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Nate Allen:Brandon Graham::2012:2011
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Hockey5djh


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 16628
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Nate Allen:Brandon Graham::2012:2011 Reply with quote

For those that don't get the thread title....Why is Nate Allen in 2012 being treated like Brandon Graham was in 2011?

Brandon Graham had a slow rookie year, like MANY players do in the NFL and tore his ACL at the end of the season. In 2011, he came back to the team and was labeled a bust and consistently being compared to JPP (who <5% of this board wanted on the team) even though he was still "recovering" from a well known two year injury. In 2012, he finally started getting some starting snaps and ended the year on a high note piling up 4 sacks in the last 5 games of the season. You now see Graham making 85-90%* of peoples "What 5 players would you keep" lists.

Nate Allen is in a similar situation. He actually came into his rookie year and lit the world on fire in the first 3-4 games and tapered off slightly. Allen ended up rupturing his patellar tendon forcing Kurt Coleman into a starting position. Allen is currently being cut in 80%* of mocks on this forum despite suffering a pretty significant injury and working his way back onto the field.


So I ask my Eagles Forum bretheren...why is Nate Allen getting the "Brandon Graham Treatment"?




* These percentages are not 100% accurate just picked a number that seemed reasonable and satisfied my need to make a point.
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Applause Shocked

I can't believe this...

Someone who actually isn't calling for Nate's head.

I think with the right coach/scheme he could be a good Centerfielding Safety.

But I'm a homer.
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oland11


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see no reason why we shouldn't let him compete fr a starting role next year, IMO.
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PhiCelek87


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't cut him, but I'd certainly be willing to listen to offers for him - even a late round pick I'd probably jump at.
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ninjapirate


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Safety is a very cerebral position, if Nate has lost all of his confidence he probably never amounts to anything. A safety can't second guess himself.
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm willing to give Nathaniel Allen another year to see what he can do at full health, as long as he is playing the center field type of free safety role. But I do believe we should bring in some competition to push him.
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nlesthought


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The things I don't like about him prior to rookie yr:

He's not physical in the least, more of a jump on the pile guy

He doesn't attack the football in coverage/tackling

Now that maybe asking for a lot, Dawkins is part to blame, but I don't see a high ceiling on this guy since 1 he never was explosive and the lack of ball skills /coverage skills makes him a typical AR reach.

I wouldn't mind him coming back to compete/play ST because we are definitely rebuilding but when we were in "win now" mode I wouldn't count on him to be a solid starter.
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhiCelek87 wrote:
I wouldn't cut him, but I'd certainly be willing to listen to offers for him - even a late round pick I'd probably jump at.


This is what I'm talking about...why is Allen for a late rounder a good deal for the Eagles? especially considering Safety is one of our weaker areas.

What late round pick is going to come in and help the Eagles more than Nate allen will, one more year removed from his injury with a full offseason of conditioning.
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Hammertime52


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly thought he'd be a complete beast this year. I'll give him one more year before i give up on him.
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PhiCelek87


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
PhiCelek87 wrote:
I wouldn't cut him, but I'd certainly be willing to listen to offers for him - even a late round pick I'd probably jump at.


This is what I'm talking about...why is Allen for a late rounder a good deal for the Eagles? especially considering Safety is one of our weaker areas.

What late round pick is going to come in and help the Eagles more than Nate allen will, one more year removed from his injury with a full offseason of conditioning.


Nate ruptured his patella tendon in 2010, came back in 2011 and was slow - he's now two full seasons removed from the injury. He's one of the major reasons why the Eagles are currently weak at safety.

Graham - now two years removed from his injury - has flashed and played well when given the opportunity.

How many chances do you want to give the guy? Like I said, I am okay with keeping him, but if we get an offer for late round pick - I'm probably taking it to improve depth elsewhere on the team or take a shot on a guy, who's undervalued based on injury (Carradine, Smith, etc.).

I expect high turnover at safety with a free agent brought in and a relatively high draft pick (2nd/3rd) used on the position.
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willy_law


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did a mock where we kept Allen. I brought in 3 new safeties. I think Allen needs to be challenged but I also think he does have good center-fielding safety ability. I am willing to give him 1 more season and based off his play we go from there.
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Meco


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because Brandon Graham was actually good before he injured his knee and he was stuck behind a pro-bowl defensive end after he finally recovered. Nate Allen's knee injury wasn't as significant, he wasn't playing as well when he got hurt and he's had no similar obstacles for playing time. Brandon Graham has always shown promise, it's been a long, long time since Nate Allen has shown promise. Allen just hasn't played well since the first month of his rookie season.

Could a new scheme/coach save him? Sure but I'm not betting on it. He's a hesitant run support safety who is mistake prone in coverage. What is he good for?
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of Allens problems come from no confidence. If a Coach can give him it back or help him on the way.
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LOLKevinKolb


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nate Allen lacks confidence in Nate Allen because he knows Nate Allen is pretty terrible
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhiCelek87 wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
PhiCelek87 wrote:
I wouldn't cut him, but I'd certainly be willing to listen to offers for him - even a late round pick I'd probably jump at.


This is what I'm talking about...why is Allen for a late rounder a good deal for the Eagles? especially considering Safety is one of our weaker areas.

What late round pick is going to come in and help the Eagles more than Nate allen will, one more year removed from his injury with a full offseason of conditioning.


Nate ruptured his patella tendon in 2010, came back in 2011 and was slow - he's now two full seasons removed from the injury. He's one of the major reasons why the Eagles are currently weak at safety.

Graham - now two years removed from his injury - has flashed and played well when given the opportunity.

How many chances do you want to give the guy? Like I said, I am okay with keeping him, but if we get an offer for late round pick - I'm probably taking it to improve depth elsewhere on the team or take a shot on a guy, who's undervalued based on injury (Carradine, Smith, etc.).

I expect high turnover at safety with a free agent brought in and a relatively high draft pick (2nd/3rd) used on the position.


I think playing next to Kurt Coleman's decision making skills would slow down even a completely healthy All-Pro.

I don't mind bringing in players to challenge, at any position, ever. I just think that casting aside a second round pick (that wasn't two rounds over drafted like Jarrett) after a little over two seasons with a major injury in the middle is skeptical to say the least.
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