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YoungBucs15
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3076
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 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| RoeKG wrote: | | CHOMP_CHOMP wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | | RoeKG wrote: | I don't think Schiano should be on the hot seat, but I do think that with the state the franchise has been in, Dominik has to be in trouble. 4 years with 1 winning season and no playoffs is not good.
Freeman has to be on the hot seat, too. But not Schiano, not yet. |
Finally some one who agrees.
I think the entire scouting department and frot office needs to be re-evaluated. |
I honestly done understand your problems with our scouting department. I get Freeman hasnt turned out to be exactly what we were looking for. But for where we were in the draft, it was a very good pick. We havent spent a ton of money on him, and if he doesnt perform next year, we move on.
Gerald McCoy was hindered by injuries to begin his career but has really come on this year. He is a monster in the run game, and also creates a ton of disruption in the back field with his penetration. Sack totals can be misleading, and he hasnt gotten any help whatsoever.
Bowers and Clayborn have both shown flashes of being very good pass rushers and when everyone is back healthy, i think we will have a very good d-line.
I just think you, and Bucs fans in general need to calm down. We were never supposed to be even near this good this year. We are a very young team who is still in the rebuilding process with a new coach. I just think this discussion is ridiculous and all you fair weather fans need to get lost! |
I'm not saying Dominik should be in trouble from some sort of manic state or anything. It's a pretty general statement. Dom's drafts aren't all about the 1st rounders. In 4 years, I would say he has really only nailed about 3 picks: Martin, David, and Mike Williams. He did well in Free Agency, but McCoy was such an obvious pick it shouldn't even be credited to him. Clayborn and Bowers could be good, but we're not sure yet. Regardless, in 4 drafts he hasn't produced a ton of great talent and taking Freeman (who Morris may have had a lot to do with) may have set back this team by a lot.
Look at the young stars that the Steelers or Packers have produced in the same span of time, and look at who we have. It just doesn't compare. Like I said way back before the draft, Dom does pretty well in rounds 1, 2 and 7. All else is pretty bad, and last year's draft was the same way. The lack of talent produced in those middle rounds is a good portion of what is holding this team back.
I don't dislike Dom, we sure could be doing worse (Allen...shudder...), but it's not like he has been killing it. At the end of the day the team isn't winning and seats aren't selling, so being supportive of him seems like a losing battle. |
So i went and looked at those drafts, just 4 years back. The players I would take from the Steelers are Mike Wallace, Maurkice Pouncey, David Decastro on potential and Antonio Brown. While there are some ok players there outside them, nothing jumps outside those 4 to me right now. A lot of average players.
On to the Packers
I would take Casey Heyward, Randall Cobb, BJ Raji and Clay Matthews. Maybe Nick Perry and Jerel Worthy if i'm taking a players with potential.
So to me both teams hit on anywhere from 4-6 in that same 4 year span to 2009.
While in those years I would take Doug Martin, Lavonte David, Gerald McCoy and Mike Williams. If we were to add in players with potential like i did for them that adds Mark Barron, Adrian Clayborn, Da'Quan Bowers and Mason Foster and Josh Freeman. What we are really seeing is the after effects of such power drafting from the Bruce Allen days. We are talking about drafts 2004 to 2009. These are the drafts that should have provided us with solid talent then and depth now, however the only players we have from that time period is Davin Joseph, Adam Hayward, Jeremy Trueblood, Quincy Black and Jeremy Zuttah. That's it out of 47 picks we have 1 pro bowl guard and average depth players.
That is the difference between us and teams like the Packers and Steelers. While they are hitting every pick, it is a consistent that they get 2-3 good players from every draft and we have turned that around in recent years.
Our stretch of horrible drafts is part of one of the bigger issues that this franchises has faced and have been climbing back out of for some time now. To me the key is to come away from each draft with a solid 3-4 players consistently. The only one you can't afford to miss on is that QB and the jury is still out on ours.
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Lil' Shorty
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 2499
Location: NC...surrounded by lame Panther fans.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hahaha. The title of this thread is comical. Really? Considering how screwed up our CB situation is and the fact that our DL is average and had possibly its best player put on IR as well as having an incompetent DC, considering all that Schiano needs to be on the hot seat? Wow. You do realize that with a new DC and better DBs the D will be a good bit better right? Even looking at scheme, a better DC should be able to get to the QB better. Plus, this is Schiano's 1st year. I think he worked the guys too hard thru the first half of the year and it wore the players out. He is learning. Not the worst of problems. Plus he signed a 5 year deal. Schiano will be around for a while boys. But with better players and especially a better DC we have a lot to look forward to.
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3793
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Lil' Shorty wrote: | | Hahaha. The title of this thread is comical. Really? Considering how screwed up our CB situation is and the fact that our DL is average and had possibly its best player put on IR as well as having an incompetent DC, considering all that Schiano needs to be on the hot seat? Wow. You do realize that with a new DC and better DBs the D will be a good bit better right? Even looking at scheme, a better DC should be able to get to the QB better. Plus, this is Schiano's 1st year. I think he worked the guys too hard thru the first half of the year and it wore the players out. He is learning. Not the worst of problems. Plus he signed a 5 year deal. Schiano will be around for a while boys. But with better players and especially a better DC we have a lot to look forward to. |
Yup no way he leaves. When e was hired the choices for assistants were limited bc he was hired late in the ball game. The guys who he wanted as coordinators he was rejected to talk to them. I think it's a definate that Sheridan will be fired immediately come seasons end.
