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fracdaddy14


Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3454
Location: Northeastern PA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GmenSeattle wrote:
Tehzl wrote:
GmenSeattle wrote:
Odds on Dee Milliner falling to us at 19? I mean...I've seen some places ranking him at 15?


Ehh. It is possible, but not likely. Teams that could draft a cornerback in front of us: Detroit Lions, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tennessee Titans, San Diego Chargers, maybe even the Eagles or Jets I mean a good amount of teams in front of us do have a reason to draft another cornerback.

Continuing with other teams' needs, I was thinking, if we want a good Cornerback or Linebacker like Arthur Brown, Minter, Green, Ogletree we might have to take them in the 1st because they are 2nd round guys whose ratings are increasing and their are teams like the Ravens and Bears who now are looking for replacements for their old LB core.


True but is Milliner really worth a top 10 pick? With the way the draft is looking I think we get a DE or CB. Off chance of O line if one falls.


Jake Matthews return to school will pretty much kill any chance of a top OT falling to us. Warmack may fall because he is a OG like DeCastro did last year, but 19 might be too early for Jon Cooper or Barrett Jones. It's very possible the Cowboys at #18 pick the top interior OL unless they don't resign Spencer.

Maybe a tradeback to the mid-20s to a team that loves Ogletree or another player in that area is possible. Would likley merit an extra 3rd rounder. A team like SF, that has 2 3rds could do it for a player they really like.

It's true with BPA and needs, CB or DE will very likely be our 1st pick.
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ESKY008


Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 1244
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the trade down. Ravens might be a suitor with ray Lewis retiring. Minter/olgetree. Might be able to pick up an extra 3rd and 5th or something.
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fracdaddy14


Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3454
Location: Northeastern PA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ESKY008 wrote:
I agree with the trade down. Ravens might be a suitor with ray Lewis retiring. Minter/olgetree. Might be able to pick up an extra 3rd and 5th or something.


Vikings badly need a LB so maybe them too. Or the Bengals cause Ogletree would be a perfect fit, character-wise. It's not an elite draft so trade down a bit in the early rounds and acquire more picks this year and next. We can always dream of Clowney (or even Stephen Tuitt from ND).
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dkebones


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 3737
Location: Giants fan in the Seahawk's backyard...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fracdaddy14 wrote:
Maybe a tradeback to the mid-20s to a team that loves Ogletree or another player in that area is possible. Would likley merit an extra 3rd rounder. A team like SF, that has 2 3rds could do it for a player they really like.



call me skeptical, but i'm not terribly confident in our 3rd round draft history to warrant picking up another one...

2006- Gerris Wilkinson
2007- Jay Alford
2008- Mario Manningham
2009- Ramses Barden / Travis Beckum
2010- Chad Jones*
2011- Jerrel Jernigan
2012- Jayron Hosley

I would argue that only two of these picks have panned out (and Manningham only because of a handful of timely big plays, not consistent production) in an area of the draft where you have to be successful to continuously develop your team and be competitive.
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fracdaddy14 wrote:
ESKY008 wrote:
I agree with the trade down. Ravens might be a suitor with ray Lewis retiring. Minter/olgetree. Might be able to pick up an extra 3rd and 5th or something.


Vikings badly need a LB so maybe them too. Or the Bengals cause Ogletree would be a perfect fit, character-wise. It's not an elite draft so trade down a bit in the early rounds and acquire more picks this year and next. We can always dream of Clowney (or even Stephen Tuitt from ND).


Don't think the Vikings need a LB that badly...didn't they lose their top 2 MLB's to the IR this year? I think I drafted one of them...
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Tehzl


Joined: 10 Apr 2012
Posts: 158
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkebones wrote:
fracdaddy14 wrote:
Maybe a tradeback to the mid-20s to a team that loves Ogletree or another player in that area is possible. Would likley merit an extra 3rd rounder. A team like SF, that has 2 3rds could do it for a player they really like.



call me skeptical, but i'm not terribly confident in our 3rd round draft history to warrant picking up another one...

