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Schiano SHOULD be on the hot seat?
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8495
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buccaneer Bruce wrote:
bucstopshere wrote:
Buccaneer Bruce wrote:
Also, Mark Barron has been.... uhhmmm well, abysmal.


i hate to sit here and make excuses for this team, and players but your expecting a ton out of a rookie that has no help from corners. John Lynch looked like a bust for the first three years of his career.

Everyone expects too much too soon. No time for development or plans. If you dont win now get out. It's mind bogling how impatient everyone is getting nowadays


Mark Barron was a top 10 pick. Barron was supposed to be a STUD and I mean STUD tackler.. he has missed a lot of tackles. Hell he was putting forth so little effort he got blocked by Amendola and took out Ahmad Black and gave up the last 40 yards of the TD on the first play of the second half. I would say Dominik and Schiano misjudged just how good Barron was going to be.


I would fire dominik before schiano. Schiano inherited the team dominik built. If anything we could be in the hunt for a new gm. But no way is schiano getting the boot. Not after one year. Not his fault the guys dominik brought in dont perform.
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He Hate Me


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not even worth a discussion IMO.

Chill.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark isn't going anywhere either IMO.

I think he has done a great job. Have all the picks panned out... no but what gm hits on every pick? The guys all have a ton of potential. I know potential doesn't mean squat with no production but I have zero problem with Freeman, McCoy, Bowers, Price, Clayborn, Barron, Martin or David.

He has made some solid trades also. Winslow, moving Adams, moving Talib, moving up last draft for Martin.

A few monster fa signings in Nicks and Jackson and I expect at least one more this year. Some terrible signings in Ward, Clayton and Wright. None of those crippled us or gave us no out ie. Sanchez.

I have zero problem with Mark and think over the last three/four seasons he has been one of the better gms in the league. Greg and Mark paired I think can do some real damage together.
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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether Schiano deserves to be on the "hot seat" is almost irrelevant because after signing a 5 years contract, there is almost a 0% chance the Glazers will fire him and be on the hook for another 4 years.

I'm looking forward to see what changes he makes to his coaching staff, now that he will be able to fill out his staff in the same timeframe as the rest of the coaches.

Not to mention, more personnel changes will be made. In year two, if the same slide happens, then "yes" I would assume he would only get a third year like Rah for playoffs or lose his job.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
Mark isn't going anywhere either IMO.

I think he has done a great job. Have all the picks panned out... no but what gm hits on every pick? The guys all have a ton of potential. I know potential doesn't mean squat with no production but I have zero problem with Freeman, McCoy, Bowers, Price, Clayborn, Barron, Martin or David.

He has made some solid trades also. Winslow, moving Adams, moving Talib, moving up last draft for Martin.

A few monster fa signings in Nicks and Jackson and I expect at least one more this year. Some terrible signings in Ward, Clayton and Wright. None of those crippled us or gave us no out ie. Sanchez.

I have zero problem with Mark and think over the last three/four seasons he has been one of the better gms in the league. Greg and Mark paired I think can do some real damage together.


Seriously? McCoy has been solid but 3 years in the league he doesn't look like te elite player he was drafted and paid to be.

Freeman? Huge question mark. Regressing in 4 years is not good.

Bowers and Clayborn will be under the microscope. Usually you give dlineman 3 years to make a solid evaluation. But missing big time on Price, Benn and Lewis is pretty bad.

I see the argument GMs don't hit every pick. But Dominick's picks have missed /more question marks than hits.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
Mark isn't going anywhere either IMO.

I think he has done a great job. Have all the picks panned out... no but what gm hits on every pick? The guys all have a ton of potential. I know potential doesn't mean squat with no production but I have zero problem with Freeman, McCoy, Bowers, Price, Clayborn, Barron, Martin or David.

He has made some solid trades also. Winslow, moving Adams, moving Talib, moving up last draft for Martin.

A few monster fa signings in Nicks and Jackson and I expect at least one more this year. Some terrible signings in Ward, Clayton and Wright. None of those crippled us or gave us no out ie. Sanchez.

I have zero problem with Mark and think over the last three/four seasons he has been one of the better gms in the league. Greg and Mark paired I think can do some real damage together.


Seriously? McCoy has been solid but 3 years in the league he doesn't look like te elite player he was drafted and paid to be.

Freeman? Huge question mark. Regressing in 4 years is not good.

Bowers and Clayborn will be under the microscope. Usually you give dlineman 3 years to make a solid evaluation. But missing big time on Price, Benn and Lewis is pretty bad.

