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Week 17 GDT: Cleveland Dawgs Vs. Western PA Bumblebees
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Who has better helmets?
The Browns
70%
 70%  [ 14 ]
The Bumblebees
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
Trojan
20%
 20%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 20

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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 16859
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brownsfan1710 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
brownsfan1710 wrote:
I hate Joe Hadden. Laughing


And I hate fans who can't even spell their own players' names right.

Like any corner in the league could have defended that pass.


Let me rephrase. I hate when fans can't even spell their own players' names right, not the fans themselves.


I'm on my phone. Regardless, Haden gets burnt more than he makes plays.


Blame the phone, like it's keyboard is somehow different than any other piece of technology.

Anyway, do you watch other teams besides the Browns? Are you aware that it is literally impossible to defend more passes than allow passes to be completed, especially given the NFL rules?

If you hate Haden, then you must hate every CB in the NFL because you have unrealistic expectations of what a CB is capable of.

In short, I like you but you're crazy.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Someone tell Miller that the game is not over yet and he still has to block...


I think Shurmur called the "OG takes a play off" play. Not suprising since he called 3 fumble plays and an INT play. A good coach would take all of those plays out of the playbook.

I wonder if the next coach will call the "win more games" play?


A smart coach would have called sprints and rollouts away from the lineman he should have known was going to be blitzed against.

Everyone watching knew the blitz was coming to Miller's gap. Except Shrumur apparently.

Keep defending him, though. It seems like you think it makes you look like the smartest person in the room.


I'm not defending Shurmur, I'm defending against overgeneralization and oversimplification.

Miller was the problem along with Lewis and maybe even Mack. All of those players had more to do with the outcome of that play than the play call.

The call itself needed better execution OR an audible to a run play. And if neither thing would have worked, Shurmer's call would still be blamed instead of the execution.

Whatever you think SHOULD have been called still would likely fail in that situation, or do you disagree?
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EL Brownso


Joined: 14 Nov 2009
Posts: 989
Location: Alamogordo, NM
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Someone tell Miller that the game is not over yet and he still has to block...


I think Shurmur called the "OG takes a play off" play. Not suprising since he called 3 fumble plays and an INT play. A good coach would take all of those plays out of the playbook.

I wonder if the next coach will call the "win more games" play?


A smart coach would have called sprints and rollouts away from the lineman he should have known was going to be blitzed against.

Everyone watching knew the blitz was coming to Miller's gap. Except Shrumur apparently.

Keep defending him, though. It seems like you think it makes you look like the smartest person in the room.


I'm not defending Shurmur, I'm defending against overgeneralization and oversimplification.

Miller was the problem along with Lewis and maybe even Mack. All of those players had more to do with the outcome of that play than the play call.

The call itself needed better execution OR an audible to a run play. And if neither thing would have worked, Shurmer's call would still be blamed instead of the execution.

Whatever you think SHOULD have been called still would likely fail in that situation, or do you disagree?


Lewis made 1 clear mistake from what I saw. I thought his play was pretty impressive. He should have obviously been our #2. I wouldn't be surprised if they took a QB with our first pick this upcoming year.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 16859
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Someone tell Miller that the game is not over yet and he still has to block...


I think Shurmur called the "OG takes a play off" play. Not suprising since he called 3 fumble plays and an INT play. A good coach would take all of those plays out of the playbook.

I wonder if the next coach will call the "win more games" play?


A smart coach would have called sprints and rollouts away from the lineman he should have known was going to be blitzed against.

Everyone watching knew the blitz was coming to Miller's gap. Except Shrumur apparently.

Keep defending him, though. It seems like you think it makes you look like the smartest person in the room.


I'm not defending Shurmur, I'm defending against overgeneralization and oversimplification.

Miller was the problem along with Lewis and maybe even Mack. All of those players had more to do with the outcome of that play than the play call.

The call itself needed better execution OR an audible to a run play. And if neither thing would have worked, Shurmer's call would still be blamed instead of the execution.

Whatever you think SHOULD have been called still would likely fail in that situation, or do you disagree?


I disagree that you continue to call plays the same regardless of the personnel you have in the game.

Yes, execution is of the utmost importance for a play's success, but the play itself must be designed and called for the best chance of successful execution.

Rarely did we ever see Shurmur do that.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 45324
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bungleodeon wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
bungleodeon wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
bungleodeon wrote:
So it's official, Mangini won more games as the Browns HC than Shurmur.


Neither really got a fair shake during their time here... Hopefully they both find success elsewhere.
You're absolutely right on the not getting a fair shake thing, but it is quite ironic. I wonder if people will spit on Shurmur as much as they did Mangini.


shurmur lost with young kids that at least looked like they could have a bright future

mangini lost with guys who are out of the league a year or two later simply because they are getting old. i'll take the young kids.
You said that before the season too. And before last season. Yet somehow we still can't win more than 5 games.

