Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Trade Ware in offseason?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Dallas Cowboys
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
boog3083


Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Elkhart, Ks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WizardHawk


Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 9720
Location: Hawkeye State
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting into the stats/sabremetrics is all well and good, but my opinion doesn't change. Ware is the best defender on this team, hands down, and when healthy is still arguably in the top 5 of NFL.

That said, should it be completely written off getting the value for him while it's still high in a trade, no. I would expect Ware to fetch something close to what Jared Allen returned to KC...1st rder, two 3rds and late rd pick.
_________________

Kiltman on avy n' sig
George Selvie Fan Club
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
pierrepet


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 5841
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 first rounders and I would trade him. I dont think the OP's premise is that ridiculous if you ask me. But it would take a ton of high picks to make it worthwhile, seeing as how at least one of those picks would have to be used to find his replacement.
_________________
Gmenseattle: "Yes Eli is the reason our season is going down the tubes."

Ironm1ke: "I am a huge Eli supporter, but his 2012 campaign was an epic turd."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
THE BIG CHEEZE


Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boog3083 wrote:
We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.


What? Who?

Suh, Nope.

C-Wake not even close.

Atkins, plays a different position and still no.

Clay Mathews, no and he can't stay healthy either.

Osi, makes you sound like you are just reaching for anything.

Tuck is injury prone and JPP has one or two pass rush moves and the book is out on them. Also are you saying the that the giants have 3 players on their line that are better than Ware??? A hall of Famer???

J.J. is very good and he may be very great.

Aldin Smith is very good, but he isn't as good a Ware when he is healthy.

I get it, the Cowboys should always have a back up plan. That should have been done with Felix, two years ago, and Martellus Bennett. Players that you know suck, are really aging, and are bad apples. D-Ware does not fit that mold at all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Football Mensa


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.


What? Who?

Suh, Nope.

C-Wake not even close.

Atkins, plays a different position and still no.

Clay Mathews, no and he can't stay healthy either.

Osi, makes you sound like you are just reaching for anything.

Tuck is injury prone and JPP has one or two pass rush moves and the book is out on them. Also are you saying the that the giants have 3 players on their line that are better than Ware??? A hall of Famer???

J.J. is very good and he may be very great.

Aldin Smith is very good, but he isn't as good a Ware when he is healthy.

I get it, the Cowboys should always have a back up plan. That should have been done with Felix, two years ago, and Martellus Bennett. Players that you know suck, are really aging, and are bad apples. D-Ware does not fit that mold at all.


But when do you have the balls to say enough with this core and let's move in a different direction ? I feel bad for the core guys. Jerry got a great core and then got comfortable and didn't add anything until recently. At some point you have to cut bait while they still have trade value.
_________________
A circle. The direction the Cowboys continue to travel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
textaz03


Moderator
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 11201
Location: Land of the Jersey Devil!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.


What? Who?

Suh, Nope.

C-Wake not even close.

Atkins, plays a different position and still no.

Clay Mathews, no and he can't stay healthy either.

Osi, makes you sound like you are just reaching for anything.

Tuck is injury prone and JPP has one or two pass rush moves and the book is out on them. Also are you saying the that the giants have 3 players on their line that are better than Ware??? A hall of Famer???

J.J. is very good and he may be very great.

Aldin Smith is very good, but he isn't as good a Ware when he is healthy.

I get it, the Cowboys should always have a back up plan. That should have been done with Felix, two years ago, and Martellus Bennett. Players that you know suck, are really aging, and are bad apples. D-Ware does not fit that mold at all.


But when do you have the balls to say enough with this core and let's move in a different direction ? I feel bad for the core guys. Jerry got a great core and then got comfortable and didn't add anything until recently. At some point you have to cut bait while they still have trade value.
as an owner, you also have to show some loyalty to those who have been loyal to you. You start trading or cutting core players, it shows no loyalty to your core. Use and abuse and move on is not a formula I would want my team to follow.

Sure, I want to be competitive year in year out, but not by sacrificing core players and possibly setting my team back in the progress.

