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GEE MEN


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 4097
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: The Offseason Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
GMENNATION wrote:
I'm not saying some of these players aren't good options, I'm just saying gutting your whole team and expecting to improve every position you cut (or atleast get an equal player for cheaper) through FA is unrealistic... A couple pickups, maybe. But with our cap situation, it would be a huge risk to gut a team and try to rebuild through FA... I agree with dumping some contracts of players no longer effective but we have to be smart about it... show me another time in the last few years where teams got 3+ truly impact players through FA... we are a 9-7 team, not a 6-10 team

The Eagles tried this method a couple seasons ago and got BURNED

I know it's been a few years, but didn't we get Plaxico Burress, Antonio Pierce and Kareem McKenzie in the same offseason?

Even if we wanted to, I don't think we could go out and spend big bucks in free agency. If we free up cap space by cutting veterans, guys like JPP, Nicks and Cruz still need extensions. We'll have to hope Reese can work his magic and get another Kawika Mitchell, Deon Grant or Stevie Brown type of steal in free agency.


Exactly Gmen, and those 3 contributed big time to our 2007 Super Bowl. It is not unprecedented. Good point on the extensions but I think Reese can sign another 3-4 this year and work his magic on extensions.

And I hope D. Walker is on the list (official D Walker mancrush) Laughing Dude really is valuable. He plays T, TE, HB, FB, the X, the Z and is a beast on ST.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2PEo_XT6gg

he even has returned kickoffs for a TD Laughing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLFSTMv-1WQ

He really puts pressure on the defense. Lining up tight at TE.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000112698/QB-Kaepernick-to-TE-Walker-34-yd-pass-TD

Lining up in an H-back role

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000116553/QB-Kaepernick-to-TE-Walker-18-yd-pass-TD-4th-down-conversion
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Desperado82 wrote:
I will never defend Romo again. I'm done. We may only have a shot at the playoffs or what have you because of him, but he will NEVER put us over the hump.
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GMENNATION


Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 154
Location: Greater New York Area
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minutemancl wrote:
You saw what happened when our team didn't force turnovers. Stevie Brown is more valuable to this team than KP. No denying KP is good, but that money needs to go elsewhere when we now have 3 capable S (Trel, Brown, Will Hill).


You're crazy if you think he is more valuable than KP. I agree that if KP is asking for too much and we have to cut ties its nice to have Stevie and Will Hill (who I think can be a real playmaker for us) to make up the slack but this defense is WORLDS better when KP is on the field.
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Biggsam49


Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 834
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The San Fran fans I know talk about Delanie the way we do about Diehl and Jernigan. Would love that type of player, but I don't think he is the answer.
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redsoxsuck05


Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 8098
Location: LI
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMENNATION wrote:
minutemancl wrote:
You saw what happened when our team didn't force turnovers. Stevie Brown is more valuable to this team than KP. No denying KP is good, but that money needs to go elsewhere when we now have 3 capable S (Trel, Brown, Will Hill).


You're crazy if you think he is more valuable than KP. I agree that if KP is asking for too much and we have to cut ties its nice to have Stevie and Will Hill (who I think can be a real playmaker for us) to make up the slack but this defense is WORLDS better when KP is on the field.


Agreed.
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Conquest8089


Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 2680
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Priority 1: Addressing the offensive Line.

RT:
Will prove difficult. David Diehl will not be back which opens a hole at Right Tackle. I sincerely doubt the Giants retain Sean Locklear who was invaluable when healthy due to that knee injury. James Brewer not getting playing time leads me to believe he's not ready to become a starter. Brandon Mosley might be ready after a year of development under Pat Flaherty.

RG:
Clearly Snee is the answer for 2013. While aging, he's the strength of the line and hopefully he can get healthy.

OC:
David Baas on a team without the success of the Giants would be a major failure of a FA signing. Giving him 5.5 million of AAV for a subpar Center was a major oversight rarely discussed by Jerry Reese.

