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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4578
Location: AZ
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 Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| dante9876 wrote: | | Plus the fact I think Reggie uses this offseason to trim some more of the fat. I dont know. |
+1
I see a modest improvement over this year, but I think most of it will come from the hire of a competent OC and a return to a PBS that several of our key players seem to do better in. However, we will still be using this year to get over the big contracts, cutting ties with several players, and still dont have all our draft picks. I wouldnt expect too much of a turnaround until the season after next, when we have a full draft class, plus our (hopefully) impact 1st rounder from this upcoming draft, have moved on from our overpaid underperformers, and have a solid 2-3 years of coaching continuity.
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| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19056
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | No way the Rams give up two first and a 2nd for Joeckel. He's a good prospect but not in the league of Long/Thomas or even Kalil. I don't think Fisher is dumb enough to go for that trade. |
watch his game vrs bama
they have a qb to protect
i wonder if the bears would be interested in trading for #3 for luke |
Agree w/ Raidin. Nobody is trading up for Joeckle. He's not good enough. Kalil was a better prospect a year ago many believe.
With Lewan, Fisher and others very close to the same player no teams can be patient and find their guy.
It is going to be difficult to trade out of #3. There simply isn't value at the spot right now. Hopefully someone emerges in the offseason, but hard pressed to find anyone teams can't live without in this draft. |
luke> kalil
but i agree a max trade down is highly unlikely |
Your opinion. I'd take Kalil personally, better upside. I'd agree Joeckle is more polished coming out, but Kalil is a more natural athlete IMO.
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12585
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | No way the Rams give up two first and a 2nd for Joeckel. He's a good prospect but not in the league of Long/Thomas or even Kalil. I don't think Fisher is dumb enough to go for that trade. |
watch his game vrs bama
they have a qb to protect
i wonder if the bears would be interested in trading for #3 for luke |
Agree w/ Raidin. Nobody is trading up for Joeckle. He's not good enough. Kalil was a better prospect a year ago many believe.
With Lewan, Fisher and others very close to the same player no teams can be patient and find their guy.
It is going to be difficult to trade out of #3. There simply isn't value at the spot right now. Hopefully someone emerges in the offseason, but hard pressed to find anyone teams can't live without in this draft. |
luke> kalil
but i agree a max trade down is highly unlikely |
Your opinion. I'd take Kalil personally, better upside. I'd agree Joeckle is more polished coming out, but Kalil is a more natural athlete IMO. |
i think yankey from stanford is better than both of them but thats just me 
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| green24 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you |
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BigMike1b
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 1879
Location: 626, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Demontre Moore does not impress me as a top-5 pick and Jarvis Jones's spinal condition scares me. I think when it's all said and done, Dion Jordan will end up as our pick at #3. He's not only an outstanding athlete, but he has the production to warrant a top selection despite his rawness. He is such a talented guy and had he been asked to rush the passer more often, his sack and pressure totals would have gone up. I think his stock is going to skyrocket during the offseason.
I'm sure people will ask why not trade down for him, but there really isn't a clear cut top player that's worth flipping multiple picks for from what I have observed. However, that's just my opinion and there's no way to find out if GMs feel the same way. One team that has their name thrown out there as a team looking to trade up is St. Louis and from my knowledge they are okay with Roger Saffold as their LT. They could upgrade their offense with Warmack with their first pick and possibly take a WR Keenan Allen or Justin Hunter with their second 1st as opposed to moving up for Luke Joeckel or Taylor Lewan. I don't see their need to trade up IMO
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4578
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | ps dont sleep on their oc Kliff Kingsbury he is my fav oc on any level right now. on the low his offense led the SEC in rushing, passing, scoring and total yardage this year. all this while playing the bamas, lsu's, florida's etc |
Do you mean as an OC candidate for us, or just in general? Because he just took the HC job at his alma mater. Also, his offense at A&M was impressive, but how much of that was him and how much of it was Johnny Manziel? Not many QBs have the ability to run for 100 yards a game and still lead a good passing attack at the same time. If he had any other QB they wouldnt have led the SEC in rushing either, as Manziel accounted for about half their rushing yards. |
yea imo he is the best oc period. i know he just became a hc. i really wanted him to be our oc. i dont know how he will do as a hc. check his resume he has been coaching for a while and doing a good job at it. |
Meh, only in spread offenses though. I didnt follow him as a coach, so I could be completely wrong about him, I just have a bias against spread offenses in college. Sure, Houston put up big numbers with him calling the plays, but their offense was all pass and a lot of spread offenses put up similar numbers. Houston, Hawaii, Texas Tech, WV, Baylor, OK State, LA Tech, etc. A & M's offense was really mostly pass, too. Its just that Manziel is also an extrordinary runner so they racked up a ton of rushing yards with him.
