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Pick one
Gary kubiak
56%
 56%  [ 13 ]
Matt Schaub
26%
 26%  [ 6 ]
Wade Phillips
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Andre Johnson
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
whoever the hell is the oc these days
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
the secondary
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Oline
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Foster
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 23

Author Message
EliteTexan80


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Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 38129
Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Now, at the risk of being attacked by the masses - 112/1598 is a FANTASTIC season, but to have those numbers and ONLY score 4 TDs is nothing short of a failure. I think the only WR to post 100+ receptions and have such a poor season catching TD passes was Wes Welker in 2009. Nobody cared, because Randy Moss caught 13 TD passes.

Either you catch that many passes and score TDs, or you open up someone else to catch TDs. If you have THAT many catches, THAT many yards...not scoring TDs needs to be a mark that's held against you.


I don't think it is a mark. It raises questions about why.

But we know why. It's the same reason he's always had low TD numbers. We generally don't look his way at all from the 10 yard line in. We are happy with dumps over the middle to OD. Or back of the endzone to Graham. Or fades to Kevin bleeping Walter. Kubiak has been very clear that Andre is nothing but a decoy down there.


I used to think that, and - to some extent - I agree. However, 112 grabs and only FOUR TDs? It's not like AJ is some one trick pony, who can only find paydirt on a few routes.

This SEASON, we saw the full gambit in those four TDs - we saw the RZ throw where AJ makes a nice grab against Miami for TD #1, we saw the aired out bomb on the 60+ yarder against Denver for TD #2, we saw the tackle breaking, YAC-gaining 40 yarder against the Jags for TD #3, and we saw the short slant inside the 10 against the Colts for TD #4.

I can admit, the playcalling doesn't lend itself to many chances, but when a number is THAT far out of proportion, when can we say "Dammit AJ, break a tackle or two and make a play," once in a while?
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DreDay80


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2180
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Now, at the risk of being attacked by the masses - 112/1598 is a FANTASTIC season, but to have those numbers and ONLY score 4 TDs is nothing short of a failure. I think the only WR to post 100+ receptions and have such a poor season catching TD passes was Wes Welker in 2009. Nobody cared, because Randy Moss caught 13 TD passes.

Either you catch that many passes and score TDs, or you open up someone else to catch TDs. If you have THAT many catches, THAT many yards...not scoring TDs needs to be a mark that's held against you.


I don't think it is a mark. It raises questions about why.

But we know why. It's the same reason he's always had low TD numbers. We generally don't look his way at all from the 10 yard line in. We are happy with dumps over the middle to OD. Or back of the endzone to Graham. Or fades to Kevin bleeping Walter. Kubiak has been very clear that Andre is nothing but a decoy down there.


I used to think that, and - to some extent - I agree. However, 112 grabs and only FOUR TDs? It's not like AJ is some one trick pony, who can only find paydirt on a few routes.

This SEASON, we saw the full gambit in those four TDs - we saw the RZ throw where AJ makes a nice grab against Miami for TD #1, we saw the aired out bomb on the 60+ yarder against Denver for TD #2, we saw the tackle breaking, YAC-gaining 40 yarder against the Jags for TD #3, and we saw the short slant inside the 10 against the Colts for TD #4.

I can admit, the playcalling doesn't lend itself to many chances, but when a number is THAT far out of proportion, when can we say "Dammit AJ, break a tackle or two and make a play," once in a while?


Schaub's noodle arm doesn't help. AJ is one of the league leaders in YAC so to say he doesn't break tackles is just asinine. Our RUNNING BACK is the one not breaking tackles. AJ gets us inside the 10 where Foster gets all his TDs. Look at Dez and AJ Green and what their offensive coordinators dial up when they're inside the 10. They get at least 1 fade/jump ball opportunity every possession. Andre? He gets maybe 1 every season....Should Andre be able to score more TDs? Heck yes, but Andre's TDs is the LEAST of our worries.
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EliteTexan80


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Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreDay80 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Now, at the risk of being attacked by the masses - 112/1598 is a FANTASTIC season, but to have those numbers and ONLY score 4 TDs is nothing short of a failure. I think the only WR to post 100+ receptions and have such a poor season catching TD passes was Wes Welker in 2009. Nobody cared, because Randy Moss caught 13 TD passes.

Either you catch that many passes and score TDs, or you open up someone else to catch TDs. If you have THAT many catches, THAT many yards...not scoring TDs needs to be a mark that's held against you.


I don't think it is a mark. It raises questions about why.

