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Trade Ware in offseason?
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys. I gotta say I agree with the OP. Ware is a scrub. I think the most we get for him is a 6th. Trade him while we can. I just hope Butler doesn't demand that elite contract like I know he deserves.
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THE BIG CHEEZE


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:34 am    Post subject: Re: Trade Ware in offseason? Reply with quote

boog3083 wrote:
First of all I know it won't happen but I would Ware for the best round pick!! Look at what the Pats got for Seymore. I would trade him and resign Spencer. With our picks we got and the trade get the best offensive lineman and safeties. What do you guys think. I just don't think ware is elite anymore.


Are you kidding me??? He's been hurt all year and the best outside linebacker not name L.T. in NFL history. You can't be serious.
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Dboys88-82


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Re: Trade Ware in offseason? Reply with quote

THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
boog3083 wrote:
First of all I know it won't happen but I would Ware for the best round pick!! Look at what the Pats got for Seymore. I would trade him and resign Spencer. With our picks we got and the trade get the best offensive lineman and safeties. What do you guys think. I just don't think ware is elite anymore.


Are you kidding me??? He's been hurt all year and the best outside linebacker not name L.T. in NFL history. You can't be serious.



Your sarcasm detector is obviously malfunctioning.

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thisnamesucks


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

congratulations, you've just made me throw up in my mouth

he's not elite? 11.5 sacks is a "down" year for him, and he's not elite? lol ok

he's not top 15? name 15 better

he's still our best defensive player, and still top 5 defensive player in the league

you're a dim lightbulb
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atran35


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP is weird.
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emmittsmith22


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha everybody calm down. We all try to think of ways to improve our Cowboys and getting more draft picks is an obvious way to do that. I don't agree with boog, but he isn't dumb for throwing an idea out there.
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always said that I would trust people on this board (except the extreme homers) to GM the Cowboys instead of Jerry Jones. I officially have more faith in Jerry Jones at this point. The OP is looking at the Cowboys as a business and Ware as a commodity that has value. All you guys see is a player you like. The OP is not weird or delusional. He's actually asking a critical question that the Cowboys NEED to ask themselves in the very near future.

To the OP, my response is that it "depends." IMO, if you trade Ware, you cannot stop at Ware. I think you have to trade Witten, Romo, and Spencer at that point. If you're going to rebuild, then rebuild in full.

If we could get a deal similar to what KC got for Jared Allen, Cincy got for Carson Palmer and KC got for Tony Gonzales... we'd have to strongly consider it.

I actually think Sunday's game and immediate aftermath goes a long way to deciding what we should do. We see teams like the Redskins, Seahawks, and 49ers rising fast. Those teams look very strong now and for several years to come. If we are overmatched against them right now, then I don't see next year or the year after being any better. I would say that we'd have to rebuild to compete against them at that level.

I would rather build a young strong team that can complete for years to come than hold on to a fading glimmer of hope of aging players. The fastest way to rebuild is to trade those players while they still have value.
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canadaluvsdalla


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

canadaluvsdalla wrote:
You know as crazy and ideas have gone. This one isn't too shabby.

Yeah you can blame the injuries. But with the new breed of pass-rushers coming into the league It would be nice for us to grab a spot in the top of the draft and grab one of them.

But for this to be even a thought I would have to give 1 more season to Ware. He just never took that step to be a defensive MVP caliber we wished him to be.



I need to work on my scarcasm more
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Football Mensa


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
I've always said that I would trust people on this board (except the extreme homers) to GM the Cowboys instead of Jerry Jones. I officially have more faith in Jerry Jones at this point. The OP is looking at the Cowboys as a business and Ware as a commodity that has value. All you guys see is a player you like. The OP is not weird or delusional. He's actually asking a critical question that the Cowboys NEED to ask themselves in the very near future.

To the OP, my response is that it "depends." IMO, if you trade Ware, you cannot stop at Ware. I think you have to trade Witten, Romo, and Spencer at that point. If you're going to rebuild, then rebuild in full.