I see the argument GMs don't hit every pick. But Dominick's picks have missed /more question marks than hits.


Look how good our rush defense was this season. Was the main difference McCoy? Also kind of hard to put up big sack numbers when both our projected starting ends were hurt majority of the season. 5 sacks so far, maybe with our ends all season he notches 2/3 more.

Freeman, yes he is hard to defend at this moment but when I say I have no problems with Marks picks over the last few seasons, at the time they seemed to be all bang on with a "top" player at that position as well as filling a need for us. All three qbs from that draft have had questions over the past 4 seasons. If Mark did miss on Freeman is it really the end of the world? We drafted him with the 17th overall pick. We didn't use a top 5 pick, we didn't give the house to move up to draft him, we haven't signed him to a huge contract. If next season he craps the bed again, trust me it sucks and sucks big time I think because of what most thought/think he could/can become more than what we lost or that Mark missed out on. Imagine being the Cards and drafting Matt a few seasons ago with a top ten pick, then a few seasons later trading DMC and a pick and $60M for another scrub. What about the Raiders, Russell then giving up picks for Palmer... Shocked Mark maybe "wasted" the 17th pick but I don't think he should hang if it doesn't pan out. I know I have read before that both Morris and Mark will be tied to Freeman but I don't see it that way.

Bowers was a projected number 1 overall pick, was injured so we snagged him with the 51st pick and you are mad at Mark for that? I would think considering the talent Bowers has that that was a pretty good risk/reward pick. When he has played he has shown flashes in the pass game and played solid against the run.

Clayborn, again maybe slipped some because of his arm problem but the guy is a bull and his arm looks like it has given him zero problem. I have no doubt Clayborn will be a 9-11 sack guy most seasons.

Price was a shock, back/back dts but it was a need and he produced in college so I have no problem with that pick.

Benn... I'll take Gronk instead Very Happy

Lewis was a 3rd rounder. Brandon Lafell, Jordan Shipley, Colt McCoy, Armanti Edwards, Taylor Price a few guys taken after Lewis. All of those guys were huge misses as well. Take a look at the third round from that year, a few good guys, the rest... scrubs. The same draft Mark snagged Mike Williams in the 4th so I would think with that move would cancel both Benn and Lewis and we could call it a draw.
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Soul Glo


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
Mark isn't going anywhere either IMO.

I think he has done a great job. Have all the picks panned out... no but what gm hits on every pick? The guys all have a ton of potential. I know potential doesn't mean squat with no production but I have zero problem with Freeman, McCoy, Bowers, Price, Clayborn, Barron, Martin or David.

He has made some solid trades also. Winslow, moving Adams, moving Talib, moving up last draft for Martin.

A few monster fa signings in Nicks and Jackson and I expect at least one more this year. Some terrible signings in Ward, Clayton and Wright. None of those crippled us or gave us no out ie. Sanchez.

I have zero problem with Mark and think over the last three/four seasons he has been one of the better gms in the league. Greg and Mark paired I think can do some real damage together.


Seriously? McCoy has been solid but 3 years in the league he doesn't look like te elite player he was drafted and paid to be.

Freeman? Huge question mark. Regressing in 4 years is not good.

Bowers and Clayborn will be under the microscope. Usually you give dlineman 3 years to make a solid evaluation. But missing big time on Price, Benn and Lewis is pretty bad.

I see the argument GMs don't hit every pick. But Dominick's picks have missed /more question marks than hits.

-McCoy is one of the best DTs in the league, with Clayborn and other forces around him he'd be putting up big numbers. Sadly he constantly faces ton of attention, but you can't deny his impact... stop with that nonsense.
-Free had a good sophomore year (where the system was dumbed down - just like it is for guys like RG3 and Wilson right now), the whole team fell down in his junior campaign and though he was no help by much means and inconsistent, there were far bigger problems. This year, hot n cold. Hottest QB in the league for a while, and then just bombed the month of December. Really needs to be a consistent player, but still deserves next year to prove if he is our guy. I am as frustrated how this season ended as all of you guys, but I know the things he can bring and I know he has always been raved as a hard worker. I've seen him show it, and I know he's the Franchises most accomplished QB at 24 with multiple HCs and OCs. Lets see how next season goes. QBs are a process. I've seen it Brees, Eli, Ben, Flacco, etc. QBs take development and time, I've seen it before. Lets see if it can pan out. I'm not going to make excuses for him, he needs to step up and be a consistent QB. But to be fair there is only really 6ish elite guys in the league. Free's are best option for next year, lets give him atleast two years with Schiano/Sullivan. I am just talking as a Buccaneer fans who's heavily waited and searched for a answer at QB and trying to speak from perspective when I've seen countless QBs at his age take time to be consistent and see a guy like Eli take a while to put it together in a similiar offense. He might pan out, he may not... but it'd be hasty to not give him next year to make a decision on him.
-This guy got David & Martin without losing picks.
-Clayborn looked impressive till injured, and lets see if Bowers can stay healthy and pay off.
-Got a second for Gaines Adams (RIP) and a 4th for Talib, the GM of the team that brought in Nicks and Jackson.
-Drafted Mike Williams in the 4th.

