on a QB, but it is a team sport.

I'm sure someone will misread this post and think I'm comparing Palmer to Brees.


lol they didnt have their hc for the whole season and got their other coach back mid season. not to mention their defensive captain vilma was out all year. you guys are funny.

they also had the 5th best strength of schedule
we had the 26th best strength of schedule

Remember fellas, excuses only apply for Brees, not Palmer.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:

Remember fellas, excuses only apply for Brees, not Palmer.


This is why some people aren't even worthy of discussion unless you're a masochist and love headaches.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14928
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Brees 670 attempts 43 TD's and 19 Ints and his team won 7 games

Palmer 565 attempts 22 TD's and 14 Int's...4 wins....


I'm confused what this is about. Brees is obviously better than Palmer, something nobody has ever argued, but if you are focusing on wins, at least acknowledge that the Saints roster and staff are much better than ours, too.


Bress also scored 21 more TDs that's 126 more points..imagine how many more games we win scoring those TDs..


Well seeing as those 21 TDs only got them 3 more wins than us...


I was going to say exactly..but then I realized we would have be 7-9 and these guys would be rioting because we regressed.


LOL, yeah. The Saints are better at virtually every position, coaching, and playcalling than we are, and 5K yards and 43 TDs from their QB still only got them 7 wins. People can pin all the responsibility they want on a QB, but it is a team sport.

I'm sure someone will misread this post and think I'm comparing Palmer to Brees.


lol they didnt have their hc for the whole season and got their other coach back mid season. not to mention their defensive captain vilma was out all year. you guys are funny.

they also had the 5th best strength of schedule
we had the 26th best strength of schedule

Remember fellas, excuses only apply for Brees, not Palmer.


oh sorry i guess we arent being realistic right now. my bad.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5365
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Brees 670 attempts 43 TD's and 19 Ints and his team won 7 games

Palmer 565 attempts 22 TD's and 14 Int's...4 wins....


I'm confused what this is about. Brees is obviously better than Palmer, something nobody has ever argued, but if you are focusing on wins, at least acknowledge that the Saints roster and staff are much better than ours, too.


Bress also scored 21 more TDs that's 126 more points..imagine how many more games we win scoring those TDs..


Well seeing as those 21 TDs only got them 3 more wins than us...


I was going to say exactly..but then I realized we would have be 7-9 and these guys would be rioting because we regressed.


LOL, yeah. The Saints are better at virtually every position, coaching, and playcalling than we are, and 5K yards and 43 TDs from their QB still only got them 7 wins. People can pin all the responsibility they want on a QB, but it is a team sport.

I'm sure someone will misread this post and think I'm comparing Palmer to Brees.


lol they didnt have their hc for the whole season and got their other coach back mid season. not to mention their defensive captain vilma was out all year. you guys are funny.

they also had the 5th best strength of schedule
we had the 26th best strength of schedule


Yea and Carmichael took over. That was the same guy who coached them for 10 games last year and they put up better numbers than they ever have under Payton(474 YPG and 37 PPG). So how could Carmichael taking over lead them to gain 57 less yards and 6 less points per game than 2011?

Is Vilma's absence and their LB coach's 6 game suspension really the only thing that led them to give up 70 more yards and 7 more points per game than 2011?

I think you are overestimating the effect Payton's suspension had on Brees. This isnt a young QB who is still developing under the tuteledge of his 1st HC. Brees is a GREAT veteran QB who has been doing this for years. He does not need his HC to do his thing when he still has his stellar OC calling the shots, 3 Pro-Bowl OL, and Jimmy Graham and Marques Colston. That roster is loaded with talent on both sides of the ball. They even added one of the best DC's in the NFL and still couldnt get it done.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Payton is the excuse for Brees but there's no excuse for a complete overhaul of an organization for a guy who's basically new to a team LOL. Deeerrrrpppp
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Brees 670 attempts 43 TD's and 19 Ints and his team won 7 games

Palmer 565 attempts 22 TD's and 14 Int's...4 wins....


I'm confused what this is about. Brees is obviously better than Palmer, something nobody has ever argued, but if you are focusing on wins, at least acknowledge that the Saints roster and staff are much better than ours, too.


Bress also scored 21 more TDs that's 126 more points..imagine how many more games we win scoring those TDs..


Well seeing as those 21 TDs only got them 3 more wins than us...


I was going to say exactly..but then I realized we would have be 7-9 and these guys would be rioting because we regressed.


LOL, yeah. The Saints are better at virtually every position, coaching, and playcalling than we are, and 5K yards and 43 TDs from their QB still only got them 7 wins. People can pin all the responsibility they want on a QB, but it is a team sport.

I'm sure someone will misread this post and think I'm comparing Palmer to Brees.


lol they didnt have their hc for the whole season and got their other coach back mid season. not to mention their defensive captain vilma was out all year. you guys are funny.

they also had the 5th best strength of schedule
we had the 26th best strength of schedule


Yea and Carmichael took over. That was the same guy who coached them for 10 games last year and they put up better numbers than they ever have under Payton(474 YPG and 37 PPG). So how could Carmichael taking over lead them to gain 57 less yards and 6 less points per game than 2011?