Agree 100%. The current core of players has accomplished very little in the wins department. They all have pretty stats yet no true playoff success.

If we could get a deal similar to what KC got for Jared Allen, Cincy got for Carson Palmer and KC got for Tony Gonzales... we'd have to strongly consider it.

I actually think Sunday's game and immediate aftermath goes a long way to deciding what we should do. We see teams like the Redskins, Seahawks, and 49ers rising fast. Those teams look very strong now and for several years to come. If we are overmatched against them right now, then I don't see next year or the year after being any better. I would say that we'd have to rebuild to compete against them at that level.

Two of those teams have rookie qb's as well as the Colts. The Hawks are the second youngest team in the nfl. Right now only RG3 is not in for sure but on the cusp. Slam I agree Sunday's results should go a long ways in determining which direction the Cowboys should go.

I would rather build a young strong team that can complete for years to come than hold on to a fading glimmer of hope of aging players. The fastest way to rebuild is to trade those players while they still have value.


That has been Jerry's m.o. I think Jerry is scared to go in a new direction. He needs to let go. He gets to warm and fuzzy over his players. Yet we fans can see the problems that exist on this team and Jerry can't. SMH....
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Tony7188


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, a relatively new guy posts a topic that's a little different and look what happens smh putting fanship aside and looking at this from a business standpoint, I could see how OP wants to get younger and if we had a chance at a blue chip rush LB (Jarvis Jones/Demontre Moore) I could see the team listening to offers then trading Ware a couple years later.

But since we don't have a chance at guys like that and the team resigning Romo next year, we need to keep him.
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Cowboys31


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always entertained the idea since we haven't won anything yet, and it would be nice to see Ware win a big one before its all done for him. He is a RKG type guy with hall of fame credentials. Will the Cowboys prevent him from winning? Maybe.. But if you do trade Ware, you might as well trade Romo as well IMO.
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cowboys31 wrote:
I've always entertained the idea since we haven't won anything yet, and it would be nice to see Ware win a big one before its all done for him. He is a RKG type guy with hall of fame credentials. Will the Cowboys prevent him from winning? Maybe.. But if you do trade Ware, you might as well trade Romo as well IMO.



You know, I have posted something about this topic months ago. I agree with you to a point. If we were to trade soemone like Ware, first of all we would have to get at least 1st and 2nd round picks PLUS a servicalble player. And if we did go to that extreme, we should also trade Ratliff and Jenkins. If we could nab even a 5th for Rat and a3rd for Jenkins our upcoming draft would look something like this:

1st round= 2 picks
2nd round= 2picks
3rd round= 2picks
4th round= 1 pick
5th round= 2 picks
6th round= 1 pick

Thats 6 players in the first 3 rounds! AND, it would greatly benefit our youth infusion.

I wouldn't consider trading Romo or Witten at this point because both are having career years. They are servicable for another year ot two. And with the extra picks we can draft a QB for grooming, one Zac Dysert SPRINGS to mind. Hanna looks like a good TE prospect for the future.

If our servicable player in the trade is an Olineman, that would be 1 less thing to worry about.

We could get 2 O lineman (RT, G) D line (NT, DE) (OLB, QB) with the first 3 rounds alone, not in any particular order. Then we can look at S, RB, CB, and BPA with the remaining 4 picks.

That could be mighty enticing right about now. And before people go thinking we couldn't get a 1st and 2nd AND a servicable player for a guy like Ware, just look at what Philly got for Kolb (2nd, 4th and a starting CB) who isn't even their starting QB!

Now, reasons to NOT trade Ware. He is having a down year. Of course he has been injured all season. He is, without question one of the top defenders in the league. I would say top 3 at his position, top 10 among defenders over all. They would be big shoes to fill.

Offensive teams do scheme to try to take him out of the play or run the play away from his side. No one EVER designs a play to go AT Ware, thats for sure. He is a difference maker.