You don't sacrifice future Hall of Famers! You let them move on at their time

If you trade Ware, where does it stop at? you might as well trade away our entire core then if you want to move in a different direction, Witten and Romo included. But what does all those picks get you? There is only so much top talent in this draft. And how are you going to pay for all those picks? You would have to account for all the accelerated signing bonuses we would have to eat.
_________________




"Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyways" - John Wayne
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Hiero


Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 7964
Location: Midtown Sacramento
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ware is a guy were gonna have to hold onto forever he has a good 6 years left and is too rare of a talent to replace
_________________

Props to IDOG_det on the sig.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 2908
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.


What? Who?

Suh, Nope.

C-Wake not even close.

Atkins, plays a different position and still no.

Clay Mathews, no and he can't stay healthy either.

Osi, makes you sound like you are just reaching for anything.

Tuck is injury prone and JPP has one or two pass rush moves and the book is out on them. Also are you saying the that the giants have 3 players on their line that are better than Ware??? A hall of Famer???

J.J. is very good and he may be very great.

Aldin Smith is very good, but he isn't as good a Ware when he is healthy.

I get it, the Cowboys should always have a back up plan. That should have been done with Felix, two years ago, and Martellus Bennett. Players that you know suck, are really aging, and are bad apples. D-Ware does not fit that mold at all.


But when do you have the balls to say enough with this core and let's move in a different direction ? I feel bad for the core guys. Jerry got a great core and then got comfortable and didn't add anything until recently. At some point you have to cut bait while they still have trade value.


Not to mention we have to reconstruct an O line. That will take about 2-3 years before they are solid. By then Lee, Carter, Claiborne, Carr, T Smith, Bryant, Murray, Albright, Hanna, and some of the hopefulls will be in their 4th to 7th years, aka prime. What do you think Ware, Witten, Romo, Spears, Ratliff, etc will have left in the tank by that time?

Point is, if we could get two 1st rounders or a 1st and 2nd + a decent player or a 1st and 2 thirds + a decent player, we could get an O line THIS season! We could also get D line help, a young QB, another young OLB, a S etc. They would only be 2-3 yeasr behind our young studs now. They would be 8-10 years behind guys like Ware, Witten and Romo.

Again, I would hang on to Romo and Witten as they are having banner years. Romo and Bryant also have chemistry.

Again, I am merely pointing out my opinion on this matter. I like Ware a lot and think he is one hell of a player. Top 3 at his position. But is it worth having a player like him, at his age at 1 position while we are suffering at other positions?

Not to mention, he has been missing significant time and the back up players Rob Ryan has plugged in have been doing a fairly decent job. 4 wins in 6 games.

Also, if that be the case then you have to think that our draft selections and FA's have really been hitting the mark. This means Red is doing one fine job of evaluating draft picks and signing the right kind of guys.

Think about what he could accomplish with a stocked bag of draft selections, especially 5 in the first 3 rounds.

But agian, it would take an act of God for Jones to consider this move. I'm just looking at the possibility and weighing the options.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dirk Gently


Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 6107
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um... Look Round you guys. If the defense was healthy and playing like it was at the begiinning of the year (when the offense was giving teams the ball in our territory 2-3 times a game) we'd be in tall cotton right now.

We are one good interior lineman, a backup RB, and a less drastically injured defense away from being top notch. And even at that we have a good chance to win the division as it stands.
_________________
first-pick mock draft
Mack, OLB; Sutton, DT; Bailey, FS; Abbrederis, WR; Bitonio, OT; Halapio, OG; Easley, DT; Jean-Baptiste, CB; Murray, QB; Brown, OLB; McKinnon, RB; Saunders, WR; Hornsey, P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Football Mensa


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

textaz03 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.


What? Who?

Suh, Nope.

C-Wake not even close.

Atkins, plays a different position and still no.

Clay Mathews, no and he can't stay healthy either.

Osi, makes you sound like you are just reaching for anything.

Tuck is injury prone and JPP has one or two pass rush moves and the book is out on them. Also are you saying the that the giants have 3 players on their line that are better than Ware??? A hall of Famer???

J.J. is very good and he may be very great.

Aldin Smith is very good, but he isn't as good a Ware when he is healthy.