2006- Gerris Wilkinson
2007- Jay Alford
2008- Mario Manningham
2009- Ramses Barden / Travis Beckum
2010- Chad Jones*
2011- Jerrel Jernigan
2012- Jayron Hosley

I would argue that only two of these picks have panned out (and Manningham only because of a handful of timely big plays, not consistent production) in an area of the draft where you have to be successful to continuously develop your team and be competitive.


You are missing 2005. Heh. Manningham was a pretty nice 3rd round pickup. Barden has potential but injuries. Travis Beckum came to the wrong offensive scheme. Chad Jones got bad luck with a serious injury. Jerrel Jernigan is buried in WR depth. Jayron just had 1 year and was immediately put in. Most of these players if played for another team would be starters and actually doing something. Blame it on our offensive scheme and depth at several positions.
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dkebones


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 3737
Location: Giants fan in the Seahawk's backyard...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tehzl wrote:
dkebones wrote:
fracdaddy14 wrote:
Maybe a tradeback to the mid-20s to a team that loves Ogletree or another player in that area is possible. Would likley merit an extra 3rd rounder. A team like SF, that has 2 3rds could do it for a player they really like.



call me skeptical, but i'm not terribly confident in our 3rd round draft history to warrant picking up another one...

2006- Gerris Wilkinson
2007- Jay Alford
2008- Mario Manningham
2009- Ramses Barden / Travis Beckum
2010- Chad Jones*
2011- Jerrel Jernigan
2012- Jayron Hosley

I would argue that only two of these picks have panned out (and Manningham only because of a handful of timely big plays, not consistent production) in an area of the draft where you have to be successful to continuously develop your team and be competitive.


You are missing 2005. Heh. Manningham was a pretty nice 3rd round pickup. Barden has potential but injuries. Travis Beckum came to the wrong offensive scheme. Chad Jones got bad luck with a serious injury. Jerrel Jernigan is buried in WR depth. Jayron just had 1 year and was immediately put in. Most of these players if played for another team would be starters and actually doing something. Blame it on our offensive scheme and depth at several positions.


That's fine, we can throw Tuck in there as well. that takes the count of 3rd-round impact players (IMO) to three (Tuck, MM and Hosley). in eight years. i don't care how you cut it, that's not a very good record.

i realize that there is something to the "TC won't play rookies" thing, but come on. even Wilson and Randle broke through that this year, as Bradshaw and Steve Smith did a few years ago. Jernigan had the perfect opportunity to contribute this year and didn't grab it. same with Beckum last year after Boss left. now, do i think part of this is the the FOs fault for not bringing in the right personnel to fit particualr schemes? sure do. but i find it hard to believe that TC and his coaching staff aren't actively involved in creating JR's draft board ("this guy is perfect for what we do, this guy sucks!") with guys who they believe can succeed on the team.
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fracdaddy14


Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3454
Location: Northeastern PA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GmenSeattle wrote:
fracdaddy14 wrote:
ESKY008 wrote:
I agree with the trade down. Ravens might be a suitor with ray Lewis retiring. Minter/olgetree. Might be able to pick up an extra 3rd and 5th or something.


Vikings badly need a LB so maybe them too. Or the Bengals cause Ogletree would be a perfect fit, character-wise. It's not an elite draft so trade down a bit in the early rounds and acquire more picks this year and next. We can always dream of Clowney (or even Stephen Tuitt from ND).


Don't think the Vikings need a LB that badly...didn't they lose their top 2 MLB's to the IR this year? I think I drafted one of them...