But there is one thing that always bothered me about Ware. He was never able to put this defense on his back and impose their will on an offense. He will get you 2 or 3 sacks in a game and make some nice hits. But it seems like whenever we were in a position to win a big game and needed a big defensive stop, I rarely hear his name mentioned.
You know you always hear the commentators say something like "__________, who else?" after the player makes a critical defensive play to stop a team on an important 3rd down to give our team the ball back. I don't see him as that type of player.

So, it comes down to this:

1. Do you find the idea of the extra draft picks, the servicable player and the fact that it immedieatley makes our team younger and stronger as a team enticing enough to pull the trigger on this one?

OR

2. Do you see Ware coming back next year along with Butler, Lee, Jenkins, Church, possibly Ratliff, hopefully a young stud NT, Claiborne in his 2nd year and guys like Crawford, Wilber, Lissemore and M. Johnson stepping up and making this defense a powerhouse led by none other than DeMarcus Ware?
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textaz03


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
Cowboys31 wrote:
I've always entertained the idea since we haven't won anything yet, and it would be nice to see Ware win a big one before its all done for him. He is a RKG type guy with hall of fame credentials. Will the Cowboys prevent him from winning? Maybe.. But if you do trade Ware, you might as well trade Romo as well IMO.



You know, I have posted something about this topic months ago. I agree with you to a point. If we were to trade soemone like Ware, first of all we would have to get at least 1st and 2nd round picks PLUS a servicalble player. And if we did go to that extreme, we should also trade Ratliff and Jenkins. If we could nab even a 5th for Rat and a3rd for Jenkins our upcoming draft would look something like this:

1st round= 2 picks
2nd round= 2picks
3rd round= 2picks
4th round= 1 pick
5th round= 2 picks
6th round= 1 pick

Thats 6 players in the first 3 rounds! AND, it would greatly benefit our youth infusion.

I wouldn't consider trading Romo or Witten at this point because both are having career years. They are servicable for another year ot two. And with the extra picks we can draft a QB for grooming, one Zac Dysert SPRINGS to mind. Hanna looks like a good TE prospect for the future.

If our servicable player in the trade is an Olineman, that would be 1 less thing to worry about.

We could get 2 O lineman (RT, G) D line (NT, DE) (OLB, QB) with the first 3 rounds alone, not in any particular order. Then we can look at S, RB, CB, and BPA with the remaining 4 picks.

That could be mighty enticing right about now. And before people go thinking we couldn't get a 1st and 2nd AND a servicable player for a guy like Ware, just look at what Philly got for Kolb (2nd, 4th and a starting CB) who isn't even their starting QB!

Now, reasons to NOT trade Ware. He is having a down year. Of course he has been injured all season. He is, without question one of the top defenders in the league. I would say top 3 at his position, top 10 among defenders over all. They would be big shoes to fill.

Offensive teams do scheme to try to take him out of the play or run the play away from his side. No one EVER designs a play to go AT Ware, thats for sure. He is a difference maker.

But there is one thing that always bothered me about Ware. He was never able to put this defense on his back and impose their will on an offense. He will get you 2 or 3 sacks in a game and make some nice hits. But it seems like whenever we were in a position to win a big game and needed a big defensive stop, I rarely hear his name mentioned.
You know you always hear the commentators say something like "__________, who else?" after the player makes a critical defensive play to stop a team on an important 3rd down to give our team the ball back. I don't see him as that type of player.

So, it comes down to this:

1. Do you find the idea of the extra draft picks, the servicable player and the fact that it immedieatley makes our team younger and stronger as a team enticing enough to pull the trigger on this one?

OR

2. Do you see Ware coming back next year along with Butler, Lee, Jenkins, Church, possibly Ratliff, hopefully a young stud NT, Claiborne in his 2nd year and guys like Crawford, Wilber, Lissemore and M. Johnson stepping up and making this defense a powerhouse led by none other than DeMarcus Ware?
first things first, Jenkins is a Free Agent at the end of the season, he can't be traded, so forget gettin a 3rd for him.

