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The financial arguement for firing Lovie
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
he's had 2, I keep having to point this out, he did not hire Ron Turner, Ron Turner was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Lovie hired Martz (who was the only one who didn't turn the job down b/c of instability in the entire organization at the time) and Mike Tice (which everyone on here thought was a great move, which nobody would have guessed would refuse to run the football).
People, Superman is correct here.
It was b/c of Ron Turner and Ron Rivera that Lovie's "power grab" following the SuperBowl was really just getting what every other coach in the NFL already had, the ability to hire and fire his own coaches.


And look what he did with all that power.
he did what every other coach in the NFL does, he hired assistants who were familiar to him and that he's worked w/ before.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
he's had 2, I keep having to point this out, he did not hire Ron Turner, Ron Turner was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Lovie hired Martz (who was the only one who didn't turn the job down b/c of instability in the entire organization at the time) and Mike Tice (which everyone on here thought was a great move, which nobody would have guessed would refuse to run the football).
People, Superman is correct here.
It was b/c of Ron Turner and Ron Rivera that Lovie's "power grab" following the SuperBowl was really just getting what every other coach in the NFL already had, the ability to hire and fire his own coaches.


And look what he did with all that power.
he did what every other coach in the NFL does, he hired assistants who were familiar to him and that he's worked w/ before.


He made hiring mistakes and then missed the playoffs 4 of 5 years and cannot beat Green Bay.

He has been a failure since 2006.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
He made hiring mistakes and then missed the playoffs 4 of 5 years and cannot beat Green Bay.

He has been a failure since 2006.

So has every coach outside of Coughlin, Tomlin, McCarthy and Payton. If you aren't winning the SB then you have failed. That's every team's goal.

The "he can't beat Green Bay" thing is made to be more than it really is (or should be). Lets be honest - if we had won a Super Bowl in the midst of a 6 game losing streak to Green Bay there would be little to no concern about not beating Green Bay.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
He made hiring mistakes and then missed the playoffs 4 of 5 years and cannot beat Green Bay.

He has been a failure since 2006.

So has every coach outside of Coughlin, Tomlin, McCarthy and Payton. If you aren't winning the SB then you have failed. That's every team's goal.

The "he can't beat Green Bay" thing is made to be more than it really is (or should be). Lets be honest - if we had won a Super Bowl in the midst of a 6 game losing streak to Green Bay there would be little to no concern about not beating Green Bay.


To win the division we need to be Green Bay.

To get home field advantage we need to beat Green Bay.

And we didn't win a Superbowl in that time. In fact the Packers kept us from winning the NFC and going to the Superbowl.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
He made hiring mistakes and then missed the playoffs 4 of 5 years and cannot beat Green Bay.

He has been a failure since 2006.

So has every coach outside of Coughlin, Tomlin, McCarthy and Payton. If you aren't winning the SB then you have failed. That's every team's goal.

The "he can't beat Green Bay" thing is made to be more than it really is (or should be). Lets be honest - if we had won a Super Bowl in the midst of a 6 game losing streak to Green Bay there would be little to no concern about not beating Green Bay.


To win the division we need to be Green Bay.

To get home field advantage we need to beat Green Bay.

And we didn't win a Superbowl in that time. In fact the Packers kept us from winning the NFC and going to the Superbowl.

My point is that you don't have to beat the Packers to win the Super Bowl unless you draw them in the postseason. We played GB in the playoffs in January 2011 so obviously THEN we needed to beat them. We obviously didn't win a Super Bowl so my statement was a hypothetical. The larger goal is to win a Super Bowl and not all roads to the Super Bowl require beating the Packers.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
He made hiring mistakes and then missed the playoffs 4 of 5 years and cannot beat Green Bay.

He has been a failure since 2006.

So has every coach outside of Coughlin, Tomlin, McCarthy and Payton. If you aren't winning the SB then you have failed. That's every team's goal.

The "he can't beat Green Bay" thing is made to be more than it really is (or should be). Lets be honest - if we had won a Super Bowl in the midst of a 6 game losing streak to Green Bay there would be little to no concern about not beating Green Bay.


To win the division we need to be Green Bay.

To get home field advantage we need to beat Green Bay.

And we didn't win a Superbowl in that time. In fact the Packers kept us from winning the NFC and going to the Superbowl.

My point is that you don't have to beat the Packers to win the Super Bowl unless you draw them in the postseason. We played GB in the playoffs in January 2011 so obviously THEN we needed to beat them. We obviously didn't win a Super Bowl so my statement was a hypothetical. The larger goal is to win a Super Bowl and not all roads to the Super Bowl require beating the Packers.


