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Trade Ware in offseason?
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boog3083


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Belicheck has done this for years trade Seymore, or cut Lawer Milloy, Ty Law and others maroney also. He got rid of fan favorites and team favorites. What did that do to the franchise??? Nothing but put them in Super Bowls and playoffs everyyear. Come on guys I know it will never happen but this is really the best approach to building a contender. The only person left on the Pats dynasties are Tom. Got rid of fan favorites. Do you guys want possible super bowls or Ware here till he retires??
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boog3083 wrote:
Bill Belicheck has done this for years trade Seymore, or cut Lawer Milloy, Ty Law and others maroney also. He got rid of fan favorites and team favorites. What did that do to the franchise??? Nothing but put them in Super Bowls and playoffs everyyear. Come on guys I know it will never happen but this is really the best approach to building a contender. The only person left on the Pats dynasties are Tom. Got rid of fan favorites. Do you guys want possible super bowls or Ware here till he retires??


By the reaction of 95% of the posts here... many Cowboys fans do not share BB's win at all costs mentality.
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DaBoys


Joined: 18 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
Bill Belicheck has done this for years trade Seymore, or cut Lawer Milloy, Ty Law and others maroney also. He got rid of fan favorites and team favorites. What did that do to the franchise??? Nothing but put them in Super Bowls and playoffs everyyear. Come on guys I know it will never happen but this is really the best approach to building a contender. The only person left on the Pats dynasties are Tom. Got rid of fan favorites. Do you guys want possible super bowls or Ware here till he retires??


By the reaction of 95% of the posts here... many Cowboys fans do not share BB's win at all costs mentality.



Slam..... Do you think the Cowboys should actively shop Ware? Lesbian honest...

I think 95% of the fans here would trade Ware for 3 first rounders plus a 2nd and 3rd this year. Dumping him for nothing is not healthy, though. We spent a 1st round pick on Ware the year I joined this forum, and we made out like bandits. I'm not ready to get just another mid round first for him and try my luck again, with a player that I hope will be half as good as he. I need incentive. What can I get?

EDIT: I mean, if we couldn't get it done with Ware then we need other players outside of Ware right? Was it Wares fault? No, of course not. So we will need to get rid of Ware and get some one to replace him that was equally good. We can't rightfully ask them to be better. If I were to agree with the OP then we could trade Ware and get Aldon smith to take his place. Then we could get an extra pick, because Ware has more career sacks. We could trade that extra pick and Jason Witten to get Vernon Davis, but because Witten has more tenure we would get and extra pick. Then we could trade that extra pick plus Tony Romo and get Peyton Manning. Then after acquiring Davis, Smith, and Manning, we could trade, Doug Free, DeMarco Murray, and our 2nd for Adrian Peterson. Then we could trade Jay Ratliff and our 3rd for the 1st overall pick in the draft! We would get Star Lotleluleihatever of course.

When all said and done. We would have Aldon Smith to replace Ware, Vernon Davis to replace Witten, Peyton Manning to replace Romo, Adrian Peterson to replace Murray, and Star to replace Rat! Don't worry, I just worked it all out on my Madden. It seems legit.
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Matts4313 wrote:
I agree with daboys, some of you might be insane.

The_Slamman wrote:
Daboys is right.

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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
Bill Belicheck has done this for years trade Seymore, or cut Lawer Milloy, Ty Law and others maroney also. He got rid of fan favorites and team favorites. What did that do to the franchise??? Nothing but put them in Super Bowls and playoffs everyyear. Come on guys I know it will never happen but this is really the best approach to building a contender. The only person left on the Pats dynasties are Tom. Got rid of fan favorites. Do you guys want possible super bowls or Ware here till he retires??


By the reaction of 95% of the posts here... many Cowboys fans do not share BB's win at all costs mentality.


The Patriots, much like the Steelers, do an excellent job of cutting ties with a washed up played before they become a detriment. The most obvious outlier was Seymore - and even still they were likely going to lose him so this was a nice parting gift for them.

Frankly, the Patriots have been doing to the league what we did to the Vikings - robbing people blind in trades.
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaBoys wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
Bill Belicheck has done this for years trade Seymore, or cut Lawer Milloy, Ty Law and others maroney also. He got rid of fan favorites and team favorites. What did that do to the franchise??? Nothing but put them in Super Bowls and playoffs everyyear. Come on guys I know it will never happen but this is really the best approach to building a contender. The only person left on the Pats dynasties are Tom. Got rid of fan favorites. Do you guys want possible super bowls or Ware here till he retires??


By the reaction of 95% of the posts here... many Cowboys fans do not share BB's win at all costs mentality.



Slam..... Do you think the Cowboys should actively shop Ware? Lesbian honest...