I get it, the Cowboys should always have a back up plan. That should have been done with Felix, two years ago, and Martellus Bennett. Players that you know suck, are really aging, and are bad apples. D-Ware does not fit that mold at all.


But when do you have the balls to say enough with this core and let's move in a different direction ? I feel bad for the core guys. Jerry got a great core and then got comfortable and didn't add anything until recently. At some point you have to cut bait while they still have trade value.
as an owner, you also have to show some loyalty to those who have been loyal to you. You start trading or cutting core players, it shows no loyalty to your core. Use and abuse and move on is not a formula I would want my team to follow.

Quote:
I don't agree at all. The Pats let players go and they still remain competetive. Loyalty is overrated in sports. The players will leave in a nano second for more money.

Sure, I want to be competitive year in year out, but not by sacrificing core players and possibly setting my team back in the progress.

You don't sacrifice future Hall of Famers! You let them move on at their time

Quote:
Disagree. Joe Montana was traded. Peyton Manning was cut. Favre was allowed to walk. Do you think Jimmy Johnson cared about player feelings ? Tony Dorsett was traded by Landry. The core guys aren't above being traded or cut.


If you trade Ware, where does it stop at? you might as well trade away our entire core then if you want to move in a different direction, Witten and Romo included. But what does all those picks get you? There is only so much top talent in this draft. And how are you going to pay for all those picks? You would have to account for all the accelerated signing bonuses we would have to eat.


What's wrong with that idea ? If you aren't going to the superbowl what's wrong moving in a different direction ? This current core hasn't been close to the superbowl and now they are getting up there in age.
_________________
A circle. The direction the Cowboys continue to travel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
THE BIG CHEEZE


Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.


What? Who?

Suh, Nope.

C-Wake not even close.

Atkins, plays a different position and still no.

Clay Mathews, no and he can't stay healthy either.

Osi, makes you sound like you are just reaching for anything.

Tuck is injury prone and JPP has one or two pass rush moves and the book is out on them. Also are you saying the that the giants have 3 players on their line that are better than Ware??? A hall of Famer???

J.J. is very good and he may be very great.

Aldin Smith is very good, but he isn't as good a Ware when he is healthy.

I get it, the Cowboys should always have a back up plan. That should have been done with Felix, two years ago, and Martellus Bennett. Players that you know suck, are really aging, and are bad apples. D-Ware does not fit that mold at all.


But when do you have the balls to say enough with this core and let's move in a different direction ? I feel bad for the core guys. Jerry got a great core and then got comfortable and didn't add anything until recently. At some point you have to cut bait while they still have trade value.


Not to mention we have to reconstruct an O line. That will take about 2-3 years before they are solid. By then Lee, Carter, Claiborne, Carr, T Smith, Bryant, Murray, Albright, Hanna, and some of the hopefulls will be in their 4th to 7th years, aka prime. What do you think Ware, Witten, Romo, Spears, Ratliff, etc will have left in the tank by that time?

Point is, if we could get two 1st rounders or a 1st and 2nd + a decent player or a 1st and 2 thirds + a decent player, we could get an O line THIS season! We could also get D line help, a young QB, another young OLB, a S etc. They would only be 2-3 yeasr behind our young studs now. They would be 8-10 years behind guys like Ware, Witten and Romo.

Again, I would hang on to Romo and Witten as they are having banner years. Romo and Bryant also have chemistry.

Again, I am merely pointing out my opinion on this matter. I like Ware a lot and think he is one hell of a player. Top 3 at his position. But is it worth having a player like him, at his age at 1 position while we are suffering at other positions?

Not to mention, he has been missing significant time and the back up players Rob Ryan has plugged in have been doing a fairly decent job. 4 wins in 6 games.

Also, if that be the case then you have to think that our draft selections and FA's have really been hitting the mark. This means Red is doing one fine job of evaluating draft picks and signing the right kind of guys.

Think about what he could accomplish with a stocked bag of draft selections, especially 5 in the first 3 rounds.

But agian, it would take an act of God for Jones to consider this move. I'm just looking at the possibility and weighing the options.