But we know why. It's the same reason he's always had low TD numbers. We generally don't look his way at all from the 10 yard line in. We are happy with dumps over the middle to OD. Or back of the endzone to Graham. Or fades to Kevin bleeping Walter. Kubiak has been very clear that Andre is nothing but a decoy down there.


I used to think that, and - to some extent - I agree. However, 112 grabs and only FOUR TDs? It's not like AJ is some one trick pony, who can only find paydirt on a few routes.

This SEASON, we saw the full gambit in those four TDs - we saw the RZ throw where AJ makes a nice grab against Miami for TD #1, we saw the aired out bomb on the 60+ yarder against Denver for TD #2, we saw the tackle breaking, YAC-gaining 40 yarder against the Jags for TD #3, and we saw the short slant inside the 10 against the Colts for TD #4.

I can admit, the playcalling doesn't lend itself to many chances, but when a number is THAT far out of proportion, when can we say "Dammit AJ, break a tackle or two and make a play," once in a while?


Schaub's noodle arm doesn't help.


Here's a stat I found interesting, courtesy of RandyMossIsBoss in NFL General:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=509345&start=0

RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
In parentheses I give the % of the specified stat out of the total intentional attempts. The "Bad Throw" stat is just the number of passes that were more to blame on the QB (overthrow, underthrown, wide) rather than the skill of a CB. The "adjusted QBR," is that players passer rating not including attempts and INTs that weren't his arms fault or were intentionally thrown away (throw aways, spikes, drops, batted, miscommunications, etc.). The Adjusted QBR is more to show how good of a thrower they were, of course it ignores questionable intangibles. Expect adjusted QBRs to be fairly high because they basically are favoring the QB in every instance. (I'm just using QBR as abbreviation here, not at all related to ESPNs total QBR.) Here are an initial 20 QB's stats, I'll add more later. QBs are listed in order of their adjusted QBR

Matt Schaub
25 Passes Dropped
33 Overthrown (6.4%), 2 INTs
13 Underthrown (2.5%), 1 INT
29 Thrown Wide (5.5%), 1 INT
75 "Bad Throws" (14.4%), 5 INTs
9 Passes Batted At Line (1.7%)
Adjusted QBR: 104.9

These stats were compiled using STATS LLC data which can be found on SI.com


33 Overthrown passes, 13 Underthrown passes. Initial reaction is to say he doesn't have the arm strength, but actual snap-by-snap analysis states that Schaub is more prone to OVERTHROW someone.

I'm not one to defend Matt Schaub - guy has been bad, guy is part of the problem. My reaction is to the underthrows; The stats and snap review are telling a different story...

DD80 wrote:
Look at Dez and AJ Green and what their offensive coordinators dial up when they're inside the 10. They get at least 1 fade/jump ball opportunity every possession. Andre? He gets maybe 1 every season

I can agree with this, our offense tends to shy away from AJ. I think we can all agree with this.
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 14055
Location: Elkhorn, WI
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
DreDay80 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Now, at the risk of being attacked by the masses - 112/1598 is a FANTASTIC season, but to have those numbers and ONLY score 4 TDs is nothing short of a failure. I think the only WR to post 100+ receptions and have such a poor season catching TD passes was Wes Welker in 2009. Nobody cared, because Randy Moss caught 13 TD passes.

Either you catch that many passes and score TDs, or you open up someone else to catch TDs. If you have THAT many catches, THAT many yards...not scoring TDs needs to be a mark that's held against you.


I don't think it is a mark. It raises questions about why.

But we know why. It's the same reason he's always had low TD numbers. We generally don't look his way at all from the 10 yard line in. We are happy with dumps over the middle to OD. Or back of the endzone to Graham. Or fades to Kevin bleeping Walter. Kubiak has been very clear that Andre is nothing but a decoy down there.


I used to think that, and - to some extent - I agree. However, 112 grabs and only FOUR TDs? It's not like AJ is some one trick pony, who can only find paydirt on a few routes.

This SEASON, we saw the full gambit in those four TDs - we saw the RZ throw where AJ makes a nice grab against Miami for TD #1, we saw the aired out bomb on the 60+ yarder against Denver for TD #2, we saw the tackle breaking, YAC-gaining 40 yarder against the Jags for TD #3, and we saw the short slant inside the 10 against the Colts for TD #4.

I can admit, the playcalling doesn't lend itself to many chances, but when a number is THAT far out of proportion, when can we say "Dammit AJ, break a tackle or two and make a play," once in a while?


Schaub's noodle arm doesn't help.


