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devils1854


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 22263
Location: Tyler Starr, Adopt a Falcon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt2roddy wrote:
devils1854 wrote:
FalconFan13 wrote:
Lentz33 wrote:
devils1854 wrote:
Lentz33 wrote:
devils1854 wrote:
TD doesn't trade back. Didn't look at the rest of it once I saw that


I'm sure if it made sense TD would trade back.

And the trade makes no sense. Why trade a 1st and a 2nd for two 2nds?


Why do you assume that he would trade back? He did it once in the 4th rd in 5 drafts. I'm sure he has had plenty of offers that have "made sense." He is an aggressive GM. He has traded up at least once every draft, so having any mock where we trade back isn't worth looking at, because its not realistic.


Well I'm not "assuming" anything. But I'm willing to put money down that if he had a trade back opportunity that would better this Falcons team he would do it in a second.


You are correct he would as would any GM rather they have done it yet or not doesn't mean they won't. To think other wise is asinine.


Well in that case, mocking a player that has been arrested or has had personal problems should be ok. It's clearly not TDs philosophy, just like trading back, but since its asinine to think TD wouldn't trade back, it's equally asinine to think he wouldn't take a troubled player if it improves the team.

Its different. Drafting a player with character concerns has a high chance of hurting the football team and damaging the structure that TD and Smith have been putting together for the past 5 years.
But if there comes an opportunity to trade back and TD feels that it can help the football team, he's gonna do it. Belichick didn't always used to trade back either, so using the "he hasn't done it so he never will" argument doesn't have quite as much viability here IMO.


It is exactly the same thing. We have 5 years of history to go by with TD. He has traded up in the 1st twice in those 5 years, but has never traded back in the first 3 rds, and has only done it once EVER.

That's not a coincidence. He is an aggressive GM and goes and gets his guy. You can also say that it's not a coincidence that he doesn't take bad character guys. Those are two things that stand out in his tenure.

So if you are going to take the time to go against his history by showing a trade back, then it's equally as likely that he will take a bad character guy. Translation=it's not going to happen.
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matt2roddy


Joined: 21 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devils, I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. I feel that the reasons for why he hasn't traded down in the first three rounds of the draft and why he hasn't taken a bad character guy are completely different than "Its just his style of drafting."
I think he hasn't taken a bad character guy because he knew as soon as he took over as GM that he would want a locker room full of high character players to provide great structure for the organization.
Although I agree that TD is an aggressive GM, I feel like there just hasn't been a situation where trading down was a better option than trading up/staying put. Julio was TDs guy, TD traded up to get him because he had to. Guys like Spoon, Konz, and Ryan were TDs guys and he HAD to stay at his original pick to get them. But if a situation in the draft comes where TDs guy is taken, I can definitely see him trading down. Is it more likely that he will trade up than down? Absolutely. Is it impossible that he trades down? Absolutely not, IMO.

Not saying that he will trade down in this next draft. Just saying that if you asked TD "Would you ever trade down?" he wouldn't say "Absolutely not, that's not my philosophy." He, like pretty much any other GM in the NFL, would say "Depending on the situation, sure."
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GSUeagles14


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 6110
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

devils1854 wrote:
matt2roddy wrote:
devils1854 wrote:
FalconFan13 wrote:
Lentz33 wrote:
devils1854 wrote:
Lentz33 wrote:
devils1854 wrote:
TD doesn't trade back. Didn't look at the rest of it once I saw that


I'm sure if it made sense TD would trade back.

And the trade makes no sense. Why trade a 1st and a 2nd for two 2nds?


Why do you assume that he would trade back? He did it once in the 4th rd in 5 drafts. I'm sure he has had plenty of offers that have "made sense." He is an aggressive GM. He has traded up at least once every draft, so having any mock where we trade back isn't worth looking at, because its not realistic.


Well I'm not "assuming" anything. But I'm willing to put money down that if he had a trade back opportunity that would better this Falcons team he would do it in a second.


You are correct he would as would any GM rather they have done it yet or not doesn't mean they won't. To think other wise is asinine.


Well in that case, mocking a player that has been arrested or has had personal problems should be ok. It's clearly not TDs philosophy, just like trading back, but since its asinine to think TD wouldn't trade back, it's equally asinine to think he wouldn't take a troubled player if it improves the team.