I just dont like how spread offenses or their players translate to the NFL. I may be jumping to conclusions, but I think that a spread coach would follow the same trend.
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| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7249
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Comp picks? Here's a projection:
Oakland
The Oakland Raiders lost Kamerion Wimbley and will receive a 4th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Michael Bush and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Kevin Boss and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Samson Satele and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Jason Campbell who is cancelled out by Mike Briesel
The Oakland Raiders lost Trevor Scott who is cancelled out by Dave Tollefson
http://www.detroitlionsdraft.com/2013/01/predicting-the-compensatory-pick/2/
So we're going to get 4 comp picks???? Really??
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12585
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ZoomWaffle wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | ps dont sleep on their oc Kliff Kingsbury he is my fav oc on any level right now. on the low his offense led the SEC in rushing, passing, scoring and total yardage this year. all this while playing the bamas, lsu's, florida's etc |
Do you mean as an OC candidate for us, or just in general? Because he just took the HC job at his alma mater. Also, his offense at A&M was impressive, but how much of that was him and how much of it was Johnny Manziel? Not many QBs have the ability to run for 100 yards a game and still lead a good passing attack at the same time. If he had any other QB they wouldnt have led the SEC in rushing either, as Manziel accounted for about half their rushing yards. |
yea imo he is the best oc period. i know he just became a hc. i really wanted him to be our oc. i dont know how he will do as a hc. check his resume he has been coaching for a while and doing a good job at it. |
Meh, only in spread offenses though. I didnt follow him as a coach, so I could be completely wrong about him, I just have a bias against spread offenses in college. Sure, Houston put up big numbers with him calling the plays, but their offense was all pass and a lot of spread offenses put up similar numbers. Houston, Hawaii, Texas Tech, WV, Baylor, OK State, LA Tech, etc. A & M's offense was really mostly pass, too. Its just that Manziel is also an extrordinary runner so they racked up a ton of rushing yards with him.
I just dont like how spread offenses or their players translate to the NFL. I may be jumping to conclusions, but I think that a spread coach would follow the same trend. |
i hear what you say and yea johnny helped the run game but the rbs averaged over 5yrs a carry and one rb was 200 away from a 1k season while getting limited carries.
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| green24 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you |
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RaidersAreOne
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 4754
Location: Canada, Where All We Do Is Play Hockey And Sleep In Igloos
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| JTagg7754 wrote: | Comp picks? Here's a projection:
Oakland
The Oakland Raiders lost Kamerion Wimbley and will receive a 4th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Michael Bush and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Kevin Boss and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Samson Satele and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Jason Campbell who is cancelled out by Mike Briesel
The Oakland Raiders lost Trevor Scott who is cancelled out by Dave Tollefson
http://www.detroitlionsdraft.com/2013/01/predicting-the-compensatory-pick/2/
So we're going to get 4 comp picks???? Really?? |
Awesome! Lots of picks for Reggie to find more late round steals.
