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PhiCelek87


Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Posts: 2001
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco wrote:
Kiltman wrote:
Tackle is a need...because let's face it almost every single position can be improved. But I think it'd be dumb to blow our earliest pick in what 14 years on Joeckel or anyone else. If any of them were Pace or Ogden level prospects I say yea you take them....but they aren't.


Yikes. That's some PowerElite-type stuff right there. With that logic we shouldn't be making any draft picks. Guys like Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace and Walter Jones are rare, some of the best to ever play the spot. That's like saying "There is no Peyton Manning or Joe Montana at the top of the draft, I don't want to take any QB" or "I don't see a guy like Reggie White or Deacon Jones, no thanks on a DE". It's precisely like saying "Jason Avant isn't like Percy Harvin or Victor Cruz so he is inept". It's simply illogical.

And I hardly think using a pick on a guy like Luke Joeckel would be "blowing it". Unless of course, you think having a top of the line LT who can anchor the line for upwards of a decade is "blowing it". You make it seem as if Joeckel is some mediocre guy, he's widely regarded as one of the top two prospects in this draft and the most valuable LT prospect since Joe Thomas.

And when you consider the pieces we already have in place on the offense at the skill positions and a developing QB, I don't think investing in the OL is "blowing it
".


Specifically highlighting those last two paragraphs - a franchise tackle on a position that needs both a talent and youth boost is the smart selection in this draft. It's irresponsible to think that both Peters and Herremans are returning at their prior levels (and in Herremans case is previous level was not all that great - he's a much better guard). The only other position I would think about saying is an overwhleming need is secondary and there's no corner or safety, I'm taking top 5.

The defensive line has been much better in recent weeks since the scheme change - Graham has turned into a player, Cole deserves the benefit of a doubt that a bounce-back season is probable (maybe not to a 12 sack level, but certainly 8 sacks), and the Eagles just invested a high draft choice in Curry. Cox looks a like a stud, Thornton's a player and Jenkins has come around in recent weeks since the scheme change.
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Kiltman


Joined: 25 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco wrote:
Kiltman wrote:
Tackle is a need...because let's face it almost every single position can be improved. But I think it'd be dumb to blow our earliest pick in what 14 years on Joeckel or anyone else. If any of them were Pace or Ogden level prospects I say yea you take them....but they aren't.


Yikes. That's some PowerElite-type stuff right there. With that logic we shouldn't be making any draft picks. Guys like Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace and Walter Jones are rare, some of the best to ever play the spot. That's like saying "There is no Peyton Manning or Joe Montana at the top of the draft, I don't want to take any QB" or "I don't see a guy like Reggie White or Deacon Jones, no thanks on a DE". It's precisely like saying "Jason Avant isn't like Percy Harvin or Victor Cruz so he is inept". It's simply illogical.

And I hardly think using a pick on a guy like Luke Joeckel would be "blowing it". Unless of course, you think having a top of the line LT who can anchor the line for upwards of a decade is "blowing it". You make it seem as if Joeckel is some mediocre guy, he's widely regarded as one of the top two prospects in this draft and the most valuable LT prospect since Joe Thomas.

And when you consider the pieces we already have in place on the offense at the skill positions and a developing QB, I don't think investing in the OL is "blowing it".

Watching him I see a good prospect, but not an amazing one. And on a team that basically needs everything, it's a waste when we can actually take an elite prospect at one of those other positions.

Or if we must draft him or a tackle trade down and do so. Because the next 3/4 tackle prospects aren't much different from him.

This team has gotten screwed many times by drafting for needs, which Tackle isn't at the top of, so lets actually take the BPA.

If he was an Ogden like prospect I'd take him over Star or Moore...but he's not...so we shouldn't pick him at 3/4.


I was more impressed by Matthews when I watched A&M tape and he actually plays the side we need....yes people can switch but its not the sure fire thing some people like to make it out to be. So trade down get him and another good pick in 2013 or 2014 to use to improve the talent all around.
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NoHypeNeeded


Joined: 09 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ianlewis16 wrote:
Remixxxxxxx wrote:
We need everything besides a runningback.


this thread doesn't need to go any further than this.