Its different. Drafting a player with character concerns has a high chance of hurting the football team and damaging the structure that TD and Smith have been putting together for the past 5 years.
But if there comes an opportunity to trade back and TD feels that it can help the football team, he's gonna do it. Belichick didn't always used to trade back either, so using the "he hasn't done it so he never will" argument doesn't have quite as much viability here IMO.


It is exactly the same thing. We have 5 years of history to go by with TD. He has traded up in the 1st twice in those 5 years, but has never traded back in the first 3 rds, and has only done it once EVER.

That's not a coincidence. He is an aggressive GM and goes and gets his guy. You can also say that it's not a coincidence that he doesn't take bad character guys. Those are two things that stand out in his tenure.

So if you are going to take the time to go against his history by showing a trade back, then it's equally as likely that he will take a bad character guy. Translation=it's not going to happen.


It's been stated several times by him that he looks for high character guys and that's very important to him when picking players. Can the same be said about not trading back?
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devils1854


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
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Location: Tyler Starr, Adopt a Falcon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt2roddy wrote:
Devils, I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. I feel that the reasons for why he hasn't traded down in the first three rounds of the draft and why he hasn't taken a bad character guy are completely different than "Its just his style of drafting."
I think he hasn't taken a bad character guy because he knew as soon as he took over as GM that he would want a locker room full of high character players to provide great structure for the organization.
Although I agree that TD is an aggressive GM, I feel like there just hasn't been a situation where trading down was a better option than trading up/staying put. Julio was TDs guy, TD traded up to get him because he had to. Guys like Spoon, Konz, and Ryan were TDs guys and he HAD to stay at his original pick to get them. But if a situation in the draft comes where TDs guy is taken, I can definitely see him trading down. Is it more likely that he will trade up than down? Absolutely. Is it impossible that he trades down? Absolutely not, IMO.

Not saying that he will trade down in this next draft. Just saying that if you asked TD "Would you ever trade down?" he wouldn't say "Absolutely not, that's not my philosophy." He, like pretty much any other GM in the NFL, would say "Depending on the situation, sure."


I'm not trying to say that be will never trade down. I think that sooner or later he will end up taking a high risk guy, just like the organization did in New England, because the roster is full of high character, leader types, and bringing in a project wouldn't hurt. I feel the same way with trading down. If TD is here 15 years, will he trade down once? Probably.

I'm just saying that both scenarios are highly unlikely, because they go against 5 years of data that we have.

I would never mock a trade down or a low character guy to Atlanta until it actually happens.
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Hotlanta12


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need Okafor after watching the Texas-Oregon state game.
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Lentz33


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hotlanta12 wrote:
We need Okafor after watching the Texas-Oregon state game.


Absolutely. Just came in here to say this. 4.5 sacks (should have been 5.5 if you saw the last defensive play) and 9 tackles. The guy was continuously beating double blocking all game.
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swoosh


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta wonder whether he'll even be available at the Falcons pick now. I missed the game, but with a performance like that you have to imagine his stock just flew up.
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devils1854


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had Okafor as a late 1st guy for a while. I doubt this one game will alter that much with the depth at DE this draft

43 DE(my rankings)
1.DaMontre Moore-Texas A&M(top 5 overall)
2.Sam Montgomery-LSU(top 10)
3.Barkevious Mingo-LSU(top 20)
4.Alex Okafor-Texas(top 25)
5.Bjoern Werner-Florida State(top 25)
6.Dion Jordan-Oregon(top 35)
7.Ezekiel Ansah-BYU(top 35)

At least a couple of those guys will be available with our pick.
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Lentz33


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

devils1854 wrote:
I've had Okafor as a late 1st guy for a while. I doubt this one game will alter that much with the depth at DE this draft

43 DE(my rankings)
1.DaMontre Moore-Texas A&M(top 5 overall)
2.Sam Montgomery-LSU(top 10)
3.Barkevious Mingo-LSU(top 20)
4.Alex Okafor-Texas(top 25)
5.Bjoern Werner-Florida State(top 25)
6.Dion Jordan-Oregon(top 35)
7.Ezekiel Ansah-BYU(top 35)

At least a couple of those guys will be available with our pick.