He's hit some and missed some, but guys like Benn/Price/etc weren't reaches, just never panned out. I like the way he approaches the draft and things in general, and works well with the HC. I do not think he's been perfect, but honestly I'm happy to have him around. It was not going to come together in one year, we're not as far off as our results lately have insisted. Schian & Dom are both good guys to lead this franchise, continuity is a very underrated thing in this league. Sometimes change is necessary , but it is not at that point yet.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soul glo ,

No doubt Dom did an excellent job this past offseason. Jackson nicks Clark David Martin all look like studs. Can't say te same for Barron other than hopefully he reaches what the bucs expected him to be when taking him top 10. Not gonna say bust after one year but lot of improvement needs to e made.

My problem is: clAyborn is still unknown and he's shown he's better as a run defender than pass rusher. Part of me still thinks he's better suited for 3-4. Bowers , yes was a low risk high reward.

Price/benn/Lewis were high draft picks expected to fill starting roles and be big contributors. They're not.

I'm not sure how good McCoy actually is. I wouldn't put him in the elite category. 4 of his sacks came against 2 of te worst olines in the nfl. He's been great in run defense. But we need him to get to the qb. Part of me thinks he needs a guy next to him and on te ends. Another part of me thinks he still needs to get stronger and add 10-15 pounds to his 290-295 frame.
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RoeKG


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Schiano should be on the hot seat, but I do think that with the state the franchise has been in, Dominik has to be in trouble. 4 years with 1 winning season and no playoffs is not good.

Freeman has to be on the hot seat, too. But not Schiano, not yet.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
I don't think Schiano should be on the hot seat, but I do think that with the state the franchise has been in, Dominik has to be in trouble. 4 years with 1 winning season and no playoffs is not good.

Freeman has to be on the hot seat, too. But not Schiano, not yet.


Finally some one who agrees.

I think the entire scouting department and frot office needs to be re-evaluated.
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CHOMP_CHOMP


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
I don't think Schiano should be on the hot seat, but I do think that with the state the franchise has been in, Dominik has to be in trouble. 4 years with 1 winning season and no playoffs is not good.

Freeman has to be on the hot seat, too. But not Schiano, not yet.


Finally some one who agrees.

I think the entire scouting department and frot office needs to be re-evaluated.


I honestly done understand your problems with our scouting department. I get Freeman hasnt turned out to be exactly what we were looking for. But for where we were in the draft, it was a very good pick. We havent spent a ton of money on him, and if he doesnt perform next year, we move on.

Gerald McCoy was hindered by injuries to begin his career but has really come on this year. He is a monster in the run game, and also creates a ton of disruption in the back field with his penetration. Sack totals can be misleading, and he hasnt gotten any help whatsoever.

Bowers and Clayborn have both shown flashes of being very good pass rushers and when everyone is back healthy, i think we will have a very good d-line.

I just think you, and Bucs fans in general need to calm down. We were never supposed to be even near this good this year. We are a very young team who is still in the rebuilding process with a new coach. I just think this discussion is ridiculous and all you fair weather fans need to get lost!
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
I don't think Schiano should be on the hot seat, but I do think that with the state the franchise has been in, Dominik has to be in trouble. 4 years with 1 winning season and no playoffs is not good.

Freeman has to be on the hot seat, too. But not Schiano, not yet.


Finally some one who agrees.

I think the entire scouting department and frot office needs to be re-evaluated.


I honestly done understand your problems with our scouting department. I get Freeman hasnt turned out to be exactly what we were looking for. But for where we were in the draft, it was a very good pick. We havent spent a ton of money on him, and if he doesnt perform next year, we move on.

Gerald McCoy was hindered by injuries to begin his career but has really come on this year. He is a monster in the run game, and also creates a ton of disruption in the back field with his penetration. Sack totals can be misleading, and he hasnt gotten any help whatsoever.

Bowers and Clayborn have both shown flashes of being very good pass rushers and when everyone is back healthy, i think we will have a very good d-line.