And what I am saying is that our chances of winning the Superbowl without beating the Packers in the regular season, and winning the division, or in the playoffs, as a wildcard, is very low.

We need to beat the Packers and with the way things are going that doesn't look good while Aaron Rodgers is alive.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
He made hiring mistakes and then missed the playoffs 4 of 5 years and cannot beat Green Bay.

He has been a failure since 2006.

So has every coach outside of Coughlin, Tomlin, McCarthy and Payton. If you aren't winning the SB then you have failed. That's every team's goal.

The "he can't beat Green Bay" thing is made to be more than it really is (or should be). Lets be honest - if we had won a Super Bowl in the midst of a 6 game losing streak to Green Bay there would be little to no concern about not beating Green Bay.


To win the division we need to be Green Bay.

To get home field advantage we need to beat Green Bay.

And we didn't win a Superbowl in that time. In fact the Packers kept us from winning the NFC and going to the Superbowl.

My point is that you don't have to beat the Packers to win the Super Bowl unless you draw them in the postseason. We played GB in the playoffs in January 2011 so obviously THEN we needed to beat them. We obviously didn't win a Super Bowl so my statement was a hypothetical. The larger goal is to win a Super Bowl and not all roads to the Super Bowl require beating the Packers.


And what I am saying is that our chances of winning the Superbowl without beating the Packers in the regular season, and winning the division, or in the playoffs, as a wildcard, is very low.

We need to beat the Packers and with the way things are going that doesn't look good while Aaron Rodgers is alive.


I agree with Windy here. Bears need to start beating teams like the Pack (regardless if it's regular season or playoffs) or they're never going to win the Super Bowl anytime soon. The fact that Lovie hasn't coached this team to a win over Green Bay since 2010 and has lost the past 6 meetings and 8 out of 9 total to them is disconcerting.

This putrid of a record after him claiming his number 1 goal is to beat the Green Bay Packers. LOL that's quite laughable. What's even more laughable is out of the Bears 9 wins this season only 3 came against teams with a winning record and all of their losses came to teams with better records.
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IronMike84


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
he did what every other coach in the NFL does, he hired assistants who were familiar to him and that he's worked w/ before.

SHHHHH! Careful what you say. In the eyes of Bears Nation, Lovie Smith is the only head coach in professional sports who does this. Laughing
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: The financial arguement for firing Lovie Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Much has been mentioned about how the Bears will not want to fire Lovie because they owe him 5 million dollars.

But I heard on the radio today a beat writer make an interesting point about the finances of Smith.

The single most profitable moment in the NFL season is a home playoff game as the players are getting paid a fraction of their salaries andosy of what is earned is profit.

The biggest financial arguement against Smith is that he simply does not produce home playoff games, which the beat writer said the McCaskeys love.

In the last 6 years there have been 2 home playoffs games. According to Forbes the gate income for the Bears is 61 million a year and while I know there are 2 preseason games for the same of arguement we are going to leave those out.

The gate receipts account for about 7.5 million a game without counting concessions and parking. Lets conservatively say that concessions and parking generate 2.5 million. Which means each game is about 10 million dollars generated minus game day expenses.

The fact that Lovie makes 5 million is inconsequential when you consider that when we don't have home playoff games the team misses out on a 10 million dollar revenue opportunity.

But to get home playoff games you need to win more than 9-10 games.

Or you need to beat Green Bay and win the division.
Playoff game tickets are at least 35% more expensive than regular games and escalate in price as you get deeper into the playoffs. I think they wanted 300 for the two this year when there was about a 1 in a 1000 chance of even having a home game.

Now some of that increase would be absorbed by the loss of beer sales (only the youngest drinkers are going to beat sucking down beer when it is 20 degrees).

However, you are on target with the lack of playoff games costing the organization big bucks.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badger75 wrote:
How many home playoff games did Wannstadt and Jouron coach?

If the Bears fire Smith they are rebuilding on both sides of the line of scrimmage.

This argument is nonsense.
One of the reasons neither man is here is because of their inability to make the playoffs consistently like Smith.

Wannie was in the playoffs twice in his six years and was 1-1. Jauron was 0-1 in his five and won one division title.

The argument is a valid argument. Not having home playoffs games lowers the money available for free agents, paying our own and going after high draft picks. It is very important to the teams overall success long term.

Any coach coming into any job inherits a situation and never has a free hand so rebuilding does not have to take that much a different shape than what has to be done in any case. Players not performing have to be replaced, players getting older means bringing in younger player to groom for their retirement.