Couldn't agree more.
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killdawabbit


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem I have with this draft is that there's no one guy that truly "wows" me at the top. There is a bunch of good talent, but a dearth of "blue chip" type guys. With a top 5 pick, you want a potential difference maker.

A guy like Joeckel is a very good prospect, but I'd prefer to trade down and take Matthews or Lewan (assuming there is a willing partner) while collecting extra picks either next year or relatively high this year (you could pick up a 2nd rounder and maybe more trading into the back half of the top 15) if they're going for a lineman.

I do think the Eagles need to pick up a potential starter either at RT or guard either in the draft or FA. Then you either kick Herremans inside to LG (and move Mathis over to RG as he has played there before) or simply plug in the guard. Or at least provide competition anyway.

The line depth is also a concern as has been made obvious by this year. I think they need to bring in at least 2 players either for development or that are capable spot starters.

The back end of the defense is the other obvious concern. IMO only 1 of Nnamdi or DRC will be back next season. You have to fill the hole on the other side. It's also pretty obvious that at least one of the safety spots needs a talent upgrade.

There are certainly other spots, but realistically, I think that's enough of a goal for 1 offseason. You can't fix everything all at once.
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kansas_eagle


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OL depth would probably be my first priority then Safety. If Nnamdi is willing to restructure I believe both he and DRC will be back on this team next year. DL depth would probably be my next need with Cole aging and with Landri being a FA.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. OT - Put Herremens back at RG and draft an OT.
2. S - We need at least competent safety.
3. CB - I want change at both corner spots.
4. WR - Still would like a bigger wide out.

Basically we need everything.
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RollEagles


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think every position outside of RB could use an upgrade.

Safety is the biggest issue. We can't even hope to win if we keep having busted coverages that allow receivers to run free down the field.

Offensive line has gotten better as the season has gone on. Should get better with Peters coming back but it still needs to be addressed. Bump Herremans back to guard and sign or draft a new RT.

Need a dominant receiving threat that can take over the game and open things up for Maclin and Jackson.
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Vindicatedxx


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heart and leadership.
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Meco


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Everything needs an upgrade", everything needs an upgrade? Yeah, I'm not seeing that you guys. I see spots that could and should be upgraded but I see very few true, set in stone, needs.

In my mind, we need to rebuild the defensive backfield and add a starting offensive tackle. That's it. And saying "that's it" kind of belies the fact that overhauling the defensive backs and bringing in a new starter at OT (and thus reshuffling the whole OL) are significant changes.

You can win with the guys we have at WR, TE, RB, DE, DT and LB. I don't really see why we "must" upgrade these spots and overhaul the entire roster. That's just dumb. Sure, some guys are upgradable and/or flawed (Celek and Jackson for example) but they have their positive traits and you can most assuredly win with them as your starters. And Nick Foles simply getting more experience is an upgrade in and of itself.

And the constant barrage of slander hurled at Jeremy Maclin here is dumb. If you take out the Redskins game where Foles and the OL were awful and Maclin suffered because of it, he's averaged over 6 receptions and nearly 80 yards per game since Nick Foles took over. Like I tried to say when defending Maclin earlier, Michael Vick's scattershot, streetball style didn't suit Maclin and a precise, accurate pocket passer (ala Foles) is what he needed.
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Vindicatedxx


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OL and safety. If we have two somewhat decent safeties and a starter say at RG and Peters coming back. I'd say thats a huge improvement. 3 players Maybe even a 4th at LB/DE could improve the team. Thats why we should invest in 3-4 proven players and not waste a ton of high draft picks in suspects. Trade down in the draft, theres really nobody worth our # 4 or 5 pick.
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SiLo


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Championship
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Bednarik60


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco wrote:
. Like I tried to say when defending Maclin earlier, Michael Vick's scattershot, streetball style didn't suit Maclin and a precise, accurate pocket passer (ala Foles) is what he needed.


hahaha thats awesome.. and accurate.
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vick: "hot read? naww i jus tull Martay det we wus gunna play like kizz uhgin"

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Eagles#1


Joined: 05 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco wrote:
ninjapirate wrote:
Meco wrote:
Tackle - You've got two 30+ tackles coming off of IR. One, a former guard with a foot injury who struggled at times this season. The other, a premier tackle coming off of two of the same catastrophic injury that has a high propensity for lingering effects that tend to last at least one season.

