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How do we fix our QB Situation?
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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 3758
Location: Manhattan, NY
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted this is another thread, but I feel like we'll have a good chance at Geno unless he has a ridiculously good combine. The wildcard is Jax, but realistically, he's not worth number 1 (Joeckel prob?), Jax could take him, but Blaine is still very young, Oakland will prob take the BPA because they have carson and want to see what they have is pryor, Detroit and Philly won't take him. Then comes Cleveland. Norv has ties to Alex Smith, so Alex will prob end up in Cleveland. Which means that we could prob trade maybe our first, a 3rd, and a late round pick to jump up to Cleveland's pick to take Geno if we wanted him before the cards or bills could
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KBS756


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barnaby8787 wrote:
I posted this is another thread, but I feel like we'll have a good chance at Geno unless he has a ridiculously good combine. The wildcard is Jax, but realistically, he's not worth number 1 (Joeckel prob?), Jax could take him, but Blaine is still very young, Oakland will prob take the BPA because they have carson and want to see what they have is pryor, Detroit and Philly won't take him. Then comes Cleveland. Norv has ties to Alex Smith, so Alex will prob end up in Cleveland. Which means that we could prob trade maybe our first, a 3rd, and a late round pick to jump up to Cleveland's pick to take Geno if we wanted him before the cards or bills could


I dont want to trade up regardless of who it is this year. I'd rather pick up the pieces and sign a veteran while lookin for a QB late in the draft (3rd round and after) or defer to next year. With what we have in place now we have no hope of having offensive success...

We need a multi dimensional back who doesnt telegraph to the defense what we're gonna do by his presence.

We need to upgrade the interior of the line because you can step up to evade pressure from the outside but if ur pocket is wrecked up the middle we're gonna have a host of issues

We probably need a new TE so I hope we manage to Sign & Trade keller or something like that to someone who overvalues him so we can get a more rounded TE in the draft and not squander big bucks on a guy who's been pretty inconsistent his whole career

We need to put at least some of those pieces in place before we expect something from the offense ...

On Defense just hoping for at least one Pass Rusher in the draft and retaining one of our safeties, hopefully Landry and making him play more SS then FS

Either way I dont see an franchise QB in this draft for us and we arent just a QB away from having an offense so I would hope we draft people who are more sure fire talents early and take a developmental QB later along with a veteran in FA.

Someone like E.J. Manuel late ... he'll have some time on the bench to develop and NFL coaching could do a lot for his issues (obviously assuming we get the right offensive coaching staff in place like Hue Jackson)

And if he doesnt pan out we only blew a 4th or so (assuming his physical measurements dont shoot him up draft boards)
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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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Location: Manhattan, NY
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KBS756 wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
I posted this is another thread, but I feel like we'll have a good chance at Geno unless he has a ridiculously good combine. The wildcard is Jax, but realistically, he's not worth number 1 (Joeckel prob?), Jax could take him, but Blaine is still very young, Oakland will prob take the BPA because they have carson and want to see what they have is pryor, Detroit and Philly won't take him. Then comes Cleveland. Norv has ties to Alex Smith, so Alex will prob end up in Cleveland. Which means that we could prob trade maybe our first, a 3rd, and a late round pick to jump up to Cleveland's pick to take Geno if we wanted him before the cards or bills could


I dont want to trade up regardless of who it is this year. I'd rather pick up the pieces and sign a veteran while lookin for a QB late in the draft (3rd round and after) or defer to next year. With what we have in place now we have no hope of having offensive success...

We need a multi dimensional back who doesnt telegraph to the defense what we're gonna do by his presence.

We need to upgrade the interior of the line because you can step up to evade pressure from the outside but if ur pocket is wrecked up the middle we're gonna have a host of issues

We probably need a new TE so I hope we manage to Sign & Trade keller or something like that to someone who overvalues him so we can get a more rounded TE in the draft and not squander big bucks on a guy who's been pretty inconsistent his whole career

We need to put at least some of those pieces in place before we expect something from the offense ...

On Defense just hoping for at least one Pass Rusher in the draft and retaining one of our safeties, hopefully Landry and making him play more SS then FS

Either way I dont see an franchise QB in this draft for us and we arent just a QB away from having an offense so I would hope we draft people who are more sure fire talents early and take a developmental QB later along with a veteran in FA.

Someone like E.J. Manuel late ... he'll have some time on the bench to develop and NFL coaching could do a lot for his issues (obviously assuming we get the right offensive coaching staff in place like Hue Jackson)

And if he doesnt pan out we only blew a 4th or so (assuming his physical measurements dont shoot him up draft boards)
Agreed, but at the end of the day, if the front office confidently believes that he can be our franchise QB, you HAVE to trade up and get him
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RDawg10