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24644
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| JTagg7754 wrote: | Comp picks? Here's a projection:
Oakland
The Oakland Raiders lost Kamerion Wimbley and will receive a 4th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Michael Bush and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Kevin Boss and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Samson Satele and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Jason Campbell who is cancelled out by Mike Briesel
The Oakland Raiders lost Trevor Scott who is cancelled out by Dave Tollefson
http://www.detroitlionsdraft.com/2013/01/predicting-the-compensatory-pick/2/
So we're going to get 4 comp picks???? Really?? |
Thats a load of bull imo. Pretty sure we cut Boss and Wimbley so we get nothing for them.
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Raidin
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4309
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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You don't get comp picks for players you cut.
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Bo_Spice
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 7076
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | luke> kalil |
Luke Joeckel may be a little more fundamentally sound than Matt Kalil, but Kalil was a better prospect. Kalil was one of the best left tackles in the league this year and is bigger, stronger, longer, and a much better athlete than Joeckel.
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12585
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bo_Spice wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | luke> kalil |
Luke Joeckel may be a little more fundamentally sound than Matt Kalil, but Kalil was a better prospect. Kalil was one of the best left tackles in the league this year and is bigger, stronger, longer, and a much better athlete than Joeckel. |
kalil imo doesnt have the same resume luke does. luke has played vrs the best week after week for the last 2 years.
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Bo_Spice
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 7076
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | kalil imo doesnt have the same resume luke does. luke has played vrs the best week after week for the last 2 years. |
Kalil played in the Pac-12 and dominated whoever was put in front of him. Kalil was one of the best left tackles in the NFL this year and was one of the key reasons for the Vikings offensive success. While Joeckel may have went up against better competition in college he's not the same type of athlete that Kalil is.
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7249
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | Comp picks? Here's a projection:
Oakland
The Oakland Raiders lost Kamerion Wimbley and will receive a 4th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Michael Bush and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Kevin Boss and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Samson Satele and will receive a 6th round pick
The Oakland Raiders lost Jason Campbell who is cancelled out by Mike Briesel
The Oakland Raiders lost Trevor Scott who is cancelled out by Dave Tollefson
http://www.detroitlionsdraft.com/2013/01/predicting-the-compensatory-pick/2/
So we're going to get 4 comp picks???? Really?? |
Thats a load of bull imo. Pretty sure we cut Boss and Wimbley so we get nothing for them. |
I thought the same thing but I didn't think this person who wrote this would be that clueless so I thought I was wrong..... LOL
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3768
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | No way the Rams give up two first and a 2nd for Joeckel. He's a good prospect but not in the league of Long/Thomas or even Kalil. I don't think Fisher is dumb enough to go for that trade. |
watch his game vrs bama
they have a qb to protect
i wonder if the bears would be interested in trading for #3 for luke |
Agree w/ Raidin. Nobody is trading up for Joeckle. He's not good enough. Kalil was a better prospect a year ago many believe.
With Lewan, Fisher and others very close to the same player no teams can be patient and find their guy.
It is going to be difficult to trade out of #3. There simply isn't value at the spot right now. Hopefully someone emerges in the offseason, but hard pressed to find anyone teams can't live without in this draft. |
With all due respect Kalil being a better prospect than Joeckel is not what I have heard/read so far. The comparison that I am hearing is Joe Thomas. It's still early but I'm tempted to but Joeckel in that range provided his measurements check out and his medical is clean.
In the pre-season I had Lewan ahead of Joeckel but imo there is significant separation between Joeckel and whoever is #2.
I think Joeckel is a more complete prospect than Kalil, who I loved btw, because of his resume, finding success playing in the more physical conference and his extensive experience in ZBS. I never saw Kalil throw a cutblock his entire career at USC. Kalil was more underweight than Joeckel is now but Kalil may have more athleticism.
It gets shivers when I think of Joeckel and Veldheer becoming best friends and working out together. Imagine Joeckel coming back in NFL sophomore season as the mountain Veldheer came back as. The NFL is waiting for the Raiders to muff this up. McKenzie is going to take Joeckel because he is the safest pick in the draft. (and yes, safe picks do bust)
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