I think 95% of the fans here would trade Ware for 3 first rounders plus a 2nd and 3rd this year. Dumping him for nothing is not healthy, though. We spent a 1st round pick on Ware the year I joined this forum, and we made out like bandits. I'm not ready to get just another mid round first for him and try my luck again, with a player that I hope will be half as good as he. I need incentive. What can i get?


It seems to me that you are really saying that you don't trust the organization to draft and develop young talent. Therefore, you'd rather hang onto an aging all pros for 1-2 years. Realistically, I don't think the Jared Allen trade is out of the question... Maybe a little less.
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Dboys88-82


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is pointless even if some of you want it to happen, because its not going to happen. Ever. Even if theres a fire!
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
textaz03 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.


What? Who?

Suh, Nope.

C-Wake not even close.

Atkins, plays a different position and still no.

Clay Mathews, no and he can't stay healthy either.

Osi, makes you sound like you are just reaching for anything.

Tuck is injury prone and JPP has one or two pass rush moves and the book is out on them. Also are you saying the that the giants have 3 players on their line that are better than Ware??? A hall of Famer???

J.J. is very good and he may be very great.

Aldin Smith is very good, but he isn't as good a Ware when he is healthy.

I get it, the Cowboys should always have a back up plan. That should have been done with Felix, two years ago, and Martellus Bennett. Players that you know suck, are really aging, and are bad apples. D-Ware does not fit that mold at all.


But when do you have the balls to say enough with this core and let's move in a different direction ? I feel bad for the core guys. Jerry got a great core and then got comfortable and didn't add anything until recently. At some point you have to cut bait while they still have trade value.
as an owner, you also have to show some loyalty to those who have been loyal to you. You start trading or cutting core players, it shows no loyalty to your core. Use and abuse and move on is not a formula I would want my team to follow.

Quote:
I don't agree at all. The Pats let players go and they still remain competetive. Loyalty is overrated in sports. The players will leave in a nano second for more money.

Sure, I want to be competitive year in year out, but not by sacrificing core players and possibly setting my team back in the progress.

You don't sacrifice future Hall of Famers! You let them move on at their time

Quote:
Disagree. Joe Montana was traded. Peyton Manning was cut. Favre was allowed to walk. Do you think Jimmy Johnson cared about player feelings ? Tony Dorsett was traded by Landry. The core guys aren't above being traded or cut.


If you trade Ware, where does it stop at? you might as well trade away our entire core then if you want to move in a different direction, Witten and Romo included. But what does all those picks get you? There is only so much top talent in this draft. And how are you going to pay for all those picks? You would have to account for all the accelerated signing bonuses we would have to eat.


What's wrong with that idea ? If you aren't going to the superbowl what's wrong moving in a different direction ? This current core hasn't been close to the superbowl and now they are getting up there in age.


Guys, make no mistake about it... We don't have that much time left with the core. This is why Jerry talks about the window of opportunity closing. The question is whether the individual parts are greater than the sum of the whole. If the sum of the whole does not realistically give the Cowboys a chance to compete for a SB, then it only makes sense to explore the value of the individual parts while they still have value.

What we are seeing right now in the NFL is teams winning with rookie QBs if the trenches are solid. Seattle is taking cast off RBs, cast off WRs, and a rookie 3rd round pick and doing serious damage. But, they've got a great OL and the defense is on the verge of being something really special. And they are so young. My point is that it can be done. There can be a quick turn around with a young team if the team is built in the right way. Our team has it backwards. We've got great flash but no physicality in the trenches. If we traded away our aging vets while they still have value and use those picks to build the trenches... The team would be far more competitive moving forward.


Well spoke! Listen to the man.
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DaBoys


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
DaBoys wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
Bill Belicheck has done this for years trade Seymore, or cut Lawer Milloy, Ty Law and others maroney also. He got rid of fan favorites and team favorites. What did that do to the franchise??? Nothing but put them in Super Bowls and playoffs everyyear. Come on guys I know it will never happen but this is really the best approach to building a contender. The only person left on the Pats dynasties are Tom. Got rid of fan favorites. Do you guys want possible super bowls or Ware here till he retires??


By the reaction of 95% of the posts here... many Cowboys fans do not share BB's win at all costs mentality.



Slam..... Do you think the Cowboys should actively shop Ware? Lesbian honest...

I think 95% of the fans here would trade Ware for 3 first rounders plus a 2nd and 3rd this year. Dumping him for nothing is not healthy, though. We spent a 1st round pick on Ware the year I joined this forum, and we made out like bandits. I'm not ready to get just another mid round first for him and try my luck again, with a player that I hope will be half as good as he. I need incentive. What can i get?