Joined: 26 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The worst thing this team could do, would be to trade up for geno smith. Im for one, not a believer in Geno smith. His talent ceiling is no greater than a Wilson or a Glennon. We need to sit back and take the best pass rusher available at nine. Then take the best quarterback available at our second pick. Hopefully a wilson or glennon is still there. With the depth the way we have it, we need picks and need players that wont cost much. We have invested way to much in some big contracts and it would be smart for us to trade back. I honestly would say i think there is a 75 % chance we try and trade back.
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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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Location: Manhattan, NY
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RDawg10 wrote:
The worst thing this team could do, would be to trade up for geno smith. Im for one, not a believer in Geno smith. His talent ceiling is no greater than a Wilson or a Glennon. We need to sit back and take the best pass rusher available at nine. Then take the best quarterback available at our second pick. Hopefully a wilson or glennon is still there. With the depth the way we have it, we need picks and need players that wont cost much. We have invested way to much in some big contracts and it would be smart for us to trade back. I honestly would say i think there is a 75 % chance we try and trade back.
Again, i'm not defending Smith by any means. My whole point was that basically every QB in the draft could be on the board when Cleveland picks. Smith aside, if the front office feels that any of the QB's (pinpointing Smith because in most scouts eyes, he's the most polished) are worthy of trading up, i'm saying I wouldn't balk at the idea. Do I think we should trade up? No. I'm just saying that if the front office feels that one of the QB's could be our franchise QB, I wouldn't be opposed to the move.
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KBS756


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I stated before we need to get the pieces in place before we throw a QB in the fire ... We desperately need 1 Guard at Minimum... and a all around runningback to give QBs a safety outlet and someone who can actually block. I remember watching highlights of Sanchez pointin out the Blitz man and tellin the HB to block and they just completely missed, didnt hear it, or flat out failed to block far too often. We need to protect our QB whoever it is ...

Also we need to have offensive weapons. Assuming everyone comes back healthy we should be ok at WR but we do still need a TE especially with Keller Leaving and wanting too much money for too less production.

We have to build around the QB position
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GangGreen420


Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 2560
Location: FL
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KBS756 wrote:
Like I stated before we need to get the pieces in place before we throw a QB in the fire ... We desperately need 1 Guard at Minimum... and a all around runningback to give QBs a safety outlet and someone who can actually block. I remember watching highlights of Sanchez pointin out the Blitz man and tellin the HB to block and they just completely missed, didnt hear it, or flat out failed to block far too often. We need to protect our QB whoever it is ...

Also we need to have offensive weapons. Assuming everyone comes back healthy we should be ok at WR but we do still need a TE especially with Keller Leaving and wanting too much money for too less production.

We have to build around the QB position


Would have been nice if we had a smart enough staff to do this the past 4 years.
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KingOfTheHill84


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how do we know what Geno will amount to, I mean if we could see into the future then I understand the concern but this kid has it all and just needs a few tweaks to his game
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KBS756


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheHill84 wrote:
how do we know what Geno will amount to, I mean if we could see into the future then I understand the concern but this kid has it all and just needs a few tweaks to his game


Really what it comes down to for me is we arent a team that is 1 player a QB away from a SuperBowl (unless that QB was Peyton Manning)

We have too many needs on the field to Trade Up for a QB who is hit or miss. I dont think anyone has Geno Smith as a prospect as good as RG3, Andrew Luck, Bradford so you dont trade up for a guy ur not assured on.

We need as I mentioned before Help at HB, OG, and possibly TE on offense whoever we throw into QB is gonna struggle unless we somewhat deal with that.

I'd rather go with best player available. Say Geno drops to #9 and our front office is 100% sold on him especially whoever our OC is (hopefully someone who knows how to develop a QB) sure I have nothing against drafting him then.

Just dont trade up when we need every pick we can get being tight on Cap space with many holes. We need to get a pass rusher in this draft to solidify the Defense and we need to address the above stated offensive issues in the draft or free agency.

As things stand we arent going to go anywhere with almost any QB unless we put them in a position to succeed and that isnt going to happen overnight with how many needs we have.

Personally I am not sold on any QB in this draft as day 1 starter and feel every single one of them should ride the bench and learn as the talent is brought around them and they get up to speed with the NFL. The very last thing we want to do is break another promising QB prospect by putting him in an impossible situation and praying it works without crushing his confidence

That is why I feel if we have a man who can develop a QB we draft someone with the physical tools and a high work ethic late. Someone who we feel has what it takes but needs work ... draft him late if he's there and take your time and develop him right.

The only quick fix we are going to have is a Veteran who wants a starter shot. In terms of veterans I'm not sure how enticing we are to someone like Alex Smith who probably wants more money, but someone like Jason Campbell who didnt throw away the ball and hurt his team would be serviceable for a season. Even Matt Moore.

Jason Campbell has a 76-52 Career TD to INT ratio 14 Fumbles Lost 6 Rushing TDs 82 - 68 Overall 1.21
Matt Moore has a 33-26 Career TD to INT ratio 8 Fumbles 2 Rushing TDs Lost 35 -34 Overall 1.06
Alex Smith has a 81-63 Career TD to INT ratio 19 Fumbles 4 Rushing TDs Lost Overall 85-82 Overall 1.04

Higher Number is better

Know Vick isnt too popular here and ... well facing the facts we prob dont have the $$ to bring him in but here's his stats just for kicks.