Second, your thoughts on Ware not making that critical play or not carring this defense on your back is in my opinion not warranted. He has made plenty of plays in critical times. For one, he is just about the only player on this defense who is schemed against by opposing teams. The lack of any pass rush from our Dline and the other OLB spot left Ware on an island against double and triple team protection, and yet, nobody else would step up and help the pass rush. And the next thing, name another player on this defense who has made more plays over the last few years than Ware?

Finally, who will replace him in the lineup? Butler?? Please!! What a joke of a player who is also a free agent this offseason and should not be re-signed! An unknown rookie?? Ok let's take that risk and hope it pans out, if not, you just set your defense back a few years. A Free Agent? Who is out there that could produce 3/4 of what Ware does?? 3/4 you ask? That's because there is no FA who can do 100% of what Ware can do.
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

textaz03 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Cowboys31 wrote:
I've always entertained the idea since we haven't won anything yet, and it would be nice to see Ware win a big one before its all done for him. He is a RKG type guy with hall of fame credentials. Will the Cowboys prevent him from winning? Maybe.. But if you do trade Ware, you might as well trade Romo as well IMO.



You know, I have posted something about this topic months ago. I agree with you to a point. If we were to trade soemone like Ware, first of all we would have to get at least 1st and 2nd round picks PLUS a servicalble player. And if we did go to that extreme, we should also trade Ratliff and Jenkins. If we could nab even a 5th for Rat and a3rd for Jenkins our upcoming draft would look something like this:

1st round= 2 picks
2nd round= 2picks
3rd round= 2picks
4th round= 1 pick
5th round= 2 picks
6th round= 1 pick

Thats 6 players in the first 3 rounds! AND, it would greatly benefit our youth infusion.

I wouldn't consider trading Romo or Witten at this point because both are having career years. They are servicable for another year ot two. And with the extra picks we can draft a QB for grooming, one Zac Dysert SPRINGS to mind. Hanna looks like a good TE prospect for the future.

If our servicable player in the trade is an Olineman, that would be 1 less thing to worry about.

We could get 2 O lineman (RT, G) D line (NT, DE) (OLB, QB) with the first 3 rounds alone, not in any particular order. Then we can look at S, RB, CB, and BPA with the remaining 4 picks.

That could be mighty enticing right about now. And before people go thinking we couldn't get a 1st and 2nd AND a servicable player for a guy like Ware, just look at what Philly got for Kolb (2nd, 4th and a starting CB) who isn't even their starting QB!

Now, reasons to NOT trade Ware. He is having a down year. Of course he has been injured all season. He is, without question one of the top defenders in the league. I would say top 3 at his position, top 10 among defenders over all. They would be big shoes to fill.

Offensive teams do scheme to try to take him out of the play or run the play away from his side. No one EVER designs a play to go AT Ware, thats for sure. He is a difference maker.

But there is one thing that always bothered me about Ware. He was never able to put this defense on his back and impose their will on an offense. He will get you 2 or 3 sacks in a game and make some nice hits. But it seems like whenever we were in a position to win a big game and needed a big defensive stop, I rarely hear his name mentioned.
You know you always hear the commentators say something like "__________, who else?" after the player makes a critical defensive play to stop a team on an important 3rd down to give our team the ball back. I don't see him as that type of player.

So, it comes down to this:

1. Do you find the idea of the extra draft picks, the servicable player and the fact that it immedieatley makes our team younger and stronger as a team enticing enough to pull the trigger on this one?

OR

2. Do you see Ware coming back next year along with Butler, Lee, Jenkins, Church, possibly Ratliff, hopefully a young stud NT, Claiborne in his 2nd year and guys like Crawford, Wilber, Lissemore and M. Johnson stepping up and making this defense a powerhouse led by none other than DeMarcus Ware?
first things first, Jenkins is a Free Agent at the end of the season, he can't be traded, so forget gettin a 3rd for him.