Draft a young left tackle (i.e. Joeckel) who can anchor your line for a decade, move Jason Peters to RT (where he was previously dominant in Buffalo) and slide Todd Herremans back inside (where between he and Evan Mathis, surely one could play RG). Problems solved.



Peters and Herremans are both only 30. I don't see why people freak out about their age.

Peters injury happened a long time before the season even started, reports were he was able to run a month or so ago. He can run, he can play.

Herremans injury is very rare but all players to ever have it have come back just fine.

So I'm not really worried about either injuries and they aren't really that old. They are probably both have 4-5 years left before retirement easily.


Also why would you take a 3x all pro left tackle and move him to right tackle for a rookie?

You realize you actually typed those words right?


Yeah, I did. I don't know how familiar you are with other players who have suffered ONE torn Achilles but they very clearly do not get their explosiveness back until their second season after the injury if they ever get it back at all. Torn achilles aren't torn ACLs, they've ended careers and still do. And lets not ignore the fact that Todd Herremans wasn't very good this season.

DeMeco Ryans for example. He still isn't back to pre-torn-achilles form. Haven't you noticed that Ryans is late to his spots in coverage? Doesn't get great depth on his drops? And doesn't flow sideline to sideline like he used to? He's still an asset between the tackles but his coverage skills and range still aren't what they were. Jon Beason. Tore his last year. Was having a bad year, the worst of his career, prior to tearing his ACL this season (which occasionally happens when players legs aren't up to par). Ma'ake Kemoeatu went from the starting NT of the Redskins to an end of the bench guy. Mikell LeShoure went from a guy who put up 37" vertical jump and a 1.53 10 yard split after putting up 17 TDs and nearly 1700 yards in his last college season to one of the least explosive, plodding runners in the NFL.

He's not going to be 100% right away and that's a fact. If you're blind to that, whatever, that's your problem. And he might never regain all of his athleticism, he tore his achilles twice after all. And combine these injuries with the fact that he's going to be 31 and is already entering the twilight of his career. If he doesn't have all of his abilities, you're making a mistake. If he does play well, you're just putting off the problem.

Why don't you take Jason Peters, older and injured, and put him on the right side where he can be afforded more help and face inferior strong-side pass rushers.

And if Jason Peters is back to normal but you've drafted Luke Joeckel, GREAT. That's a fantastic problem to have. You probably have the best set of tackles in the league and you can move Herremans inside.

If Jason Peters isn't 100%, let him play out his days as a RT and he'll likely be just fine over there. And then draft a left tackle and you have a guy that could anchor your line long after Peters, Mathis and Herremans are gone. That's just fine.

I can't believe that you don't think OT is a need.


What about Leon Hall, Bryan Thomas, Demsryius Thomas, Terrell Suggs, Da'Quan Bowers just to name a few that has came off Achilles injuries and seemed to play pretty well. Don't just look at one side of it
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EagleBlueDon


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco wrote:
"Everything needs an upgrade", everything needs an upgrade? Yeah, I'm not seeing that you guys. I see spots that could and should be upgraded but I see very few true, set in stone, needs.

In my mind, we need to rebuild the defensive backfield and add a starting offensive tackle. That's it. And saying "that's it" kind of belies the fact that overhauling the defensive backs and bringing in a new starter at OT (and thus reshuffling the whole OL) are significant changes.

You can win with the guys we have at WR, TE, RB, DE, DT and LB. I don't really see why we "must" upgrade these spots and overhaul the entire roster. That's just dumb. Sure, some guys are upgradable and/or flawed (Celek and Jackson for example) but they have their positive traits and you can most assuredly win with them as your starters. And Nick Foles simply getting more experience is an upgrade in and of itself.

And the constant barrage of slander hurled at Jeremy Maclin here is dumb. If you take out the Redskins game where Foles and the OL were awful and Maclin suffered because of it, he's averaged over 6 receptions and nearly 80 yards per game since Nick Foles took over. Like I tried to say when defending Maclin earlier, Michael Vick's scattershot, streetball style didn't suit Maclin and a precise, accurate pocket passer (ala Foles) is what he needed.
+1
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