LG:
Kevin Boothe moved into a starters role in 2011 with injuries to David Diehl & David Baas. When both were again healthy, he returned to the bench. Only a few weeks later, he was returned to the starting lineup for the stretch run and has been there ever since. The team REALLY likes Boothe and will hope he remains under the radar on the open market this offseason. The real question is high asking price.

LT:
After years of injuries, Will Beatty became a quality starter at Left Tackle in his walk year. It's a shame and really emphasizes that a COACHING CHANGE could occur. While Flaherty has assembled two Championship Caliber lines, the team simply cannot wait 2-3 years for draft picks to develop into starters with rookie contracts now spanning only 3-4 years.


The strength of the unit was the Left Side and the Right Tackle spot was the most glaring hole on this team following Locklear's injury. The concern is if you pay Beatty & Boothe significant money to retain their services, you can't again go to FA to address a hole. One of the young linemen (James Brewer or Brandon Mosley) simply must be ready to assume a starting role.

Some will argue the Giants should target Jake Long- whose going to command a multi year deal with 9-12 million of AAV. I think we should retain Beatty & Boothe- but not overpay.

The Baas signing is a major concern- and it bothers me on a consistent basis. By committing 5.5 million of AAV to a FA Center (who I felt was overpaid at the time)- again jumping into the FA process is not economically sound judgement.
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Priority 1 is not the OL it is the defense

We improved by 435 yards from last year to this year
We also improved our sacks allowed by 8
Despite our Red Zone failure we ranked 14th in YPG and 6th PPG

Yet our defense ranked 31st in YPG, 28th Passing Yards allowed, 25th rushing yards allowed

We had 26 less sacks this year. Good for 22nd in the League
We were last in yards per pass attempt

We were very lucky for Stevie coming up with his interceptions or this would have been a lot worst

We were the 5th worst in rushing yards per attempt as well as 8th worst overall

The Giants cannot count on turnovers to be the sole reason they win games

We need DEFENSE
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Tehzl


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 149
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acgott wrote:
Priority 1 is not the OL it is the defense

We improved by 435 yards from last year to this year
We also improved our sacks allowed by 8
Despite our Red Zone failure we ranked 14th in YPG and 6th PPG

Yet our defense ranked 31st in YPG, 28th Passing Yards allowed, 25th rushing yards allowed

We had 26 less sacks this year. Good for 22nd in the League
We were last in yards per pass attempt

We were very lucky for Stevie coming up with his interceptions or this would have been a lot worst

We were the 5th worst in rushing yards per attempt as well as 8th worst overall

The Giants cannot count on turnovers to be the sole reason they win games

We need DEFENSE


I agree with Acgott, we can probably last another year with our patched up Oline. Our first priority should be to fix our terrible defense as soon as possible, because I don't think RG3 will be getting worse anytime soon, and who knows what they are going to be doing in Philadelphia.
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Biggsam49


Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 834
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Id love a first round CB.

Can we PLEASE take a second round LBer? A real 43 LB, not a 34 conversion project. How many years am I going to fall in love with these mid round LBers, and it feels like every one of them becomes an important piece of their defense? Wagner, Washington, Lee, Carter, Wagner..

EDIT:

Whoops.

Meant Lavonte David. Can throw on Zach Brown and possibly Akeem Ayers (heard mixed reviews)


Last edited by Biggsam49 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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fracdaddy14


Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3349
Location: Northeastern PA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggsam49 wrote:
Id love a first round CB.

Can we PLEASE take a second round LBer? A real 43 LB, not a 34 conversion project. How many years am I going to fall in love with these mid round LBers, and it feels like every one of them becomes an important piece of their defense? Wagner, Washington, Lee, Carter, Wagner..