This post makes no sense, sorry. Ware is respected by players, coaches, front office people, and media. When healthy he is the best player on the defensive side of the football in the NFL and a top 5 player overall. When healthy Witten is a top 5 tight end. When healthy Romo is a top ten quarterback. So that makes you want to gamble on something better??? You want to show your players that you don't care about anything they have ever done and show the fans we don't care about your favorite players??? You want hope rather than have??? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush ring a bell. I get your point, as we all are allowed to have one. The problem I have with your point is that it is a knee jerk reaction to a stellar career. The man has never missed a game! This is worse than the Dez Bryant talk earlier this season. How about we trade Tyron Smith because he is too tall, for dwight howard because antonio gates played basketball??? That's a joke and so is what you are proposing. The risk is too great, you have a player that can play right now. You have a quarterback, WR, RB, ILB's, and a left tackle. He is our pass rusher for the next five years. This talk about trading Ware and keeping Witten and Romo is foolish. You keep Witten and Ware, and maybe trade Romo. You never get rid of a player like Ware. As for the trade with K.C. with Jared Allen, how'd that work out for K.C???
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 2908
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.


What? Who?

Suh, Nope.

C-Wake not even close.

Atkins, plays a different position and still no.

Clay Mathews, no and he can't stay healthy either.

Osi, makes you sound like you are just reaching for anything.

Tuck is injury prone and JPP has one or two pass rush moves and the book is out on them. Also are you saying the that the giants have 3 players on their line that are better than Ware??? A hall of Famer???

J.J. is very good and he may be very great.

Aldin Smith is very good, but he isn't as good a Ware when he is healthy.

I get it, the Cowboys should always have a back up plan. That should have been done with Felix, two years ago, and Martellus Bennett. Players that you know suck, are really aging, and are bad apples. D-Ware does not fit that mold at all.


But when do you have the balls to say enough with this core and let's move in a different direction ? I feel bad for the core guys. Jerry got a great core and then got comfortable and didn't add anything until recently. At some point you have to cut bait while they still have trade value.


Not to mention we have to reconstruct an O line. That will take about 2-3 years before they are solid. By then Lee, Carter, Claiborne, Carr, T Smith, Bryant, Murray, Albright, Hanna, and some of the hopefulls will be in their 4th to 7th years, aka prime. What do you think Ware, Witten, Romo, Spears, Ratliff, etc will have left in the tank by that time?

Point is, if we could get two 1st rounders or a 1st and 2nd + a decent player or a 1st and 2 thirds + a decent player, we could get an O line THIS season! We could also get D line help, a young QB, another young OLB, a S etc. They would only be 2-3 yeasr behind our young studs now. They would be 8-10 years behind guys like Ware, Witten and Romo.

Again, I would hang on to Romo and Witten as they are having banner years. Romo and Bryant also have chemistry.

Again, I am merely pointing out my opinion on this matter. I like Ware a lot and think he is one hell of a player. Top 3 at his position. But is it worth having a player like him, at his age at 1 position while we are suffering at other positions?

Not to mention, he has been missing significant time and the back up players Rob Ryan has plugged in have been doing a fairly decent job. 4 wins in 6 games.

Also, if that be the case then you have to think that our draft selections and FA's have really been hitting the mark. This means Red is doing one fine job of evaluating draft picks and signing the right kind of guys.

Think about what he could accomplish with a stocked bag of draft selections, especially 5 in the first 3 rounds.

But agian, it would take an act of God for Jones to consider this move. I'm just looking at the possibility and weighing the options.



This post makes no sense, sorry. Ware is respected by players, coaches, front office people, and media. When healthy he is the best player on the defensive side of the football in the NFL and a top 5 player overall. When healthy Witten is a top 5 tight end. When healthy Romo is a top ten quarterback. So that makes you want to gamble on something better??? You want to show your players that you don't care about anything they have ever done and show the fans we don't care about your favorite players??? You want hope rather than have??? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush ring a bell. I get your point, as we all are allowed to have one. The problem I have with your point is that it is a knee jerk reaction to a stellar career. The man has never missed a game! This is worse than the Dez Bryant talk earlier this season. How about we trade Tyron Smith because he is too tall, for dwight howard because antonio gates played basketball??? That's a joke and so is what you are proposing. The risk is too great, you have a player that can play right now. You have a quarterback, WR, RB, ILB's, and a left tackle. He is our pass rusher for the next five years. This talk about trading Ware and keeping Witten and Romo is foolish. You keep Witten and Ware, and maybe trade Romo. You never get rid of a player like Ware. As for the trade with K.C. with Jared Allen, how'd that work out for K.C???