Here's a stat I found interesting, courtesy of RandyMossIsBoss in NFL General:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=509345&start=0

RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
In parentheses I give the % of the specified stat out of the total intentional attempts. The "Bad Throw" stat is just the number of passes that were more to blame on the QB (overthrow, underthrown, wide) rather than the skill of a CB. The "adjusted QBR," is that players passer rating not including attempts and INTs that weren't his arms fault or were intentionally thrown away (throw aways, spikes, drops, batted, miscommunications, etc.). The Adjusted QBR is more to show how good of a thrower they were, of course it ignores questionable intangibles. Expect adjusted QBRs to be fairly high because they basically are favoring the QB in every instance. (I'm just using QBR as abbreviation here, not at all related to ESPNs total QBR.) Here are an initial 20 QB's stats, I'll add more later. QBs are listed in order of their adjusted QBR

Matt Schaub
25 Passes Dropped
33 Overthrown (6.4%), 2 INTs
13 Underthrown (2.5%), 1 INT
29 Thrown Wide (5.5%), 1 INT
75 "Bad Throws" (14.4%), 5 INTs
9 Passes Batted At Line (1.7%)
Adjusted QBR: 104.9

These stats were compiled using STATS LLC data which can be found on SI.com


33 Overthrown passes, 13 Underthrown passes. Initial reaction is to say he doesn't have the arm strength, but actual snap-by-snap analysis states that Schaub is more prone to OVERTHROW someone.

I'm not one to defend Matt Schaub - guy has been bad, guy is part of the problem. My reaction is to the underthrows; The stats and snap review are telling a different story...

DD80 wrote:
Look at Dez and AJ Green and what their offensive coordinators dial up when they're inside the 10. They get at least 1 fade/jump ball opportunity every possession. Andre? He gets maybe 1 every season

I can agree with this, our offense tends to shy away from AJ. I think we can all agree with this.


Yea, but stats don't tell it all, Im willing to bet the over throws are on shorter to medium routes and the under throws are on the long routes, thats the problem with his arm, he lacks zip on his passes and the brute strength to get it down field in a hurry and accurately
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DreDay80


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Yup. That first pick in the NE game was actually a good read. Schaub just doesn't have the arm to fit it in. Any strong-armed QB would have made that throw. Do you guys remember the 2010 season? AJ should of had 10+ touchdowns but Schaub underthrew a sure-fire TD on a weekly basis. Laughing
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texansfan


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 5618
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, Andre doesn't look like the dominant WR he was in his 20s. I don't think he can outjump, outrun, or overpower CBs like he used to. He is still an excellent receiver whose bread and butter this season has been finding the soft spot in the zone and gaining some extra yards. So I wouldn't throw as many jump balls or fades as he used to get. However, I am not sure why him and Schaub haven't been working on the back-shoulder throw that Aaron Rodgers has perfected.
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texansfan


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 5618
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
texansfan wrote:
We did finish the regular season at 12-4 guys. It is disappointing to think about what could have been, but we shouldn't discredit the fact that we were really good throughout this season. It looks bad right now, but who is to say that we can't catch fire in the playoffs.


who cares what our record is, id rather be 10-6 and dominating people right now....not 12-4 and playing like azz


Geezus. I have been a fan of this team since Day 1 and struggled through a lot of bad years with Carr/Casserly/Capers before enduring some mediocrity for the first stretch of Schaub/Kubiak/Smith. Sue me if I see some silver lining out of the best regular season we have ever put together.
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Grasspike


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Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
DreDay80 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Now, at the risk of being attacked by the masses - 112/1598 is a FANTASTIC season, but to have those numbers and ONLY score 4 TDs is nothing short of a failure. I think the only WR to post 100+ receptions and have such a poor season catching TD passes was Wes Welker in 2009. Nobody cared, because Randy Moss caught 13 TD passes.

Either you catch that many passes and score TDs, or you open up someone else to catch TDs. If you have THAT many catches, THAT many yards...not scoring TDs needs to be a mark that's held against you.


I don't think it is a mark. It raises questions about why.

But we know why. It's the same reason he's always had low TD numbers. We generally don't look his way at all from the 10 yard line in. We are happy with dumps over the middle to OD. Or back of the endzone to Graham. Or fades to Kevin bleeping Walter. Kubiak has been very clear that Andre is nothing but a decoy down there.


I used to think that, and - to some extent - I agree. However, 112 grabs and only FOUR TDs? It's not like AJ is some one trick pony, who can only find paydirt on a few routes.