Jonathan Banks or Jordan Poyer are my faves in Round 1 at CB (I have Poyer in my current Giants Mock Draft). After Te'o, Ogletree is likely gone in late Round 1 unless he gets busted for pot at the combine. The only 2nd Round LB I'd look at is Khaseem Greene (think Wagner). A 4-3 Will LB who is bulking up to become a Mike. Former safety is a playmaker at Rutgers. I'm not sold on Arthur Brown or Minter. In round 3-4, Hodges (think Lee) has enough starter tools for Day 1. I went CB, OT, DE, LB, DT, K, LB in the mock. Might get a 6th round comp or Manningham and get an interior OL.
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fracdaddy14


Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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Location: Northeastern PA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of LBs, a reasonably priced option I noticed was Brad Jones of the Packers. Played 3-4 OLB initially, but wasn't a passrusher, and did a solid job moving inside this year, replacing injured Desmond Bishop. Young, durable, versitale, experienced, reliable, and reasonably priced. Bishop and Nick Perry are back and the Packers have cheap depth that he would be available. Could be a solid 4-3 SAM with his skillset, allowing Kiwi to move permanently to DE. As was brought up before, a potential Kawika Mitchell type bargain. I'd rather a draft pick, Jones, and JWill at LB than Boley, Kiwi, and Chase again. They couldn't do worse.
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odds on Dee Milliner falling to us at 19? I mean...I've seen some places ranking him at 15?
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fracdaddy14


Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GmenSeattle wrote:
Odds on Dee Milliner falling to us at 19? I mean...I've seen some places ranking him at 15?


Pretty good. Milliner is the top rated CB now, but things could easily change after combines/pro days. Banks and, especially, Xavier Rhodes, could pass him. I have him at #13 in my current mock, as I feel Tampa Bay is the only team ahead of us definitely taking a CB.
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Tehzl


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 149
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GmenSeattle wrote:
Odds on Dee Milliner falling to us at 19? I mean...I've seen some places ranking him at 15?


Ehh. It is possible, but not likely. Teams that could draft a cornerback in front of us: Detroit Lions, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tennessee Titans, San Diego Chargers, maybe even the Eagles or Jets I mean a good amount of teams in front of us do have a reason to draft another cornerback.

Continuing with other teams' needs, I was thinking, if we want a good Cornerback or Linebacker like Arthur Brown, Minter, Green, Ogletree we might have to take them in the 1st because they are 2nd round guys whose ratings are increasing and their are teams like the Ravens and Bears who now are looking for replacements for their old LB core.
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tehzl wrote:
GmenSeattle wrote:
Odds on Dee Milliner falling to us at 19? I mean...I've seen some places ranking him at 15?


Ehh. It is possible, but not likely. Teams that could draft a cornerback in front of us: Detroit Lions, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tennessee Titans, San Diego Chargers, maybe even the Eagles or Jets I mean a good amount of teams in front of us do have a reason to draft another cornerback.

Continuing with other teams' needs, I was thinking, if we want a good Cornerback or Linebacker like Arthur Brown, Minter, Green, Ogletree we might have to take them in the 1st because they are 2nd round guys whose ratings are increasing and their are teams like the Ravens and Bears who now are looking for replacements for their old LB core.


True but is Milliner really worth a top 10 pick? With the way the draft is looking I think we get a DE or CB. Off chance of O line if one falls.
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Tehzl


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GmenSeattle wrote:
Tehzl wrote:
GmenSeattle wrote:
Odds on Dee Milliner falling to us at 19? I mean...I've seen some places ranking him at 15?


Ehh. It is possible, but not likely. Teams that could draft a cornerback in front of us: Detroit Lions, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tennessee Titans, San Diego Chargers, maybe even the Eagles or Jets I mean a good amount of teams in front of us do have a reason to draft another cornerback.

Continuing with other teams' needs, I was thinking, if we want a good Cornerback or Linebacker like Arthur Brown, Minter, Green, Ogletree we might have to take them in the 1st because they are 2nd round guys whose ratings are increasing and their are teams like the Ravens and Bears who now are looking for replacements for their old LB core.


True but is Milliner really worth a top 10 pick? With the way the draft is looking I think we get a DE or CB. Off chance of O line if one falls.


If you ask me no he is not I think another corner will be picked ahead of him. As for what we pick in the first round I couldn't tell you. Most likely BPA so we would have to determine what teams before us are going to pick.
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