I don't care if we are playing with 100 year old men or toddlers, it would be nice if we could stop throwing away seasons year after year with clearly inferior rosters.


yet somehow it looks like we have a bright future...

the reality is this. we are impatient in cleveland. we don't wait patiently, we just wait. until we wait patiently for winning seasons, we won't get one.

plain and simple. won't happen though. just RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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fatpig


Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 2365
Location: cleveland
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i left the bar with about 7min to go when all hope was gone. tuned in on the radio in the car for some entertainment and Jim Donovan didn't disappoint.

"aaand Johnson goes down, fumbles, recovered by the steelers. and this season will end with 2 different quarterbacks getting absolutely leveled. why in the heck would Shurmur put him in there under center?" other guy: "i don't know, there are many questions i have after this season"
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 45324
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bungleodeon wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
bulldog wrote:
bungleodeon wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
bungleodeon wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
bungleodeon wrote:
So it's official, Mangini won more games as the Browns HC than Shurmur.


Neither really got a fair shake during their time here... Hopefully they both find success elsewhere.
You're absolutely right on the not getting a fair shake thing, but it is quite ironic. I wonder if people will spit on Shurmur as much as they did Mangini.


The difference is mangini drafted his players and did a [inappropriate/removed] poor job at it . I think mangini was a damned coach, just poor talent guy who left the team without much.


Shurmur is just dumb lol
I'm not even going to get into this debate for the 400th time, but for all the great talent we have gotten since Heckert took over, we still haven't eclipsed a 5 win season with his players. Maybe the fact we had so many rookies playing key roles wasn't a great idea after all? (oh wait i said that all along) But that was all on Heckert. I love when we just throw away seasons (like we have for the last 4 season).


So if the rookies aren't supposed to play these key roles, who do you suggest do?


No to mention Heckart was not about winning right now. Heckart was all about building a team that could win consistantly for a decade plus.
He built a team that sucked 3 years in a row...


And he inherited almost zero talent... four good players- all of which were retained because, well you guessed it, they bought into the system. Thomas explicitly said that he would have left had they not hired a guy who bought into the system and that he liked the system.

The players get it. The fans don't seem to.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 45324
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
Entropy wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Someone tell Miller that the game is not over yet and he still has to block...


I think Shurmur called the "OG takes a play off" play. Not suprising since he called 3 fumble plays and an INT play. A good coach would take all of those plays out of the playbook.

I wonder if the next coach will call the "win more games" play?


A smart coach would have called sprints and rollouts away from the lineman he should have known was going to be blitzed against.

Everyone watching knew the blitz was coming to Miller's gap. Except Shrumur apparently.

Keep defending him, though. It seems like you think it makes you look like the smartest person in the room.


I'm not defending Shurmur, I'm defending against overgeneralization and oversimplification.

Miller was the problem along with Lewis and maybe even Mack. All of those players had more to do with the outcome of that play than the play call.

The call itself needed better execution OR an audible to a run play. And if neither thing would have worked, Shurmer's call would still be blamed instead of the execution.

Whatever you think SHOULD have been called still would likely fail in that situation, or do you disagree?


I disagree that you continue to call plays the same regardless of the personnel you have in the game.

Yes, execution is of the utmost importance for a play's success, but the play itself must be designed and called for the best chance of successful execution.

Rarely did we ever see Shurmur do that.


The play must be designed because it works if you execute it correctly. You don't bastardize your ideals. You get to work and you work harder. At least thats how I was brought up.

You practice and you practice.

The WCO works. The WCO didn't work here. WCO didn't work for Bill Walsh his first two years either.
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KamTrus20


Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 5396
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot believe there are people on this board defending Pat Shurmur and people glad to see Heckart gone.

Something spun out of control somewhere.
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hornbybrown


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 15869
Location: 1600 Pennyslvania Ave
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOLY CRAP JIMMY HASLIM'S OFFICAL TWITTER JUST REPLYED TO A TWEET OF MINE SAYING I COULD DRAFT BETTER THAN LOMBARDI.


HE ASKED FOR MY RESUME Shocked
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Adopt a Brown 2014
Miles Austin 16 Recs 169 Yds 2 TD's
Pierre Desir
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 16859
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hornbybrown wrote:
HOLY CRAP JIMMY HASLIM'S OFFICAL TWITTER JUST REPLYED TO A TWEET OF MINE SAYING I COULD DRAFT BETTER THAN LOMBARDI.


HE ASKED FOR MY RESUME Shocked


Well what are you doing posting here?

YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY OF A LIFETIME!! GET YOUR RESUME TOGETHER NOW!!!!1!!!1!!
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 45324
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KamTrus20 wrote:
I cannot believe there are people on this board defending Pat Shurmur and people glad to see Heckart gone.

Something spun out of control somewhere.


I cannot believe there are people on this board who think that Shurmur hasn't done anything worthwhile in his two years here, or that the future of this team looks bright mainly in part because of him.

Impatient lot around here.
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fatpig


Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 2365
Location: cleveland
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
Entropy wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Someone tell Miller that the game is not over yet and he still has to block...


I think Shurmur called the "OG takes a play off" play. Not suprising since he called 3 fumble plays and an INT play. A good coach would take all of those plays out of the playbook.

I wonder if the next coach will call the "win more games" play?