Is Vilma's absence and their LB coach's 6 game suspension really the only thing that led them to give up 70 more yards and 7 more points per game than 2011?

I think you are overestimating the effect Payton's suspension had on Brees. This isnt a young QB who is still developing under the tuteledge of his 1st HC. Brees is a GREAT veteran QB who has been doing this for years. He does not need his HC to do his thing when he still has his stellar OC calling the shots, 3 Pro-Bowl OL, and Jimmy Graham and Marques Colston. That roster is loaded with talent on both sides of the ball. They even added one of the best DC's in the NFL and still couldnt get it done.


-overestimating payton's effect? they didnt even start winning until they got some of their coaches back.

Quote:
Payton is 62-34 in regular-season games as Saints coach and 5-3 in the postseason. During the three seasons before his suspension, the Saints won 41 regular-season and playoff games combined, more than any other team in the NFL.
Payton has primarily handled the offense in New Orleans, teaming up with Brees to break numerous NFL and club records...Without Payton on the sideline this season, the Saints missed the playoffs for the first time since 2008.


-vilma imo is maybe the second best mb in the nfl behind willis. so yea not having him there was major. mlbs are like the qb of the defense they make line calls etc etc.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20121228/payton-agrees-to-multi-year-extension.ap/
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Payton is the excuse for Brees but there's no excuse for a complete overhaul of an organization for a guy who's basically new to a team LOL. Deeerrrrpppp


when you are a career average at best qb like cp it is easy to see why he performs mediocre every year.

when you are a stud qb like brees who hasnt missed the playoffs since 2008 you wonder why he had a mediocre year despite putting up good #'s.
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]I think you are overestimating the effect Payton's suspension had on Brees. This isnt a young QB who is still developing under the tuteledge of his 1st HC. Brees is a GREAT veteran QB who has been doing this for years. He does not need his HC to do his thing when he still has his stellar OC calling the shots, 3 Pro-Bowl OL, and Jimmy Graham and Marques Colston. That roster is loaded with talent on both sides of the ball. They even added one of the best DC's in the NFL and still couldnt get it done.[/quote]

You guys change the angle of your own arguments just to suit you. Tagg and others right now are trying to compare Palmer to Pryor, its a joke. Saying these excuses only apply to Brees, not Palmer. Now Tagg wants to compare Brees playing without Payton this year, but Palmer had a new coach.

The bold is so stupid. Nobody is making an excuse for Brees, the team only won 7 games because Payton was out. If you try to down play that and claim we are overestimating his absence, then there is no hope for you. If Payton missing wasn't a big deal then why do the Saints need him? Just let him go, don't over pay. WOW, you guys are seriously simple.
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Burgesskills


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Payton is the excuse for Brees but there's no excuse for a complete overhaul of an organization for a guy who's basically new to a team LOL. Deeerrrrpppp


REALLY? Saying you don't try to compare the two? Palmer has played in two post season games ever and has been around just as long as Brees. It's easy to point to the running game, targets, defense around the QB, eventually you it becomes clear, it's the fact that he is a solid/decent QB, not a winner.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:

Yea and Carmichael took over. That was the same guy who coached them for 10 games last year and they put up better numbers than they ever have under Payton(474 YPG and 37 PPG). So how could Carmichael taking over lead them to gain 57 less yards and 6 less points per game than 2011?

Is Vilma's absence and their LB coach's 6 game suspension really the only thing that led them to give up 70 more yards and 7 more points per game than 2011?

I think you are overestimating the effect Payton's suspension had on Brees. This isnt a young QB who is still developing under the tuteledge of his 1st HC. Brees is a GREAT veteran QB who has been doing this for years. He does not need his HC to do his thing when he still has his stellar OC calling the shots, 3 Pro-Bowl OL, and Jimmy Graham and Marques Colston. That roster is loaded with talent on both sides of the ball. They even added one of the best DC's in the NFL and still couldnt get it done.


-overestimating payton's effect? they didnt even start winning until they got some of their coaches back.

Quote:
Payton is 62-34 in regular-season games as Saints coach and 5-3 in the postseason. During the three seasons before his suspension, the Saints won 41 regular-season and playoff games combined, more than any other team in the NFL.
Payton has primarily handled the offense in New Orleans, teaming up with Brees to break numerous NFL and club records...Without Payton on the sideline this season, the Saints missed the playoffs for the first time since 2008.


-vilma imo is maybe the second best mb in the nfl behind willis. so yea not having him there was major. mlbs are like the qb of the defense they make line calls etc etc.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20121228/payton-agrees-to-multi-year-extension.ap/


Yes I know Sean payton wins a lot of games. What I am saying is that last year Carmichael took over for 10 games when Payton broke his leg or whatever. In that stretch where Carmichael called plays, the offense was astounding and put up numbers they never did when Payton called the plays in previous seasons. That means the offense shouldnt hurt too bad without Payton. I agree that losing your MLB is a big deal, when they added one of the best DC's in the NFL it should lessen the blow.