It seems to me that you are really saying that you don't trust the organization to draft and develop young talent. Therefore, you'd rather hang onto an aging all pros for 1-2 years. Realistically, I don't think the Jared Allen trade is out of the question... Maybe a little less.


I don't trust any organization to develop a DeMarcus Ware. What I am saying is, if I were to trade him I would have to get more than I gave. I gave a mid first round. I'm not going to dump him for the same. I'm not going to dump him for the sake of dumping. What can I get? The Jared Allen trade you say?

Let me google that...

a 1st round, 2 3rds, and a trade of 6ths.

Well it better not be a little less. It better not be any less. I don't want to have to start a Ware vs. Allen thread in the comparisons forum to have to argue with less than intelligent fans about how Romo sucks again.

To trade Ware? I'll need my 1st that I spent, instead of two 3's, I'll need a 2nd and a 3rd, because Ware is more versatile than Jared Allen. He is a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 DE. Allen is strictly a 4-3 end. Ware commands more. Depending on who we trade with, I need that 6th round swap as well.

So if you can find me a team willing to trade their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and swap 6ths. Then yeah, Let's trade Ware.
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Matts4313 wrote:
I agree with daboys, some of you might be insane.

The_Slamman wrote:
Daboys is right.

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
BTW, DaBoys wins this thread.
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be WARE94


Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 2030
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
textaz03 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.


What? Who?

Suh, Nope.

C-Wake not even close.

Atkins, plays a different position and still no.

Clay Mathews, no and he can't stay healthy either.

Osi, makes you sound like you are just reaching for anything.

Tuck is injury prone and JPP has one or two pass rush moves and the book is out on them. Also are you saying the that the giants have 3 players on their line that are better than Ware??? A hall of Famer???

J.J. is very good and he may be very great.

Aldin Smith is very good, but he isn't as good a Ware when he is healthy.

I get it, the Cowboys should always have a back up plan. That should have been done with Felix, two years ago, and Martellus Bennett. Players that you know suck, are really aging, and are bad apples. D-Ware does not fit that mold at all.


But when do you have the balls to say enough with this core and let's move in a different direction ? I feel bad for the core guys. Jerry got a great core and then got comfortable and didn't add anything until recently. At some point you have to cut bait while they still have trade value.
as an owner, you also have to show some loyalty to those who have been loyal to you. You start trading or cutting core players, it shows no loyalty to your core. Use and abuse and move on is not a formula I would want my team to follow.

Quote:
I don't agree at all. The Pats let players go and they still remain competetive. Loyalty is overrated in sports. The players will leave in a nano second for more money.

Sure, I want to be competitive year in year out, but not by sacrificing core players and possibly setting my team back in the progress.

You don't sacrifice future Hall of Famers! You let them move on at their time

Quote:
Disagree. Joe Montana was traded. Peyton Manning was cut. Favre was allowed to walk. Do you think Jimmy Johnson cared about player feelings ? Tony Dorsett was traded by Landry. The core guys aren't above being traded or cut.


If you trade Ware, where does it stop at? you might as well trade away our entire core then if you want to move in a different direction, Witten and Romo included. But what does all those picks get you? There is only so much top talent in this draft. And how are you going to pay for all those picks? You would have to account for all the accelerated signing bonuses we would have to eat.


What's wrong with that idea ? If you aren't going to the superbowl what's wrong moving in a different direction ? This current core hasn't been close to the superbowl and now they are getting up there in age.


Guys, make no mistake about it... We don't have that much time left with the core. This is why Jerry talks about the window of opportunity closing. The question is whether the individual parts are greater than the sum of the whole. If the sum of the whole does not realistically give the Cowboys a chance to compete for a SB, then it only makes sense to explore the value of the individual parts while they still have value.

What we are seeing right now in the NFL is teams winning with rookie QBs if the trenches are solid. Seattle is taking cast off RBs, cast off WRs, and a rookie 3rd round pick and doing serious damage. But, they've got a great OL and the defense is on the verge of being something really special. And they are so young. My point is that it can be done. There can be a quick turn around with a young team if the team is built in the right way. Our team has it backwards. We've got great flash but no physicality in the trenches. If we traded away our aging vets while they still have value and use those picks to build the trenches... The team would be far more competitive moving forward.