This SEASON, we saw the full gambit in those four TDs - we saw the RZ throw where AJ makes a nice grab against Miami for TD #1, we saw the aired out bomb on the 60+ yarder against Denver for TD #2, we saw the tackle breaking, YAC-gaining 40 yarder against the Jags for TD #3, and we saw the short slant inside the 10 against the Colts for TD #4.

I can admit, the playcalling doesn't lend itself to many chances, but when a number is THAT far out of proportion, when can we say "Dammit AJ, break a tackle or two and make a play," once in a while?


Schaub's noodle arm doesn't help.


Here's a stat I found interesting, courtesy of RandyMossIsBoss in NFL General:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=509345&start=0

RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
In parentheses I give the % of the specified stat out of the total intentional attempts. The "Bad Throw" stat is just the number of passes that were more to blame on the QB (overthrow, underthrown, wide) rather than the skill of a CB. The "adjusted QBR," is that players passer rating not including attempts and INTs that weren't his arms fault or were intentionally thrown away (throw aways, spikes, drops, batted, miscommunications, etc.). The Adjusted QBR is more to show how good of a thrower they were, of course it ignores questionable intangibles. Expect adjusted QBRs to be fairly high because they basically are favoring the QB in every instance. (I'm just using QBR as abbreviation here, not at all related to ESPNs total QBR.) Here are an initial 20 QB's stats, I'll add more later. QBs are listed in order of their adjusted QBR

Matt Schaub
25 Passes Dropped
33 Overthrown (6.4%), 2 INTs
13 Underthrown (2.5%), 1 INT
29 Thrown Wide (5.5%), 1 INT
75 "Bad Throws" (14.4%), 5 INTs
9 Passes Batted At Line (1.7%)
Adjusted QBR: 104.9

These stats were compiled using STATS LLC data which can be found on SI.com


33 Overthrown passes, 13 Underthrown passes. Initial reaction is to say he doesn't have the arm strength, but actual snap-by-snap analysis states that Schaub is more prone to OVERTHROW someone.

I'm not one to defend Matt Schaub - guy has been bad, guy is part of the problem. My reaction is to the underthrows; The stats and snap review are telling a different story...

DD80 wrote:
Look at Dez and AJ Green and what their offensive coordinators dial up when they're inside the 10. They get at least 1 fade/jump ball opportunity every possession. Andre? He gets maybe 1 every season

I can agree with this, our offense tends to shy away from AJ. I think we can all agree with this.


Yea, but stats don't tell it all, Im willing to bet the over throws are on shorter to medium routes and the under throws are on the long routes, thats the problem with his arm, he lacks zip on his passes and the brute strength to get it down field in a hurry and accurately


I actually agree with ax2 here, mostly. Except I think most overthrows AND underthrows occurred on short and medium passes, and that a lot of the "bad passes" are likely balls that were underthrown enough that a DB caught up to the receiver and batted away the pass. These statistics are too vague to really point to anything.
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 14055
Location: Elkhorn, WI
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grasspike wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
DreDay80 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Now, at the risk of being attacked by the masses - 112/1598 is a FANTASTIC season, but to have those numbers and ONLY score 4 TDs is nothing short of a failure. I think the only WR to post 100+ receptions and have such a poor season catching TD passes was Wes Welker in 2009. Nobody cared, because Randy Moss caught 13 TD passes.

Either you catch that many passes and score TDs, or you open up someone else to catch TDs. If you have THAT many catches, THAT many yards...not scoring TDs needs to be a mark that's held against you.


I don't think it is a mark. It raises questions about why.

But we know why. It's the same reason he's always had low TD numbers. We generally don't look his way at all from the 10 yard line in. We are happy with dumps over the middle to OD. Or back of the endzone to Graham. Or fades to Kevin bleeping Walter. Kubiak has been very clear that Andre is nothing but a decoy down there.


I used to think that, and - to some extent - I agree. However, 112 grabs and only FOUR TDs? It's not like AJ is some one trick pony, who can only find paydirt on a few routes.

This SEASON, we saw the full gambit in those four TDs - we saw the RZ throw where AJ makes a nice grab against Miami for TD #1, we saw the aired out bomb on the 60+ yarder against Denver for TD #2, we saw the tackle breaking, YAC-gaining 40 yarder against the Jags for TD #3, and we saw the short slant inside the 10 against the Colts for TD #4.

I can admit, the playcalling doesn't lend itself to many chances, but when a number is THAT far out of proportion, when can we say "Dammit AJ, break a tackle or two and make a play," once in a while?