You have every right to disagree with my points. However, be careful with your opening statement about it making no sense. It makes you sound as if YOU are the one having a knee jerk reaction without fully understanding the post.

If you are correct that Ware is our premiere pass rusher for the next 5 years that would put him at 13 years in the league. That is along time. Let us suppose this year is an abbirition and his body will fully recover for next year. He may return to dominant form and combined with a healthy Carter and Lee and a decent secondary, could prove to be lethal.

On the other hand. His body MAY BE, and I emphasized MAY BE, showing signs of breaking down. 8 years in the league doing what he does takes a heavy toll. Ratliff's body clearly has shown signs of fatigue. Of course, he took on more hits playing NT than Ware, but they came in the league at the same time.

If you are not correct and Ware is beginning to break down, his trade value would only diminish over the next few years, much like Ratliff's has now. 3 years ago we could have easily got a 2nd or 3rd, possibly a 1st, for Ratliff. Look at him now. He can't get on the damn field anymore!

As for trading Romo, I would take a QB that has clearly put this team on his back for almost half of the season and led us to victory or at least gave us a chance to win over any defensive player we have, including Demarcus Ware. That was my point earlier about Ware, he is an awesome talent, but I have yet to see him, in any game this year, come in during the 4th quarter of a game down 2 scores or up 2 scores and either preserve a lead so our offense dosen't have to force some miracle come back OR create turnovers when we needed them to get our offense the ball back and lead us to victory.

Romo did this in at least 6 games this year. I cannot think of a time this year where Ware was the guy leading the charge for the big sack on a 3rd and long or a 4th and short and getting our defense off the field.

Again, do not misunderstand me, I love the guy. he is stand up on and off the field. He is a great player. i'm simply stating that if this team wanted to go younger and stockpile draft picks as to build for the next 5-7 years, trading Ware would garner the most draft picks for us.

And I do not think it would completely destroy the team. If it would then we better pray he never gets seriously injured or the other 52 guys on this team are fricked!

As for KC, they are having the majority of their problems in the FO and with their GM. If they had drafted more wisley and had a real HC, they might be a lot better. Getting picks is one thing, knowing how to use them to get the best players for a coaching staff and scheme is an entirely different story.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Football Mensa


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.


What? Who?

Suh, Nope.

C-Wake not even close.

Atkins, plays a different position and still no.

Clay Mathews, no and he can't stay healthy either.

Osi, makes you sound like you are just reaching for anything.

Tuck is injury prone and JPP has one or two pass rush moves and the book is out on them. Also are you saying the that the giants have 3 players on their line that are better than Ware??? A hall of Famer???

J.J. is very good and he may be very great.

Aldin Smith is very good, but he isn't as good a Ware when he is healthy.

I get it, the Cowboys should always have a back up plan. That should have been done with Felix, two years ago, and Martellus Bennett. Players that you know suck, are really aging, and are bad apples. D-Ware does not fit that mold at all.


But when do you have the balls to say enough with this core and let's move in a different direction ? I feel bad for the core guys. Jerry got a great core and then got comfortable and didn't add anything until recently. At some point you have to cut bait while they still have trade value.


Not to mention we have to reconstruct an O line. That will take about 2-3 years before they are solid. By then Lee, Carter, Claiborne, Carr, T Smith, Bryant, Murray, Albright, Hanna, and some of the hopefulls will be in their 4th to 7th years, aka prime. What do you think Ware, Witten, Romo, Spears, Ratliff, etc will have left in the tank by that time?

Point is, if we could get two 1st rounders or a 1st and 2nd + a decent player or a 1st and 2 thirds + a decent player, we could get an O line THIS season! We could also get D line help, a young QB, another young OLB, a S etc. They would only be 2-3 yeasr behind our young studs now. They would be 8-10 years behind guys like Ware, Witten and Romo.

