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The financial arguement for firing Lovie
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Badger75 wrote:
Quick turn arounds like the Colts are amazing.


Not only that but they were in a totally different situation…it was blatantly obvious that Jim Caldwell wasn’t a HC…in our case we could be looking at having a 10 win season and going to the playoffs…plus IMO there aren’t 10 better HCs in the NFL than Lovie Smith so why tear it down to start again if you’re not 100% sure you can get someone better…like the Colts were.


Someone hasnt taken a risk in their life


There is a big difference between a calculated risk…and a petulant “anything that has ever had an offence would be better” gamble…getting rid of Lovie would be the latter.


Like I say all the time MM90. Your opinion isnt counted in the decision. None of our opinions are. Its likely Phil knows what he is going to do already. There is really only two answers to this.


That is the case with everything we write about on here.


Well good then you can say that your risk post was just an opinion. Right now Phil has to think about whether Lovie can win a championship or not. Thats really what it comes down to. Cutting off negotiations after the fast start is concerning.


Obviously...the vast majority of posts on this site are opinions.
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GOGRIESE


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Badger75 wrote:
Quick turn arounds like the Colts are amazing.


Not only that but they were in a totally different situation…it was blatantly obvious that Jim Caldwell wasn’t a HC…in our case we could be looking at having a 10 win season and going to the playoffs…plus IMO there aren’t 10 better HCs in the NFL than Lovie Smith so why tear it down to start again if you’re not 100% sure you can get someone better…like the Colts were.


Someone hasnt taken a risk in their life


There is a big difference between a calculated risk…and a petulant “anything that has ever had an offence would be better” gamble…getting rid of Lovie would be the latter.


Like I say all the time MM90. Your opinion isnt counted in the decision. None of our opinions are. Its likely Phil knows what he is going to do already. There is really only two answers to this.


That is the case with everything we write about on here.


Well good then you can say that your risk post was just an opinion. Right now Phil has to think about whether Lovie can win a championship or not. Thats really what it comes down to. Cutting off negotiations after the fast start is concerning.


Obviously...the vast majority of posts on this site are opinions.


Good it just bothers me when you talk like you almost have a hand in this decision.
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Nads786


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22681
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Badger75 wrote:
Quick turn arounds like the Colts are amazing.


Not only that but they were in a totally different situation…it was blatantly obvious that Jim Caldwell wasn’t a HC…in our case we could be looking at having a 10 win season and going to the playoffs…plus IMO there aren’t 10 better HCs in the NFL than Lovie Smith so why tear it down to start again if you’re not 100% sure you can get someone better…like the Colts were.


Someone hasnt taken a risk in their life


There is a big difference between a calculated risk…and a petulant “anything that has ever had an offence would be better” gamble…getting rid of Lovie would be the latter.


Like I say all the time MM90. Your opinion isnt counted in the decision. None of our opinions are. Its likely Phil knows what he is going to do already. There is really only two answers to this.


That is the case with everything we write about on here.


Well good then you can say that your risk post was just an opinion. Right now Phil has to think about whether Lovie can win a championship or not. Thats really what it comes down to. Cutting off negotiations after the fast start is concerning.


Obviously...the vast majority of posts on this site are opinions.


Good it just bothers me when you talk like you almost have a hand in this decision.


Ok then.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We will neve agree on this because at a fundamental level we disagree.

The reasons don't matter because some people think Lovie is a mediocre coach and some think he is a good coach with bad talent. That difference of opinion influences how we look at everything in regard to Lovie.

That is why we will never agree.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
he's had 2, I keep having to point this out, he did not hire Ron Turner, Ron Turner was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Lovie hired Martz (who was the only one who didn't turn the job down b/c of instability in the entire organization at the time) and Mike Tice (which everyone on here thought was a great move, which nobody would have guessed would refuse to run the football).
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bearsaddict


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
he's had 2, I keep having to point this out, he did not hire Ron Turner, Ron Turner was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Lovie hired Martz (who was the only one who didn't turn the job down b/c of instability in the entire organization at the time) and Mike Tice (which everyone on here thought was a great move, which nobody would have guessed would refuse to run the football).
People, Superman is correct here.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
he's had 2, I keep having to point this out, he did not hire Ron Turner, Ron Turner was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Lovie hired Martz (who was the only one who didn't turn the job down b/c of instability in the entire organization at the time) and Mike Tice (which everyone on here thought was a great move, which nobody would have guessed would refuse to run the football).
People, Superman is correct here.