Schaub's noodle arm doesn't help.


Here's a stat I found interesting, courtesy of RandyMossIsBoss in NFL General:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=509345&start=0

RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
In parentheses I give the % of the specified stat out of the total intentional attempts. The "Bad Throw" stat is just the number of passes that were more to blame on the QB (overthrow, underthrown, wide) rather than the skill of a CB. The "adjusted QBR," is that players passer rating not including attempts and INTs that weren't his arms fault or were intentionally thrown away (throw aways, spikes, drops, batted, miscommunications, etc.). The Adjusted QBR is more to show how good of a thrower they were, of course it ignores questionable intangibles. Expect adjusted QBRs to be fairly high because they basically are favoring the QB in every instance. (I'm just using QBR as abbreviation here, not at all related to ESPNs total QBR.) Here are an initial 20 QB's stats, I'll add more later. QBs are listed in order of their adjusted QBR

Matt Schaub
25 Passes Dropped
33 Overthrown (6.4%), 2 INTs
13 Underthrown (2.5%), 1 INT
29 Thrown Wide (5.5%), 1 INT
75 "Bad Throws" (14.4%), 5 INTs
9 Passes Batted At Line (1.7%)
Adjusted QBR: 104.9

These stats were compiled using STATS LLC data which can be found on SI.com


33 Overthrown passes, 13 Underthrown passes. Initial reaction is to say he doesn't have the arm strength, but actual snap-by-snap analysis states that Schaub is more prone to OVERTHROW someone.

I'm not one to defend Matt Schaub - guy has been bad, guy is part of the problem. My reaction is to the underthrows; The stats and snap review are telling a different story...

DD80 wrote:
Look at Dez and AJ Green and what their offensive coordinators dial up when they're inside the 10. They get at least 1 fade/jump ball opportunity every possession. Andre? He gets maybe 1 every season

I can agree with this, our offense tends to shy away from AJ. I think we can all agree with this.


Yea, but stats don't tell it all, Im willing to bet the over throws are on shorter to medium routes and the under throws are on the long routes, thats the problem with his arm, he lacks zip on his passes and the brute strength to get it down field in a hurry and accurately


I actually agree with ax2 here, mostly. Except I think most overthrows AND underthrows occurred on short and medium passes, and that a lot of the "bad passes" are likely balls that were underthrown enough that a DB caught up to the receiver and batted away the pass. These statistics are too vague to really point to anything.


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DreDay80


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

texansfan wrote:
To me, Andre doesn't look like the dominant WR he was in his 20s. I don't think he can outjump, outrun, or overpower CBs like he used to. He is still an excellent receiver whose bread and butter this season has been finding the soft spot in the zone and gaining some extra yards. So I wouldn't throw as many jump balls or fades as he used to get. However, I am not sure why him and Schaub haven't been working on the back-shoulder throw that Aaron Rodgers has perfected.


Andre's definitely lost the athleticism that made him one of the most feared players in the league but his route-running is arguably the best in the league. He doesn't rely on his athleticism as much as people think. I honestly believe he'll get 1500 yards AGAIN next season as long as he stays healthy.
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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 5521
Location: Battle Red State
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
Grasspike wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
DreDay80 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Now, at the risk of being attacked by the masses - 112/1598 is a FANTASTIC season, but to have those numbers and ONLY score 4 TDs is nothing short of a failure. I think the only WR to post 100+ receptions and have such a poor season catching TD passes was Wes Welker in 2009. Nobody cared, because Randy Moss caught 13 TD passes.

Either you catch that many passes and score TDs, or you open up someone else to catch TDs. If you have THAT many catches, THAT many yards...not scoring TDs needs to be a mark that's held against you.


I don't think it is a mark. It raises questions about why.

But we know why. It's the same reason he's always had low TD numbers. We generally don't look his way at all from the 10 yard line in. We are happy with dumps over the middle to OD. Or back of the endzone to Graham. Or fades to Kevin bleeping Walter. Kubiak has been very clear that Andre is nothing but a decoy down there.


I used to think that, and - to some extent - I agree. However, 112 grabs and only FOUR TDs? It's not like AJ is some one trick pony, who can only find paydirt on a few routes.

This SEASON, we saw the full gambit in those four TDs - we saw the RZ throw where AJ makes a nice grab against Miami for TD #1, we saw the aired out bomb on the 60+ yarder against Denver for TD #2, we saw the tackle breaking, YAC-gaining 40 yarder against the Jags for TD #3, and we saw the short slant inside the 10 against the Colts for TD #4.