Regardless, we are getting way off track here. Even if losing Payton really did that much damage, they still had a great offense. Offense obviously was not the problem, nor was QB play. The problem is that the defense sucked (the reason doesnt matter) and limited their overall success as a team, despite how well the offense performed. The point is that their QB exploded and had a monster season, and did everyhting that a reasonable person could ask of a QB, and they still could only muster 7 wins. QB play does not always determine what kind of season you will have. Qb only impacts 1/3 of the game, and he is still subjected to the talent and decisions of all the other offensive players and playcaller.

Tell Adrian Peterson that the Christian Ponder gets credit for their 10 win season.
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL this thread silly.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
LOL this thread silly.


I was thinking the same Laughing
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Nobody is making an excuse for Brees, the team only won 7 games because Payton was out. If you try to down play that and claim we are overestimating his absence, then there is no hope for you. If Payton missing wasn't a big deal then why do the Saints need him? Just let him go, don't over pay. WOW, you guys are seriously simple.


I'm simple? No need for personal attacks, big guy. I never said Payton's absence didnt matter, I said I think NCOUGH was overestimating it's effect on Brees and the offense. Yes, it is obviously going to affect your team, no doubt. What I am saying is that they had a great OC take over and their offense performed pretty much as well as it always has under Payton. 29 PPG is certainly enough for most teams to win more than 7 games. I never said anything about excuses for Brees. The only thing I brought up is that your QB can have a stellar year and your team can still suck.

The defense is what really struggled- that is the reason for their poor season. Payton is an offensive coach. I'm not saying he had nothing to do with defense because of course he did as HC, but they hired a very respected DC to run the defense. That was Spag's job, not Payton's, and not Carmichael who took over for Payton.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
LOL this thread silly.


I was thinking the same Laughing


Just when I forget why I dont post in here as often any more, I start posting and remember shortly thereafter.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:

Yea and Carmichael took over. That was the same guy who coached them for 10 games last year and they put up better numbers than they ever have under Payton(474 YPG and 37 PPG). So how could Carmichael taking over lead them to gain 57 less yards and 6 less points per game than 2011?

Is Vilma's absence and their LB coach's 6 game suspension really the only thing that led them to give up 70 more yards and 7 more points per game than 2011?

I think you are overestimating the effect Payton's suspension had on Brees. This isnt a young QB who is still developing under the tuteledge of his 1st HC. Brees is a GREAT veteran QB who has been doing this for years. He does not need his HC to do his thing when he still has his stellar OC calling the shots, 3 Pro-Bowl OL, and Jimmy Graham and Marques Colston. That roster is loaded with talent on both sides of the ball. They even added one of the best DC's in the NFL and still couldnt get it done.


-overestimating payton's effect? they didnt even start winning until they got some of their coaches back.

Quote:
Payton is 62-34 in regular-season games as Saints coach and 5-3 in the postseason. During the three seasons before his suspension, the Saints won 41 regular-season and playoff games combined, more than any other team in the NFL.
Payton has primarily handled the offense in New Orleans, teaming up with Brees to break numerous NFL and club records...Without Payton on the sideline this season, the Saints missed the playoffs for the first time since 2008.


-vilma imo is maybe the second best mb in the nfl behind willis. so yea not having him there was major. mlbs are like the qb of the defense they make line calls etc etc.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20121228/payton-agrees-to-multi-year-extension.ap/


Yes I know Sean payton wins a lot of games. What I am saying is that last year Carmichael took over for 10 games when Payton broke his leg or whatever. In that stretch where Carmichael called plays, the offense was astounding and put up numbers they never did when Payton called the plays in previous seasons. That means the offense shouldnt hurt too bad without Payton. I agree that losing your MLB is a big deal, when they added one of the best DC's in the NFL it should lessen the blow.

Regardless, we are getting way off track here. Even if losing Payton really did that much damage, they still had a great offense. Offense obviously was not the problem, nor was QB play. The problem is that the defense sucked (the reason doesnt matter) and limited their overall success as a team, despite how well the offense performed. The point is that their QB exploded and had a monster season, and did everyhting that a reasonable person could ask of a QB, and they still could only muster 7 wins. QB play does not always determine what kind of season you will have. Qb only impacts 1/3 of the game, and he is still subjected to the talent and decisions of all the other offensive players and playcaller.

Tell Adrian Peterson that the Christian Ponder gets credit for their 10 win season.


-do you really think when payton was injured he had no role in game planning or the play calls during that stretch? if thats the case why didnt the saint ball hard without payton this year? surely let you tell it carmichael is just as good if not better at play calling than payton.

-they started the season 1-4 and brees played very poor in most of those games. brees also played poor in most of their losses.

-the only reason the vikes got off to a fast start was due to ponder playing mistake free football. once ponder started sucking the losses started to stack up. ap will always be ap but the last time they were good was when they had good qb play from farve.
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