The Vikings didn't lose any LB to IR. This year anyway, maybe before when they had E.J. Henderson? Greenway is still a Pro-Bowl type, but Erin Henderson (WLB) is just a guy and Jaspar Brinkley (MLB) just plain sucks. They drafted another LB, but he couldn't get on the field.
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fracdaddy14


Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3454
Location: Northeastern PA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tehzl wrote:
dkebones wrote:
fracdaddy14 wrote:
Maybe a tradeback to the mid-20s to a team that loves Ogletree or another player in that area is possible. Would likley merit an extra 3rd rounder. A team like SF, that has 2 3rds could do it for a player they really like.



call me skeptical, but i'm not terribly confident in our 3rd round draft history to warrant picking up another one...

2006- Gerris Wilkinson
2007- Jay Alford
2008- Mario Manningham
2009- Ramses Barden / Travis Beckum
2010- Chad Jones*
2011- Jerrel Jernigan
2012- Jayron Hosley

I would argue that only two of these picks have panned out (and Manningham only because of a handful of timely big plays, not consistent production) in an area of the draft where you have to be successful to continuously develop your team and be competitive.


You are missing 2005. Heh. Manningham was a pretty nice 3rd round pickup. Barden has potential but injuries. Travis Beckum came to the wrong offensive scheme. Chad Jones got bad luck with a serious injury. Jerrel Jernigan is buried in WR depth. Jayron just had 1 year and was immediately put in. Most of these players if played for another team would be starters and actually doing something. Blame it on our offensive scheme and depth at several positions.


Alford did have that sack in the '07 Super Bowl to extinguish the Brady Bunch's last drive and did moonlight as LS. It was after the Giants that he did nothing. I think he was a LS and/or backup DT on the Raiders a couple years ago. In the slot, Hosley can be very good. Tuck was a beast from South Bend. MM gave us the no 3 WR we needed and we had to draft Randle to replace him. Nothing wrong with an extra pick for an aging team.
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dkebones


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 3737
Location: Giants fan in the Seahawk's backyard...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fracdaddy14 wrote:
Tehzl wrote:
dkebones wrote:
fracdaddy14 wrote:
Maybe a tradeback to the mid-20s to a team that loves Ogletree or another player in that area is possible. Would likley merit an extra 3rd rounder. A team like SF, that has 2 3rds could do it for a player they really like.



call me skeptical, but i'm not terribly confident in our 3rd round draft history to warrant picking up another one...

2006- Gerris Wilkinson
2007- Jay Alford
2008- Mario Manningham
2009- Ramses Barden / Travis Beckum
2010- Chad Jones*
2011- Jerrel Jernigan
2012- Jayron Hosley

I would argue that only two of these picks have panned out (and Manningham only because of a handful of timely big plays, not consistent production) in an area of the draft where you have to be successful to continuously develop your team and be competitive.


You are missing 2005. Heh. Manningham was a pretty nice 3rd round pickup. Barden has potential but injuries. Travis Beckum came to the wrong offensive scheme. Chad Jones got bad luck with a serious injury. Jerrel Jernigan is buried in WR depth. Jayron just had 1 year and was immediately put in. Most of these players if played for another team would be starters and actually doing something. Blame it on our offensive scheme and depth at several positions.


Alford did have that sack in the '07 Super Bowl to extinguish the Brady Bunch's last drive and did moonlight as LS. It was after the Giants that he did nothing. I think he was a LS and/or backup DT on the Raiders a couple years ago. In the slot, Hosley can be very good. Tuck was a beast from South Bend. MM gave us the no 3 WR we needed and we had to draft Randle to replace him. Nothing wrong with an extra pick for an aging team.


that's probably the better way that i need to think about it Smile
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Spartan300


Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 639
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random question but how did Keith Rivers do this year?
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Acgott


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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 9066
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartan300 wrote:
Random question but how did Keith Rivers do this year?

He was good when he was healthy
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Tehzl


Joined: 10 Apr 2012
Posts: 158
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK its the 19th pick in the 2013 NFL Draft, and guess what! Jarvis Jones hasn't been drafted yet. Do we want him? Read Below First

"Jones is a monster and in the NFL could very well play a role similar to what Von Miller plays in Denver (if drafted in the 4-3) or be a 3-4 backer.