Michael Vick 123 - 82 Career TD to INT ratio 39 Fumbles Lost 34 Rushing TDs 157 - 121 Overall 1.30

Probably also makes sense to add Sanchez

Mark Sanchez 68 - 69 Career TD to INT ratio 17 Fumbles Lost 12 Rushing TDs 80 - 86 Overall 0.93





Alex Smith though in my opinion did play with a very talented Offense which helped his numbers.

So in short Build around the QB Position for the long haul. Sign a Veteran QB who can hopefully not turn the ball over too much and be somewhat effective.

If ur man isnt there at your pick we arent in a position to spend picks and trade up. Draft someone late and develop him if the coaching staff thinks that will work, or hold off till next year when the situation for any incoming QB should be far better and not result in crushing the guy's confidence.
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JMG


Joined: 23 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The QB that makes most sense for the success for the Jets is probably Alex Smith. Exactly what the Jets need at QB and could be a good QB with good options around him. We need to solidify the O-Line.

The QB that makes most sense as a "Jet Type Of Move" would be Mike Vick. I could definitely see Woody trying to make a splash by going out and signing Vick. That just seems like a move the Jets would make.
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KBS756


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMG wrote:
The QB that makes most sense for the success for the Jets is probably Alex Smith. Exactly what the Jets need at QB and could be a good QB with good options around him. We need to solidify the O-Line.

The QB that makes most sense as a "Jet Type Of Move" would be Mike Vick. I could definitely see Woody trying to make a splash by going out and signing Vick. That just seems like a move the Jets would make.


Personally I think getting Hue Jackson and Jason Campbell makes most sense.
He'll know the offense and has a better track record then all but Vick. and Vick will probably cost too much while someone like Campbell could come cheap.

But in all honesty a move for Vick really is the right one if we are going to have a win now mentality he gives us the best chance to do it. But his price tag I. Terms of trade and salary will be too high.... Not to mention the media crap for no reason.

If Jason Campbell wants a shot to start we should be able to tempt him to come here ... While we try to dispose of Sanchez and find a QB to develop in the draft[/list]
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RDawg10


Joined: 26 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KBS756 wrote:
JMG wrote:
The QB that makes most sense for the success for the Jets is probably Alex Smith. Exactly what the Jets need at QB and could be a good QB with good options around him. We need to solidify the O-Line.

The QB that makes most sense as a "Jet Type Of Move" would be Mike Vick. I could definitely see Woody trying to make a splash by going out and signing Vick. That just seems like a move the Jets would make.


Personally I think getting Hue Jackson and Jason Campbell makes most sense.
He'll know the offense and has a better track record then all but Vick. and Vick will probably cost too much while someone like Campbell could come cheap.

But in all honesty a move for Vick really is the right one if we are going to have a win now mentality he gives us the best chance to do it. But his price tag I. Terms of trade and salary will be too high.... Not to mention the media crap for no reason.

If Jason Campbell wants a shot to start we should be able to tempt him to come here ... While we try to dispose of Sanchez and find a QB to develop in the draft[/list]


The ideal move is going to be sign a veteran and draft a guy in the later rounds. Its low risk high reward. This draft has questionable quarterbacks across the board. The talent is at OLB and OL. Drafting and OLB at 9 and drafting a Fluker or Cooper at our 2nd pick would be the best step for this team. I want guys that have the ability to be elite. I know this team can win with an average quarterback whose smart with the football and an offensive line - slauson + Fluker.
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ekill08x


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheHill84 wrote:
how do we know what Geno will amount to, I mean if we could see into the future then I understand the concern but this kid has it all and just needs a few tweaks to his game


LOL seriously? Has it all? He beat up bad competition and was mediocre againts good competition. He plays in a spread offense that completely inflates a QBs statistics and has one of the slowest deliveries in this years class. Theres not one thing about him that stands out. Let KC take him and have him struggle.
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KingOfTheHill84


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekill08x wrote:
KingOfTheHill84 wrote:
how do we know what Geno will amount to, I mean if we could see into the future then I understand the concern but this kid has it all and just needs a few tweaks to his game


LOL seriously? Has it all? He beat up bad competition and was mediocre againts good competition. He plays in a spread offense that completely inflates a QBs statistics and has one of the slowest deliveries in this years class. Theres not one thing about him that stands out. Let KC take him and have him struggle.


LOL seriously? he has a quick release, great size, arm strength, he's mobile but doesn't using running as a weapon, pure pocket passer, dont knock the guy for the offense he ran in college(that has nothing to do with his pro potential)

I just seen Colin Kaepernick win a playoff game, I've seen Mark Sanchez win 4, hell Tim Tebow won 1 as well. Geno Smith is a better QB than all 3
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rickyt31


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we were to get Geno,I would still want to sign a Vet to start for atleast half of the season. He got a lot to work on. Things like not locking on one target all the time , Not throwing off his back foot when pressure comes through the middle, and he'll have to get use to taking snaps from under center. I read some where the he has a great work ethic and studies film. Maybe if we were to hire a OC who is good with QB's and surround the position with solid talent, he might do well.

I'm not a big fan of him, but if he was selected, I would support it. Don't really have a choice, I'm tired of losing.
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