Switch Werner and Mingo and I'd agree with that for the most part.
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devils1854


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lentz33 wrote:
devils1854 wrote:
I've had Okafor as a late 1st guy for a while. I doubt this one game will alter that much with the depth at DE this draft

43 DE(my rankings)
1.DaMontre Moore-Texas A&M(top 5 overall)
2.Sam Montgomery-LSU(top 10)
3.Barkevious Mingo-LSU(top 20)
4.Alex Okafor-Texas(top 25)
5.Bjoern Werner-Florida State(top 25)
6.Dion Jordan-Oregon(top 35)
7.Ezekiel Ansah-BYU(top 35)

At least a couple of those guys will be available with our pick.


Switch Werner and Mingo and I'd agree with that for the most part.


I'm not a big Werner fan. He does have nice potential, but be did get half his sacks in the first 3 games against Savannah State, Murray Statw, and Wake Forest. He disappeared for a good amount of the ACC slate. Tank Carradine outplayed him against good competition, or about as good as you can get in ACC.

Consistency was also a problem for Mingo this year, but I think his potential is through the roof compared to Werner.
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adam9


Joined: 06 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

devils1854 wrote:
I've had Okafor as a late 1st guy for a while. I doubt this one game will alter that much with the depth at DE this draft

43 DE(my rankings)
1.DaMontre Moore-Texas A&M(top 5 overall)
2.Sam Montgomery-LSU(top 10)
3.Barkevious Mingo-LSU(top 20)
4.Alex Okafor-Texas(top 25)
5.Bjoern Werner-Florida State(top 25)
6.Dion Jordan-Oregon(top 35)
7.Ezekiel Ansah-BYU(top 35)

At least a couple of those guys will be available with our pick.

This looks right but I hear the stock is dropping on Montgomery. Not too sure why.. Anzah seems like a guy TD would draft. The good thing is I think after those first 2-3, the next 4 don't have much of a drop off. Jordan, Anzah, and Mingo are all almost on JPP's athletic level IMO.
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devils1854


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam9 wrote:
devils1854 wrote:
I've had Okafor as a late 1st guy for a while. I doubt this one game will alter that much with the depth at DE this draft

43 DE(my rankings)
1.DaMontre Moore-Texas A&M(top 5 overall)
2.Sam Montgomery-LSU(top 10)
3.Barkevious Mingo-LSU(top 20)
4.Alex Okafor-Texas(top 25)
5.Bjoern Werner-Florida State(top 25)
6.Dion Jordan-Oregon(top 35)
7.Ezekiel Ansah-BYU(top 35)

At least a couple of those guys will be available with our pick.

This looks right but I hear the stock is dropping on Montgomery. Not too sure why.. Anzah seems like a guy TD would draft. The good thing is I think after those first 2-3, the next 4 don't have much of a drop off. Jordan, Anzah, and Mingo are all almost on JPP's athletic level IMO.


I don't understand it with Montgomery. He had almost identical seasons in 2011 and 2012. He might have the most upside of any DE. I've never heard of him being a discipline problem, maybe could have better work ethic, but that's not a huge deal.

I could see Okafor being a TD pick. 4 year starter. High character. High production. Maybe not quite the upside of a couple other guys.

I'm worried about one real year of production for Ansah, and I don't quite think the JPP comparison that some are throwing around, is accurate. I think he should go to a 34 team. I think he'll grow into a 5 tech, ending up somewhere around 290-295.
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Hotlanta12


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I can speak for everyone when I say, we just need to draft a DE who is going to have a big impact. Since 2008,

Kroy Biermann
Peria Jerry
Lawrence Sidbury
Vance Walker
Corey Peters
Cliff Matthews
Jonathan Massaquoi

Not to knock Biermann, Jerry, Walker or Peters. The 4 guys from that group that have contributed most but theyre not consistent. We need to draft a guy who can come in and produce right away. These guys are nice players but we need another starter badly. Especially opposite Abe.
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GrimeyKid


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What round is that Olgletree guy from UGA is projected
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matt2roddy


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrimeyKid wrote:
What round is that Olgletree guy from UGA is projected

Mid - late first. Hes a beast.
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