I can admit, the playcalling doesn't lend itself to many chances, but when a number is THAT far out of proportion, when can we say "Dammit AJ, break a tackle or two and make a play," once in a while?


Schaub's noodle arm doesn't help.


Here's a stat I found interesting, courtesy of RandyMossIsBoss in NFL General:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=509345&start=0

RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
In parentheses I give the % of the specified stat out of the total intentional attempts. The "Bad Throw" stat is just the number of passes that were more to blame on the QB (overthrow, underthrown, wide) rather than the skill of a CB. The "adjusted QBR," is that players passer rating not including attempts and INTs that weren't his arms fault or were intentionally thrown away (throw aways, spikes, drops, batted, miscommunications, etc.). The Adjusted QBR is more to show how good of a thrower they were, of course it ignores questionable intangibles. Expect adjusted QBRs to be fairly high because they basically are favoring the QB in every instance. (I'm just using QBR as abbreviation here, not at all related to ESPNs total QBR.) Here are an initial 20 QB's stats, I'll add more later. QBs are listed in order of their adjusted QBR

Matt Schaub
25 Passes Dropped
33 Overthrown (6.4%), 2 INTs
13 Underthrown (2.5%), 1 INT
29 Thrown Wide (5.5%), 1 INT
75 "Bad Throws" (14.4%), 5 INTs
9 Passes Batted At Line (1.7%)
Adjusted QBR: 104.9

These stats were compiled using STATS LLC data which can be found on SI.com


33 Overthrown passes, 13 Underthrown passes. Initial reaction is to say he doesn't have the arm strength, but actual snap-by-snap analysis states that Schaub is more prone to OVERTHROW someone.

I'm not one to defend Matt Schaub - guy has been bad, guy is part of the problem. My reaction is to the underthrows; The stats and snap review are telling a different story...

DD80 wrote:
Look at Dez and AJ Green and what their offensive coordinators dial up when they're inside the 10. They get at least 1 fade/jump ball opportunity every possession. Andre? He gets maybe 1 every season

I can agree with this, our offense tends to shy away from AJ. I think we can all agree with this.


Yea, but stats don't tell it all, Im willing to bet the over throws are on shorter to medium routes and the under throws are on the long routes, thats the problem with his arm, he lacks zip on his passes and the brute strength to get it down field in a hurry and accurately


I actually agree with ax2 here, mostly. Except I think most overthrows AND underthrows occurred on short and medium passes, and that a lot of the "bad passes" are likely balls that were underthrown enough that a DB caught up to the receiver and batted away the pass. These statistics are too vague to really point to anything.


I knew we were twins Cool


I hate that I again have to come to Schaub's defense as I'm frustrated with him as well and most certainly AM NOT an apologist, but I just can't let some inaccuracies go unaddressed. I once questioned Schaub's arm strength and deep accuracy as well and he absolutely showed signs in 09 & 10 of shoulder trouble that impacted his deep accuracy but absolutely NOT the past two years. Recall that I was once staunchly against the Texans bothering to acquire a deep threat because I thought it would be wasted with Schaub, but that changed thru the course of last season and this season.

I do not pretend to be an x's and o's guy or talent evaluator but in 2011 I was fortunate enough to sit with one for a preseason game and I also went to a private camp session with him this offseason. I expressed my concerns to him and he agreed that Schaub has had bouts with shoulder issues impacting his long ball in the past but two years in a row he sat for an hour pointing out the true demonstrations of arm strength Schaub exhibits and how perfect he is for this system. In particular, he pointed out all the sideline passes that Schaub puts on a rope and that those throws are amongst the truest demonstrations of arm strength and that Schaub is largely regarded as possessing an elite arm strength : accuracy combo (he explained that being able to throw the ball for distance is a relatively poor measurement of QB translatable skills and offered up examples like our punter who could throw for miles but that people who throw like this are more like javelin throwers with a trajectory on thrown balls that just doesn't work in the NFL (see also Jamarcus Russell who had length but no speed or accuracy).

He largely credited Knapp in fixing some problems in his delivery inhibited his deep throws and also improved the zip on his mid range passes - which has greatly helped reduce his ints. This is born out in these stats and I suspect if you examined 07-10 you would see many more underthrown balls and almost none last year. I do concede that Schaub's arm does not look as "crisp" of late which is why I wish Kubiak had the balls to bring in Greg Knapp this week for a tune up. Remember, Knapp helped turn Vick into a legit passer in Atlanta. He continues to prove the Peter Principle each time he gets elevated to OC, but this guy is a hell of a QB coach. This same guy audibly laughed at some of TJ Yates passes in 2011 preseason and in 2012 camp said he was amazed the Knapp made a passable NFL QB out of Yates (who he still says should never be a starter as his baseline arm strength would never translate to accuracy beyond 20 yards akin to Brady Quinn.)