The HUGE, and I cannot emphasize this enough, HUGE, knock on Jones is he has a medical condition called Spinal Stenosis.

The medical jargon on Spinal Stenosis is as follows "Spinal stenosis is narrowing of the spinal column that causes pressure on the spinal cord, or narrowing of the openings (called neural foramina) where spinal nerves leave the spinal column."

This disorder is what stopped Cooper Manning (Peyton's big brother) from playing college and potentially NFL football. It is also what forced Michael Irvin to retire early. Both of those guys played a very non-physical position in football. Jones plays linebacker, arguably the most physical position in football.

Now, Jones could very well play and never have an issue with his stenosis. He could go for 10-15 years and never have a problem. But at the same time, he could last half a season and than have to retire."

Do we still take a chance on a guy like that?

Now I would absolutely love to have a Von Miller on our team, but this medical condition seems real serious. I wouldn't take the risk.
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fracdaddy14


Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3454
Location: Northeastern PA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tehzl wrote:
OK its the 19th pick in the 2013 NFL Draft, and guess what! Jarvis Jones hasn't been drafted yet. Do we want him? Read Below First

"Jones is a monster and in the NFL could very well play a role similar to what Von Miller plays in Denver (if drafted in the 4-3) or be a 3-4 backer.

The HUGE, and I cannot emphasize this enough, HUGE, knock on Jones is he has a medical condition called Spinal Stenosis.

The medical jargon on Spinal Stenosis is as follows "Spinal stenosis is narrowing of the spinal column that causes pressure on the spinal cord, or narrowing of the openings (called neural foramina) where spinal nerves leave the spinal column."

This disorder is what stopped Cooper Manning (Peyton's big brother) from playing college and potentially NFL football. It is also what forced Michael Irvin to retire early. Both of those guys played a very non-physical position in football. Jones plays linebacker, arguably the most physical position in football.

Now, Jones could very well play and never have an issue with his stenosis. He could go for 10-15 years and never have a problem. But at the same time, he could last half a season and than have to retire."

Do we still take a chance on a guy like that?

Now I would absolutely love to have a Von Miller on our team, but this medical condition seems real serious. I wouldn't take the risk.


If he drops that far, yes. Kiwi can move full-time to DE and Jones can play the Elephant SLB position. Tough to see a LB lasting long in the NFL with that condition, but the talent is too much to pass at #19. He'd definitely be BPA unless he's off the Giant's draft board all together.

If 18 teams pass on him, most of who'm are looking for pass-rushers, that would be a bad sign though.
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NYGiantsman10


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 10053
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tehzl wrote:
OK its the 19th pick in the 2013 NFL Draft, and guess what! Jarvis Jones hasn't been drafted yet. Do we want him? Read Below First

"Jones is a monster and in the NFL could very well play a role similar to what Von Miller plays in Denver (if drafted in the 4-3) or be a 3-4 backer.

The HUGE, and I cannot emphasize this enough, HUGE, knock on Jones is he has a medical condition called Spinal Stenosis.

The medical jargon on Spinal Stenosis is as follows "Spinal stenosis is narrowing of the spinal column that causes pressure on the spinal cord, or narrowing of the openings (called neural foramina) where spinal nerves leave the spinal column."

This disorder is what stopped Cooper Manning (Peyton's big brother) from playing college and potentially NFL football. It is also what forced Michael Irvin to retire early. Both of those guys played a very non-physical position in football. Jones plays linebacker, arguably the most physical position in football.

Now, Jones could very well play and never have an issue with his stenosis. He could go for 10-15 years and never have a problem. But at the same time, he could last half a season and than have to retire."

Do we still take a chance on a guy like that?

Now I would absolutely love to have a Von Miller on our team, but this medical condition seems real serious. I wouldn't take the risk.


I think that same condition is what dropped Gronk to the 2nd round. I think there are levels of how bad it is it all depends
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