Certainly there is nothing particularly unusual about Smith's defense that cannot be sustained and just about ANY change on offense will be better considering it is one of the worst in the league.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
Badger75 wrote:
Quick turn arounds like the Colts are amazing.


Not only that but they were in a totally different situation…it was blatantly obvious that Jim Caldwell wasn’t a HC…in our case we could be looking at having a 10 win season and going to the playoffs…plus IMO there aren’t 10 better HCs in the NFL than Lovie Smith so why tear it down to start again if you’re not 100% sure you can get someone better…like the Colts were.
That is completely false. There is no such certainty anywhere much less the NFL. The Colts did not collapse until Manning was hurt and Caldwell was fired because of that. Here we would have just hung on to Smith and blamed all failure on losing our qB, in fact, that is EXACTLY what we did.

And Pagano has been deathly ill all year so it is unlikely he has been able to do much coaching.

Coaches are not allowed to continue for NINE years in the NFL winning every other year. Only Smith.

It is also a red herring that there is going to be any tearing down of the successful part of the team and that no one but Smith can coach it. Nor is there anything to tear down on offense since it is at the bottom compared to the rest of the league.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
He made hiring mistakes and then missed the playoffs 4 of 5 years and cannot beat Green Bay.

He has been a failure since 2006.

So has every coach outside of Coughlin, Tomlin, McCarthy and Payton. If you aren't winning the SB then you have failed. That's every team's goal.

The "he can't beat Green Bay" thing is made to be more than it really is (or should be). Lets be honest - if we had won a Super Bowl in the midst of a 6 game losing streak to Green Bay there would be little to no concern about not beating Green Bay.


To win the division we need to be Green Bay.

To get home field advantage we need to beat Green Bay.

And we didn't win a Superbowl in that time. In fact the Packers kept us from winning the NFC and going to the Superbowl.

My point is that you don't have to beat the Packers to win the Super Bowl unless you draw them in the postseason. We played GB in the playoffs in January 2011 so obviously THEN we needed to beat them. We obviously didn't win a Super Bowl so my statement was a hypothetical. The larger goal is to win a Super Bowl and not all roads to the Super Bowl require beating the Packers.
There is almost no chance to make it to the Super Bowl wherein we do not beat the Pack. When we do it makes the team's confidence overwhelming, when we don't there is always an element of doubt that is disabling. This is why Ditka was so great. His teams beat GB like a tympani.

It was wonderful.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).
We could have been a 12 win team and won the division with two QB sneaks which any good coach would have made sure were called.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
People around here act as if this is an impossibility. Of course, it would be possible, even likely. Why fix what ain't broke?
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Badger75 wrote:
Quick turn arounds like the Colts are amazing.


Not only that but they were in a totally different situation…it was blatantly obvious that Jim Caldwell wasn’t a HC…in our case we could be looking at having a 10 win season and going to the playoffs…plus IMO there aren’t 10 better HCs in the NFL than Lovie Smith so why tear it down to start again if you’re not 100% sure you can get someone better…like the Colts were.
That is completely false. There is no such certainty anywhere much less the NFL. The Colts did not collapse until Manning was hurt and Caldwell was fired because of that. Here we would have just hung on to Smith and blamed all failure on losing our qB, in fact, that is EXACTLY what we did.

And Pagano has been deathly ill all year so it is unlikely he has been able to do much coaching.

Coaches are not allowed to continue for NINE years in the NFL winning every other year. Only Smith.

It is also a red herring that there is going to be any tearing down of the successful part of the team and that no one but Smith can coach it. Nor is there anything to tear down on offense since it is at the bottom compared to the rest of the league.


As usual Al…you’re wrong on my levels…

The Colts were a one man team who were in serious decline even before Manning went down…Tony Dungy saw that the Polian’s were running the franchise into the ground…if you think the only reason they were so bad last year was because Manning went down your wrong…they had lost so much talent that even Manning could have overcame it and much of that was down to Jim Caldwell being an inept HC to anyone who ever say the Colts play over the three seasons he was in charge…as for blaming our failure on losing our QB the difference is the Colts lost a QB and were terrible…we lost a QB and many other key players at times this season and are still in with a strong chance of a 10 win season and making the playoffs…but I suppose in your world where Lovie can do no right and everyone else like JA and Ron Rivera are much better than they actually were at the time…that doesn’t hold much weigh…

Pagano worked all offseason on schemes with the Colts…not only that but Bruce Arians has done a terrific job of stepping into his shoes…

You only have to listen to how the players speak about Lovie to understand how good an HC he is…I’ve said this plenty of times before…there aren’t 10 better HCs in the NFL than Lovie Smith.
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