I just think you, and Bucs fans in general need to calm down. We were never supposed to be even near this good this year. We are a very young team who is still in the rebuilding process with a new coach. I just think this discussion is ridiculous and all you fair weather fans need to get lost!


I think there is a difference between beig a fair weather fan and realist. I have been die hard buc fan so no way would I never not watch this team regardless of how bad they are.

It's called taking the blinders off. Looking at the situation from an honest perspective. Dominik has been very in consistant. The guys schiano has weeded out has been dominik and Morris aquisituons and I'm sure more will follow. Benn and Lewis are next. Both expected to play big roles on this team and high draft picks. Like I said Clayborn is still a question mark. Bowers was a gamble but low risk in rd 2 with a high reward.

Also he really missed on signings. Giving large contracts to Derek ward , Michael Clayton , and eric wright. Signing a punter to 3.26 mill a year? Really?

It's the whole body of work. McCoy has been good but to say he's playing up to his top 3 status is a question mark as well

I'm not saying he'll be fired but his seat should be getting hot.
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BuczNGator5


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
I don't think Schiano should be on the hot seat, but I do think that with the state the franchise has been in, Dominik has to be in trouble. 4 years with 1 winning season and no playoffs is not good.

Freeman has to be on the hot seat, too. But not Schiano, not yet.


Finally some one who agrees.

I think the entire scouting department and frot office needs to be re-evaluated.


I honestly done understand your problems with our scouting department. I get Freeman hasnt turned out to be exactly what we were looking for. But for where we were in the draft, it was a very good pick. We havent spent a ton of money on him, and if he doesnt perform next year, we move on.

Gerald McCoy was hindered by injuries to begin his career but has really come on this year. He is a monster in the run game, and also creates a ton of disruption in the back field with his penetration. Sack totals can be misleading, and he hasnt gotten any help whatsoever.

Bowers and Clayborn have both shown flashes of being very good pass rushers and when everyone is back healthy, i think we will have a very good d-line.

I just think you, and Bucs fans in general need to calm down. We were never supposed to be even near this good this year. We are a very young team who is still in the rebuilding process with a new coach. I just think this discussion is ridiculous and all you fair weather fans need to get lost!
We are good this year? I didn't know a 6 win season was considered a good year. Rolling Eyes
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RoeKG


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
I don't think Schiano should be on the hot seat, but I do think that with the state the franchise has been in, Dominik has to be in trouble. 4 years with 1 winning season and no playoffs is not good.

Freeman has to be on the hot seat, too. But not Schiano, not yet.


Finally some one who agrees.

I think the entire scouting department and frot office needs to be re-evaluated.


I honestly done understand your problems with our scouting department. I get Freeman hasnt turned out to be exactly what we were looking for. But for where we were in the draft, it was a very good pick. We havent spent a ton of money on him, and if he doesnt perform next year, we move on.

Gerald McCoy was hindered by injuries to begin his career but has really come on this year. He is a monster in the run game, and also creates a ton of disruption in the back field with his penetration. Sack totals can be misleading, and he hasnt gotten any help whatsoever.

Bowers and Clayborn have both shown flashes of being very good pass rushers and when everyone is back healthy, i think we will have a very good d-line.

I just think you, and Bucs fans in general need to calm down. We were never supposed to be even near this good this year. We are a very young team who is still in the rebuilding process with a new coach. I just think this discussion is ridiculous and all you fair weather fans need to get lost!


I'm not saying Dominik should be in trouble from some sort of manic state or anything. It's a pretty general statement. Dom's drafts aren't all about the 1st rounders. In 4 years, I would say he has really only nailed about 3 picks: Martin, David, and Mike Williams. He did well in Free Agency, but McCoy was such an obvious pick it shouldn't even be credited to him. Clayborn and Bowers could be good, but we're not sure yet. Regardless, in 4 drafts he hasn't produced a ton of great talent and taking Freeman (who Morris may have had a lot to do with) may have set back this team by a lot.

Look at the young stars that the Steelers or Packers have produced in the same span of time, and look at who we have. It just doesn't compare. Like I said way back before the draft, Dom does pretty well in rounds 1, 2 and 7. All else is pretty bad, and last year's draft was the same way. The lack of talent produced in those middle rounds is a good portion of what is holding this team back.

I don't dislike Dom, we sure could be doing worse (Allen...shudder...), but it's not like he has been killing it. At the end of the day the team isn't winning and seats aren't selling, so being supportive of him seems like a losing battle.
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scottonatable


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He needs to stay one year is not long enough to make a call on a coach, i like what he stands for. the GM on the other hand i can see why people are calling for his head.
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