Ok sure it was 2 then. That doesn't explain why Lovie didn't fire Turner's butt earlier than he did. And don't tell me because it was Ange-blow that prevented him from doing it. Lovie just doesn't have a clue when it comes to offense. I don't like to see anyone lose their job, and I'm seriously hoping the Bears make the playoffs so that Lovie can possibly stay on and they have the added continuity, but if they fail to then no excuses this time. No more mulligans.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
he's had 2, I keep having to point this out, he did not hire Ron Turner, Ron Turner was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Lovie hired Martz (who was the only one who didn't turn the job down b/c of instability in the entire organization at the time) and Mike Tice (which everyone on here thought was a great move, which nobody would have guessed would refuse to run the football).
People, Superman is correct here.
It was b/c of Ron Turner and Ron Rivera that Lovie's "power grab" following the SuperBowl was really just getting what every other coach in the NFL already had, the ability to hire and fire his own coaches.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
he's had 2, I keep having to point this out, he did not hire Ron Turner, Ron Turner was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Lovie hired Martz (who was the only one who didn't turn the job down b/c of instability in the entire organization at the time) and Mike Tice (which everyone on here thought was a great move, which nobody would have guessed would refuse to run the football).
People, Superman is correct here.


Ok sure it was 2 then. That doesn't explain why Lovie didn't fire Turner's butt earlier than he did. And don't tell me because it was Ange-blow that prevented him from doing it. Lovie just doesn't have a clue when it comes to offense. I don't like to see anyone lose their job, and I'm seriously hoping the Bears make the playoffs so that Lovie can possibly stay on and they have the added continuity, but if they fail to then no excuses this time. No more mulligans.
Ron Turner's offense w/ an offensive line capable, was able to help the Bears achieve an 11-5 and 13-3 record by doing just enough and not causing problems for the D. In 2007 that didn't happen as the Bears gave up the football way too much, but back to back playoff appearances buys you an extra year, so he got 2008 where again the offense did just enough to not get in the defense's way that the Bears finished 9-7 and one game out of the playoffs. W/ Jay being brought in, in 2009, one could certainly make the argument that that was the time to get rid of Turner, and thats what probably should have happened, but you also have to look at the need for stability at that point, but Turner's offense again turning over the football waaaaay too much was too much for Lovie to deal with. Unfortunately b/c of the playoff drought, the .500 record from 2007-2009, the heat that Angelo, and Ted Phillips were also creating, the uncertainty as to what George McCaskey was going to do, NOBODY wanted the job. Guys turned us down to be QB coaches elsewhere. It looked like the entire regime was going to be out the next year. Jerry Angelo tried, and tried, and tried to find somebody, ANYBODY, other than Mike Martz and couldn't. Martz was brought in, and for all the heat he gets, and deservedly so, Cutler was the most efficient of his entire career under Mike Martz, and the Bears probably should have had back-to-back playoffs under him as well. However Martz frequently ignored the run game, and the best offensive player on the team was largely ignored for long stretches, so he's out and gets replaced w/ a RUN GAME COORDINATOR/OL COACH who talks all the time about running the football, who then proceeds to ignore the run just as much, if not more, than Mike Martz. If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. I have to think Lovie is sitting alone in his office sometimes just thinking of ways to communicate his desire to be a run first football team so no coordinator other than Ron Turner can seem to understand it.
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ak06max


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.



Exactly. We will be drafting a new QB before we can get this offense moving.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
he's had 2, I keep having to point this out, he did not hire Ron Turner, Ron Turner was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Lovie hired Martz (who was the only one who didn't turn the job down b/c of instability in the entire organization at the time) and Mike Tice (which everyone on here thought was a great move, which nobody would have guessed would refuse to run the football).


Who hired Terry Shea?
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
he's had 2, I keep having to point this out, he did not hire Ron Turner, Ron Turner was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Lovie hired Martz (who was the only one who didn't turn the job down b/c of instability in the entire organization at the time) and Mike Tice (which everyone on here thought was a great move, which nobody would have guessed would refuse to run the football).
People, Superman is correct here.
It was b/c of Ron Turner and Ron Rivera that Lovie's "power grab" following the SuperBowl was really just getting what every other coach in the NFL already had, the ability to hire and fire his own coaches.


And look what he did with all that power.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Nads786 wrote:
I think your argument is interesting, however will the next coach take us to the playoffs? Which coach is more likely Lovie or unnamed coach?

I think that is what Emery is struggling with trying to figure out if anything better is out there. I honestly think we just need a good OC and offensive line talent to be a 11 win team.

If Lovie can be like Kubiak and find his Wade Phillips of offense we would be set (pending Emery drafting sound offensive talent).


Lovie's had at least 3 chances to get that right and he's failed miserably every time. How many more chances does he get to screw up any more years of Cutler and the rest of this offense's development.? If Lovie is to stay on then Tice should stay as well. If they're going to want to change offensive coordinators again then might as well just fire Smith and start fresh.

If Bears fail to make playoffs regardless of whether or not they win Sunday, ideally I'd like to see a new offensive minded head coach come in but I would like them to keep Marinelli if possible to run the defense.
he's had 2, I keep having to point this out, he did not hire Ron Turner, Ron Turner was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Lovie hired Martz (who was the only one who didn't turn the job down b/c of instability in the entire organization at the time) and Mike Tice (which everyone on here thought was a great move, which nobody would have guessed would refuse to run the football).


Who hired Terry Shea?
Jerry Angelo. When Lovie was hired the new coordinators were already in place, hired by Jerry Angelo.
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