Again, Schaub has other problems mostly in between the earholes and there may be something to a theory about some late season "dead arm" but it is patently false to describe Schaub as lacking in arm strength in general or ability to put balls on a wire deep. Go watch the Broncos game again folks. The biggest problem with the Texans deep game is that the one guy who goes deep (AJ) is always double teamed and Schaub has smartly stopped forcing the ball to him. I also think the hammy/groin issues have had the Texans reluctant to send him deep on a flat out sprint too often. Walter has clearly lost a step, Jean has no ability to separate against real NFL corners (as opposed to 6th string preseason fodder), Posey struggled picking up the system, and Martin hasn't run a deep route all season that I remember and can't catch a 3 yard square-in so why bother with a 30 yarder? Let's also acknowledge that the protection on the Right Side greatly reduces the time available for deep routes to develop especially the crappy RG play that has people jailbreaking right up the middle that Tom Brady can't even handle, better yet Schaub who has never reacted to pressure particularly well.

Again, he's not a hall of famer and has his flaws, but core arm strength isn't one of them at least, not when healthy. Again, I am MUCH more concerned with Arian Foster's power and Jonathan Joseph's speed right now than Schaub's arm.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
Grasspike wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
DreDay80 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Now, at the risk of being attacked by the masses - 112/1598 is a FANTASTIC season, but to have those numbers and ONLY score 4 TDs is nothing short of a failure. I think the only WR to post 100+ receptions and have such a poor season catching TD passes was Wes Welker in 2009. Nobody cared, because Randy Moss caught 13 TD passes.

Either you catch that many passes and score TDs, or you open up someone else to catch TDs. If you have THAT many catches, THAT many yards...not scoring TDs needs to be a mark that's held against you.


I don't think it is a mark. It raises questions about why.

But we know why. It's the same reason he's always had low TD numbers. We generally don't look his way at all from the 10 yard line in. We are happy with dumps over the middle to OD. Or back of the endzone to Graham. Or fades to Kevin bleeping Walter. Kubiak has been very clear that Andre is nothing but a decoy down there.


I used to think that, and - to some extent - I agree. However, 112 grabs and only FOUR TDs? It's not like AJ is some one trick pony, who can only find paydirt on a few routes.

This SEASON, we saw the full gambit in those four TDs - we saw the RZ throw where AJ makes a nice grab against Miami for TD #1, we saw the aired out bomb on the 60+ yarder against Denver for TD #2, we saw the tackle breaking, YAC-gaining 40 yarder against the Jags for TD #3, and we saw the short slant inside the 10 against the Colts for TD #4.

I can admit, the playcalling doesn't lend itself to many chances, but when a number is THAT far out of proportion, when can we say "Dammit AJ, break a tackle or two and make a play," once in a while?


Schaub's noodle arm doesn't help.


Here's a stat I found interesting, courtesy of RandyMossIsBoss in NFL General:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=509345&start=0

RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
In parentheses I give the % of the specified stat out of the total intentional attempts. The "Bad Throw" stat is just the number of passes that were more to blame on the QB (overthrow, underthrown, wide) rather than the skill of a CB. The "adjusted QBR," is that players passer rating not including attempts and INTs that weren't his arms fault or were intentionally thrown away (throw aways, spikes, drops, batted, miscommunications, etc.). The Adjusted QBR is more to show how good of a thrower they were, of course it ignores questionable intangibles. Expect adjusted QBRs to be fairly high because they basically are favoring the QB in every instance. (I'm just using QBR as abbreviation here, not at all related to ESPNs total QBR.) Here are an initial 20 QB's stats, I'll add more later. QBs are listed in order of their adjusted QBR

Matt Schaub
25 Passes Dropped
33 Overthrown (6.4%), 2 INTs
13 Underthrown (2.5%), 1 INT
29 Thrown Wide (5.5%), 1 INT
75 "Bad Throws" (14.4%), 5 INTs
9 Passes Batted At Line (1.7%)
Adjusted QBR: 104.9

These stats were compiled using STATS LLC data which can be found on SI.com


33 Overthrown passes, 13 Underthrown passes. Initial reaction is to say he doesn't have the arm strength, but actual snap-by-snap analysis states that Schaub is more prone to OVERTHROW someone.