A smart coach would have called sprints and rollouts away from the lineman he should have known was going to be blitzed against.

Everyone watching knew the blitz was coming to Miller's gap. Except Shrumur apparently.

Keep defending him, though. It seems like you think it makes you look like the smartest person in the room.


I'm not defending Shurmur, I'm defending against overgeneralization and oversimplification.

Miller was the problem along with Lewis and maybe even Mack. All of those players had more to do with the outcome of that play than the play call.

The call itself needed better execution OR an audible to a run play. And if neither thing would have worked, Shurmer's call would still be blamed instead of the execution.

Whatever you think SHOULD have been called still would likely fail in that situation, or do you disagree?


I disagree that you continue to call plays the same regardless of the personnel you have in the game.

Yes, execution is of the utmost importance for a play's success, but the play itself must be designed and called for the best chance of successful execution.

Rarely did we ever see Shurmur do that.


The play must be designed because it works if you execute it correctly. You don't bastardize your ideals. You get to work and you work harder. At least thats how I was brought up.

You practice and you practice.

The WCO works. The WCO didn't work here. WCO didn't work for Bill Walsh his first two years either.


Shurmur's play calling flat out sucks. he keeps the QBs on a leash, doesn't play them to their strengths, calls the same repetitive short cross routes in 3rd and long situations. he did the same thing with the Rams. i agree that browns fans have no patience, but it really is hard when i don't see any future progress with him designing or calling the plays.

he consistently doesn't go for point at the end of the 1st half. any other team with 1min to go and 3 time outs would take some shots down the field. especially when trailing by 7pts.

have you listened to Shurmur's press conferences? he's certainly not a guy I could see commanding respect in the locker room and establishing an identity for the Browns.
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hornbybrown


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 15869
Location: 1600 Pennyslvania Ave
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
hornbybrown wrote:
HOLY CRAP JIMMY HASLIM'S OFFICAL TWITTER JUST REPLYED TO A TWEET OF MINE SAYING I COULD DRAFT BETTER THAN LOMBARDI.


HE ASKED FOR MY RESUME Shocked


Well what are you doing posting here?

YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY OF A LIFETIME!! GET YOUR RESUME TOGETHER NOW!!!!1!!!1!!


I just asked where to send it.
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Adopt a Brown 2014
Miles Austin 16 Recs 169 Yds 2 TD's
Pierre Desir
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 45324
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpig wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
Entropy wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Someone tell Miller that the game is not over yet and he still has to block...


I think Shurmur called the "OG takes a play off" play. Not suprising since he called 3 fumble plays and an INT play. A good coach would take all of those plays out of the playbook.

I wonder if the next coach will call the "win more games" play?


A smart coach would have called sprints and rollouts away from the lineman he should have known was going to be blitzed against.

Everyone watching knew the blitz was coming to Miller's gap. Except Shrumur apparently.

Keep defending him, though. It seems like you think it makes you look like the smartest person in the room.


I'm not defending Shurmur, I'm defending against overgeneralization and oversimplification.

Miller was the problem along with Lewis and maybe even Mack. All of those players had more to do with the outcome of that play than the play call.

The call itself needed better execution OR an audible to a run play. And if neither thing would have worked, Shurmer's call would still be blamed instead of the execution.

Whatever you think SHOULD have been called still would likely fail in that situation, or do you disagree?


I disagree that you continue to call plays the same regardless of the personnel you have in the game.

Yes, execution is of the utmost importance for a play's success, but the play itself must be designed and called for the best chance of successful execution.

Rarely did we ever see Shurmur do that.


The play must be designed because it works if you execute it correctly. You don't bastardize your ideals. You get to work and you work harder. At least thats how I was brought up.

You practice and you practice.

The WCO works. The WCO didn't work here. WCO didn't work for Bill Walsh his first two years either.


Shurmur's play calling flat out sucks. he keeps the QBs on a leash, doesn't play them to their strengths, calls the same repetitive short cross routes in 3rd and long situations. he did the same thing with the Rams. i agree that browns fans have no patience, but it really is hard when i don't see any future progress with him designing or calling the plays.

he consistently doesn't go for point at the end of the 1st half. any other team with 1min to go and 3 time outs would take some shots down the field. especially when trailing by 7pts.

have you listened to Shurmur's press conferences? he's certainly not a guy I could see commanding respect in the locker room and establishing an identity for the Browns.


Wat?

you know i love ya pig but come on--- the players love playing for him. D'Qwell Jackson just said he'd run through a wall for him. Sheldon Brown has echoed the same sentiments. Thomas said he resigned here because of his hiring.

Ever maybe think they like playing for him because he takes shots on the chin from the media for his players?

Also just look at other WCOs around the league. When the SAME FREAKIN PLAYS are ran with perfection, you get Aaron Rodgers. When you don't run it to perfection it doesnt work. THATS THE WCO. Walsh didn't get it perfect in two years either.

Benjamin and Gordon had high YPCs. Cant get high YPCs without big plays. Big plays seemed to suit them well. But we did nothing at all that played into their streingths..
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