Well spoke! Listen to the man.


remember we will need a new qb a new tight end a new elite pass rusher if you are talking about dumping rat ware and spencer we will need to rebuild our entire defensive front......we still need safeties......if we get rid of miles and witten.....or even just one or the other(i'd prefer miles) then we definitely will need to replace at least one of them with someone good as teams will lock in on dez.....this is assuming we get a competent qb to replace romo that can actually get dez the ball(remember these guys are getting a chemistry going and it could set dez back not to mention physically tony is in as good a shape a 32 year old qb has ever been outside of some all time greats) if we keep romo and get rid of witt we take away his security blanket and ask him to build chemistry with either hanna or phillips.....getting rid of our vets is a bad idea imo.....i'm all for getting rid of dead weight like miles and rat however.....we can still build in the trenches with the pieces we have....then in 2 years we start drafting players to replace them.....
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cowboyfanin2890


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will say this, teams are built through the trenches, but first always is a franchise QB, LT, or dominant pass rusher. We have all 3 of these but not a dominant trench on either side of the ball. If we trade Ware then we have to look for a dominant pass rusher to take over for him. A dominant trench on either side of the ball will not substitute for a pass rush. We should have around 3-4 more years of quality football out of Romo, Witten and Ware, I will take my chances with their declining abilities over the inability of our non-existent GM to get us an o-line and another dominant pass rusher. firestorm to ensue, but we can right the trenches quicker than finding a pass rusher with 75% of the production that Ware has.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
I've always said that I would trust people on this board (except the extreme homers) to GM the Cowboys instead of Jerry Jones. I officially have more faith in Jerry Jones at this point. The OP is looking at the Cowboys as a business and Ware as a commodity that has value. All you guys see is a player you like. The OP is not weird or delusional. He's actually asking a critical question that the Cowboys NEED to ask themselves in the very near future.

To the OP, my response is that it "depends." IMO, if you trade Ware, you cannot stop at Ware. I think you have to trade Witten, Romo, and Spencer at that point. If you're going to rebuild, then rebuild in full.

If we could get a deal similar to what KC got for Jared Allen, Cincy got for Carson Palmer and KC got for Tony Gonzales... we'd have to strongly consider it.

I actually think Sunday's game and immediate aftermath goes a long way to deciding what we should do. We see teams like the Redskins, Seahawks, and 49ers rising fast. Those teams look very strong now and for several years to come. If we are overmatched against them right now, then I don't see next year or the year after being any better. I would say that we'd have to rebuild to compete against them at that level. I would rather build a young strong team that can complete for years to come than hold on to a fading glimmer of hope of aging players. The fastest way to rebuild is to trade those players while they still have value.


Actually having starters like Lee and Carter playing would make a difference. Also, Ware's been injured and is still playing. It's not like he's Bob Sanders. Of course you should evaluate all your players, and any legitimate offers, but I think it would take 2 -1sts, and I don't think any team is giving those up in the new rookie cap era for anything other than a qb.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am open to listening to any offer for any player including Ware if it is going to improve the franchise.

With respect to Ware he has been playing hurt for most of the year and still has decent stats. The notion that his replacement may be on the roster already is ludicrous. I don't think Ware is past his prime.
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waremd


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP you do realize Ware has a dislocated elbow, bruised shoulder, a hamstring, and a sternum injury? All that and he is playing this weekend, that in itself is an absolute miracle.

Ware does more then pass rush, he is incredible at setting the edge versus the rush, he is great a dropping to the flat to catch that RB on a screen, he is great at reading a QBs eyes to know when to press and where to press. He does so many more things for this defense, not to mention teams committing double and triple teams to stop him.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ware isn't the type of player Belichick would trade. There is a big difference between him and guys like Seymour, Milloy, etc.

The latter were good players who, while considered tops at their positions at different points in their careers, were never considered Hall of Fame type players.

Ware is highly regarded as one of the best pass rushers to ever play the game. He has been mentioned with the likes of Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, etc. You don't trade those types of players. He has struggled with injuries this year, but yet still remains on the field. He is a team leader and will be a key component in the team having success going forward.

Now, if someone said we should trade Ratliff, a player in that "good but not great" mold, I'd be all for it. Same with Austin. Same with Spencer.
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference is Belichick's ability to find basically anyone, plug 'em in and suddenly they're a competent role player if not a Pro Bowler. While we've seen evidence of Dallas being able to make due with guys off the street, does anyone really believe they can come close to replacing what Ware does for this team?

As far as "if you dump Ware, don't stop there. Dump Romo, Witten, etc."... I don't know. You don't really see that kind of thing in the NFL. For example, people thought Indy would have that kind of house cleaning after dumping Manning, but they kept Wayne, Freeney, and Mathis, and suddenly they're a wild card team. Too much parity, too easy for any shmuck team to make the playoffs.

I do think we could see some serious changes in the 2014 offseason, regardless of how this year ends or next one goes. The team is supposedly well over the cap with Romo not even under contract, nevermind the other deals they make this coming spring or the potentially-expensive young guys they have to extend (Bryant, Lee, Smith, Carter, Murray).
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