Sully? I think he stays. He's done a solid job in play calling. |
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DaRealdeal
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 8610
Location: Jamison. on the sig
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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The regression is concerning, sure, but canning Schiano after only one season isn't the answer. Should we keep pressing the reset button until some coach comes in and brings us to the playoffs in their first year with us?
He took over a team that quit on their coach last season. New schemes were implemented across the board and we are still one of the youngest teams in the league. What did you really expect?
Give it more than 16 games...
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| DaRealdeal wrote: | The regression is concerning, sure, but canning Schiano after only one season isn't the answer. Should we keep pressing the reset button until some coach comes in and brings us to the playoffs in their first year with us?
He took over a team that quit on their coach last season. New schemes were implemented across the board and we are still one of the youngest teams in the league. What did you really expect?
Give it more than 16 games... |
Yep agree. Schiano still needs another offseason to build his team. He's still weeding out the guys from te Raheem/Dom regime. He wants high character football players.
The bg question is: what is Schianos truthful view of josh freeman ? |
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Caaddy24
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 4829
Location: cali/texas
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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How is this thread 3 pages?
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Regarding Trent Green...
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deuces22wild
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 5679
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Caaddy24 wrote: | | How is this thread 3 pages? |
Mark Dominik was brought into the discussion.
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RB4TampaBay
Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Posts: 320
Location: Seminole, FL
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Caaddy24 wrote: | | How is this thread 3 pages? |
I guess that's because we filled up the first two.    |
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5nick5
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 1079
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Caaddy24 wrote: | | How is this thread 3 pages? |
I don't understand why anybody bothered to respond to this guy. Anybody with the slightest bit of Buccaneers football knowledge knows Schiano should stick around.
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Buccaneer Bruce
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| 5nick5 wrote: | | Caaddy24 wrote: | | How is this thread 3 pages? |
I don't understand why anybody bothered to respond to this guy. Anybody with the slightest bit of Buccaneers football knowledge knows Schiano should stick around. |
6 game losing streaks to end seasons should concern some folks. |
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3793
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Buccaneer Bruce wrote: | | 5nick5 wrote: | | Caaddy24 wrote: | | How is this thread 3 pages? |
I don't understand why anybody bothered to respond to this guy. Anybody with the slightest bit of Buccaneers football knowledge knows Schiano should stick around. |
6 game losing streaks to end seasons should concern some folks. |
Also, get a clue, that this isn't Schiano's team. This is the team he got from Mark Dominik/Raheem Morris. You can't cut everybody and build the team you want in one off-season either.
Josh Freeman, pass rush and the secondary. These aren't guys Schiano brought in (except Barron). Even the coaches weren't his first choice guys either.
You don't fire a coach after one year who improved the team from last years disaster that is a young team. What we're finding out now is, Josh Freeman may not be the answer. Probably isn't. He inherited a troubled CB bunch, where both starters were morons off the field. Good. Got rid of the bad seeds.
If this is year 3, I'd agree with you. But let Schiano run HIS team. |
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Buccaneer Bruce
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Even bad teams fall into a win in the last 2 months of the season, if it weren't for the Chiefs we would be the worst team in the league.. starts with the HC. |
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3793
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Buccaneer Bruce wrote: | | Even bad teams fall into a win in the last 2 months of the season, if it weren't for the Chiefs we would be the worst team in the league.. starts with the HC. |
You can complain all you want. He's not going anywhere pal. If he went 1-15 or 0-16, I see your point.
6-10>4-12 from last year.
That will buy him another year. He gets rid of Freeman, it'd buy him more time. Only problem is, finding that replacement. Matt Flynn? |
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RoeKG
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4005
Location: PA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | | Buccaneer Bruce wrote: | | Even bad teams fall into a win in the last 2 months of the season, if it weren't for the Chiefs we would be the worst team in the league.. starts with the HC. |
You can complain all you want. He's not going anywhere pal. If he went 1-15 or 0-16, I see your point.
6-10>4-12 from last year.
That will buy him another year. He gets rid of Freeman, it'd buy him more time. Only problem is, finding that replacement. Matt Flynn? |
I think Matt Flynn could get the job done, regardless of whether or not he could beat out Russell Wilson.
Whether he comes in and is the average starter we pine for, or whether he would push Freeman to another level, it could be a good pickup either way.
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Caaddy24
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 4829
Location: cali/texas
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| RB4TampaBay wrote: | | Caaddy24 wrote: | | How is this thread 3 pages? |
I guess that's because we filled up the first two. |
obviously 
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Regarding Trent Green...
| ironman2008 wrote: | | He needs to retire before finishing a coloring book is the most fun of the day |
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