Again, I would hang on to Romo and Witten as they are having banner years. Romo and Bryant also have chemistry.

Again, I am merely pointing out my opinion on this matter. I like Ware a lot and think he is one hell of a player. Top 3 at his position. But is it worth having a player like him, at his age at 1 position while we are suffering at other positions?

Not to mention, he has been missing significant time and the back up players Rob Ryan has plugged in have been doing a fairly decent job. 4 wins in 6 games.

Also, if that be the case then you have to think that our draft selections and FA's have really been hitting the mark. This means Red is doing one fine job of evaluating draft picks and signing the right kind of guys.

Think about what he could accomplish with a stocked bag of draft selections, especially 5 in the first 3 rounds.

But agian, it would take an act of God for Jones to consider this move. I'm just looking at the possibility and weighing the options.



This post makes no sense, sorry. Ware is respected by players, coaches, front office people, and media. When healthy he is the best player on the defensive side of the football in the NFL and a top 5 player overall. When healthy Witten is a top 5 tight end. When healthy Romo is a top ten quarterback. So that makes you want to gamble on something better??? You want to show your players that you don't care about anything they have ever done and show the fans we don't care about your favorite players??? You want hope rather than have??? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush ring a bell. I get your point, as we all are allowed to have one. The problem I have with your point is that it is a knee jerk reaction to a stellar career. The man has never missed a game! This is worse than the Dez Bryant talk earlier this season. How about we trade Tyron Smith because he is too tall, for dwight howard because antonio gates played basketball??? That's a joke and so is what you are proposing. The risk is too great, you have a player that can play right now. You have a quarterback, WR, RB, ILB's, and a left tackle. He is our pass rusher for the next five years. This talk about trading Ware and keeping Witten and Romo is foolish. You keep Witten and Ware, and maybe trade Romo. You never get rid of a player like Ware. As for the trade with K.C. with Jared Allen, how'd that work out for K.C???



You have every right to disagree with my points. However, be careful with your opening statement about it making no sense. It makes you sound as if YOU are the one having a knee jerk reaction without fully understanding the post.

If you are correct that Ware is our premiere pass rusher for the next 5 years that would put him at 13 years in the league. That is along time. Let us suppose this year is an abbirition and his body will fully recover for next year. He may return to dominant form and combined with a healthy Carter and Lee and a decent secondary, could prove to be lethal.

On the other hand. His body MAY BE, and I emphasized MAY BE, showing signs of breaking down. 8 years in the league doing what he does takes a heavy toll. Ratliff's body clearly has shown signs of fatigue. Of course, he took on more hits playing NT than Ware, but they came in the league at the same time.

If you are not correct and Ware is beginning to break down, his trade value would only diminish over the next few years, much like Ratliff's has now. 3 years ago we could have easily got a 2nd or 3rd, possibly a 1st, for Ratliff. Look at him now. He can't get on the damn field anymore!

As for trading Romo, I would take a QB that has clearly put this team on his back for almost half of the season and led us to victory or at least gave us a chance to win over any defensive player we have, including Demarcus Ware. That was my point earlier about Ware, he is an awesome talent, but I have yet to see him, in any game this year, come in during the 4th quarter of a game down 2 scores or up 2 scores and either preserve a lead so our offense dosen't have to force some miracle come back OR create turnovers when we needed them to get our offense the ball back and lead us to victory.

Romo did this in at least 6 games this year. I cannot think of a time this year where Ware was the guy leading the charge for the big sack on a 3rd and long or a 4th and short and getting our defense off the field.

Again, do not misunderstand me, I love the guy. he is stand up on and off the field. He is a great player. i'm simply stating that if this team wanted to go younger and stockpile draft picks as to build for the next 5-7 years, trading Ware would garner the most draft picks for us.

And I do not think it would completely destroy the team. If it would then we better pray he never gets seriously injured or the other 52 guys on this team are fricked!

As for KC, they are having the majority of their problems in the FO and with their GM. If they had drafted more wisley and had a real HC, they might be a lot better. Getting picks is one thing, knowing how to use them to get the best players for a coaching staff and scheme is an entirely different story.