I'm not one to defend Matt Schaub - guy has been bad, guy is part of the problem. My reaction is to the underthrows; The stats and snap review are telling a different story...

DD80 wrote:
Look at Dez and AJ Green and what their offensive coordinators dial up when they're inside the 10. They get at least 1 fade/jump ball opportunity every possession. Andre? He gets maybe 1 every season

I can agree with this, our offense tends to shy away from AJ. I think we can all agree with this.


Yea, but stats don't tell it all, Im willing to bet the over throws are on shorter to medium routes and the under throws are on the long routes, thats the problem with his arm, he lacks zip on his passes and the brute strength to get it down field in a hurry and accurately


I actually agree with ax2 here, mostly. Except I think most overthrows AND underthrows occurred on short and medium passes, and that a lot of the "bad passes" are likely balls that were underthrown enough that a DB caught up to the receiver and batted away the pass. These statistics are too vague to really point to anything.


I knew we were twins Cool


I hate that I again have to come to Schaub's defense as I'm frustrated with him as well and most certainly AM NOT an apologist, but I just can't let some inaccuracies go unaddressed. I once questioned Schaub's arm strength and deep accuracy as well and he absolutely showed signs in 09 & 10 of shoulder trouble that impacted his deep accuracy but absolutely NOT the past two years. Recall that I was once staunchly against the Texans bothering to acquire a deep threat because I thought it would be wasted with Schaub, but that changed thru the course of last season and this season.

I do not pretend to be an x's and o's guy or talent evaluator but in 2011 I was fortunate enough to sit with one for a preseason game and I also went to a private camp session with him this offseason. I expressed my concerns to him and he agreed that Schaub has had bouts with shoulder issues impacting his long ball in the past but two years in a row he sat for an hour pointing out the true demonstrations of arm strength Schaub exhibits and how perfect he is for this system. In particular, he pointed out all the sideline passes that Schaub puts on a rope and that those throws are amongst the truest demonstrations of arm strength and that Schaub is largely regarded as possessing an elite arm strength : accuracy combo (he explained that being able to throw the ball for distance is a relatively poor measurement of QB translatable skills and offered up examples like our punter who could throw for miles but that people who throw like this are more like javelin throwers with a trajectory on thrown balls that just doesn't work in the NFL (see also Jamarcus Russell who had length but no speed or accuracy).

He largely credited Knapp in fixing some problems in his delivery inhibited his deep throws and also improved the zip on his mid range passes - which has greatly helped reduce his ints. This is born out in these stats and I suspect if you examined 07-10 you would see many more underthrown balls and almost none last year. I do concede that Schaub's arm does not look as "crisp" of late which is why I wish Kubiak had the balls to bring in Greg Knapp this week for a tune up. Remember, Knapp helped turn Vick into a legit passer in Atlanta. He continues to prove the Peter Principle each time he gets elevated to OC, but this guy is a hell of a QB coach. This same guy audibly laughed at some of TJ Yates passes in 2011 preseason and in 2012 camp said he was amazed the Knapp made a passable NFL QB out of Yates (who he still says should never be a starter as his baseline arm strength would never translate to accuracy beyond 20 yards akin to Brady Quinn.)

Again, Schaub has other problems mostly in between the earholes and there may be something to a theory about some late season "dead arm" but it is patently false to describe Schaub as lacking in arm strength in general or ability to put balls on a wire deep. Go watch the Broncos game again folks. The biggest problem with the Texans deep game is that the one guy who goes deep (AJ) is always double teamed and Schaub has smartly stopped forcing the ball to him. I also think the hammy/groin issues have had the Texans reluctant to send him deep on a flat out sprint too often. Walter has clearly lost a step, Jean has no ability to separate against real NFL corners (as opposed to 6th string preseason fodder), Posey struggled picking up the system, and Martin hasn't run a deep route all season that I remember and can't catch a 3 yard square-in so why bother with a 30 yarder? Let's also acknowledge that the protection on the Right Side greatly reduces the time available for deep routes to develop especially the crappy RG play that has people jailbreaking right up the middle that Tom Brady can't even handle, better yet Schaub who has never reacted to pressure particularly well.

Again, he's not a hall of famer and has his flaws, but core arm strength isn't one of them at least, not when healthy. Again, I am MUCH more concerned with Arian Foster's power and Jonathan Joseph's speed right now than Schaub's arm.


Call it what you want, but my eyes tell me he is TERRIBLY inaccurate on deep routes and most tend to fall short.....spin that however you wish
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