Bold times a million...it's just business...never personal.
_________________
A circle. The direction the Cowboys continue to travel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
atran35


Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 2859
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problems giving up any player including ROMO for someone that can get us similar or potentially similar production. The question is this team a few players away from a playoff run or dead and done.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The_Slamman


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 13336
Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
textaz03 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
We all love and respect what Ware has done here in Dallas. But IMO if we really want to get to a dynasty type team trading Ware(whack won't happen) to get younger, stronger is the smart thing to do.I want the Boys to be contenders every year. I would rather have have a franchise Young qb and a younger, hungrier olb or defensive end than just watch the boys Key positions get old. Call me crazy but I think JPP, aldin Smith, Clat M, Jared A, C wake, Osi,tuck, Suh, Atkins, Watt, r as good if not better than Ware. I bet the Texans were saying the same thing about Mario Williams. Do you guys want a slim to none chance this and next couple or the next 10 if we get the right pieces. But even if miss on some draft picks we still have no chance the next couple.


What? Who?

Suh, Nope.

C-Wake not even close.

Atkins, plays a different position and still no.

Clay Mathews, no and he can't stay healthy either.

Osi, makes you sound like you are just reaching for anything.

Tuck is injury prone and JPP has one or two pass rush moves and the book is out on them. Also are you saying the that the giants have 3 players on their line that are better than Ware??? A hall of Famer???

J.J. is very good and he may be very great.

Aldin Smith is very good, but he isn't as good a Ware when he is healthy.

I get it, the Cowboys should always have a back up plan. That should have been done with Felix, two years ago, and Martellus Bennett. Players that you know suck, are really aging, and are bad apples. D-Ware does not fit that mold at all.


But when do you have the balls to say enough with this core and let's move in a different direction ? I feel bad for the core guys. Jerry got a great core and then got comfortable and didn't add anything until recently. At some point you have to cut bait while they still have trade value.
as an owner, you also have to show some loyalty to those who have been loyal to you. You start trading or cutting core players, it shows no loyalty to your core. Use and abuse and move on is not a formula I would want my team to follow.

Quote:
I don't agree at all. The Pats let players go and they still remain competetive. Loyalty is overrated in sports. The players will leave in a nano second for more money.

Sure, I want to be competitive year in year out, but not by sacrificing core players and possibly setting my team back in the progress.

You don't sacrifice future Hall of Famers! You let them move on at their time

Quote:
Disagree. Joe Montana was traded. Peyton Manning was cut. Favre was allowed to walk. Do you think Jimmy Johnson cared about player feelings ? Tony Dorsett was traded by Landry. The core guys aren't above being traded or cut.


If you trade Ware, where does it stop at? you might as well trade away our entire core then if you want to move in a different direction, Witten and Romo included. But what does all those picks get you? There is only so much top talent in this draft. And how are you going to pay for all those picks? You would have to account for all the accelerated signing bonuses we would have to eat.


What's wrong with that idea ? If you aren't going to the superbowl what's wrong moving in a different direction ? This current core hasn't been close to the superbowl and now they are getting up there in age.


Guys, make no mistake about it... We don't have that much time left with the core. This is why Jerry talks about the window of opportunity closing. The question is whether the individual parts are greater than the sum of the whole. If the sum of the whole does not realistically give the Cowboys a chance to compete for a SB, then it only makes sense to explore the value of the individual parts while they still have value.

What we are seeing right now in the NFL is teams winning with rookie QBs if the trenches are solid. Seattle is taking cast off RBs, cast off WRs, and a rookie 3rd round pick and doing serious damage. But, they've got a great OL and the defense is on the verge of being something really special. And they are so young. My point is that it can be done. There can be a quick turn around with a young team if the team is built in the right way. Our team has it backwards. We've got great flash but no physicality in the trenches. If we traded away our aging vets while they still have value and use those picks to build the trenches... The team would be far more competitive moving forward.
_________________
Northland wrote:
If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi.


Slam sig bet participants:

A62
Buddy
PincheJimmy
Dirk Gently
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Dallas Cowboys All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 3 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group