Second, your thoughts on Ware not making that critical play or not carring this defense on your back is in my opinion not warranted. He has made plenty of plays in critical times. For one, he is just about the only player on this defense who is schemed against by opposing teams. The lack of any pass rush from our Dline and the other OLB spot left Ware on an island against double and triple team protection, and yet, nobody else would step up and help the pass rush. And the next thing, name another player on this defense who has made more plays over the last few years than Ware?
Finally, who will replace him in the lineup? Butler?? Please!! What a joke of a player who is also a free agent this offseason and should not be re-signed! An unknown rookie?? Ok let's take that risk and hope it pans out, if not, you just set your defense back a few years. A Free Agent? Who is out there that could produce 3/4 of what Ware does?? 3/4 you ask? That's because there is no FA who can do 100% of what Ware can do.


As for point number 1 in bold type, I already made that point quite clearly.

As for point number 2 in bold type, Sean Lee makes more critical stops on 3rd downs and red zone defense than D Ware.

Ladies and Gents, I give you DeMarcus Ware's productivity:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/7187/defense_splits.html

He plays better:

Turf= 10.5 scaks
Grass= 1.5

Outdoors= 8.5 sacks
Indoors= 3

Day= 7.0
Night= 4.5

Sack totals decrease by 1 each month:

Sept= 4.0
Oct= 3.5
Nov= 2.5
Dec= 1.5

Majority of sacks happen in the early part of the season

Games 1-8= 9.0 sacks
Games 9-16= 2.5

Gets majority of his sacks up the middle:

Right side= 1
Left side= 1
Middle= 9.5

Sacks on Downs:

This one is a little confusing because he only has 11.5 sacks this year. my guess is some of the down and distances overlap.

1st= 8.0
2nd= 7.0
3rd= 8.0
4th= 0

I'm not saying he is not an effective player or tops at his position. But would you rather have 1 player who is top 3 at his position and yet our TEAM DEFENSE still gets burned and our O line sucks, or would you rather trade said player that is already 8 years in the league and pick up 2 or 3 potential young players at positions of greater need right now?

As for who will replace him. The answer is easy, you don't replace a guy like that. But if is production is not producing playoff wins or championships you are simply wasting his talent here. If you could get 2 or 3 players that could come in and help plug the holes on the O line, D line and other areas, we could get someone who is servicable at his position. Don't forget, we have Lee and Carter coming back, we drafted Wilber and McSurdy, Albright looked really good in his role and if we did get a number of draft picks we could draft yet another OLB that is younger and very capable. Again, having a stud at that postion is not helping us win anything, perhaps we need to address other areas of need and this may be the only way to accomplish that.

On the other hand, I do like Ware and would hate to lose him. But I'm simply entertaining both lines of thought here.
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THE BIG CHEEZE


Joined: 06 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
I've always said that I would trust people on this board (except the extreme homers) to GM the Cowboys instead of Jerry Jones. I officially have more faith in Jerry Jones at this point. The OP is looking at the Cowboys as a business and Ware as a commodity that has value. All you guys see is a player you like. The OP is not weird or delusional. He's actually asking a critical question that the Cowboys NEED to ask themselves in the very near future.

To the OP, my response is that it "depends." IMO, if you trade Ware, you cannot stop at Ware. I think you have to trade Witten, Romo, and Spencer at that point. If you're going to rebuild, then rebuild in full.

If we could get a deal similar to what KC got for Jared Allen, Cincy got for Carson Palmer and KC got for Tony Gonzales... we'd have to strongly consider it.

I actually think Sunday's game and immediate aftermath goes a long way to deciding what we should do. We see teams like the Redskins, Seahawks, and 49ers rising fast. Those teams look very strong now and for several years to come. If we are overmatched against them right now, then I don't see next year or the year after being any better. I would say that we'd have to rebuild to compete against them at that level.

I would rather build a young strong team that can complete for years to come than hold on to a fading glimmer of hope of aging players. The fastest way to rebuild is to trade those players while they still have value.



Well Jerry Jones may not be your favorite G.M. but he is a better business man than anyone we know. You were correct by looking at Ware as a commodity, what you failed to point out is that he is a proven commodity. He gets sacks, sells jerseys, is active in the community, keeps his nose clean, respects the shield and the star, and will eventually make it to Canton. Jared Allen had a few DUI's, Richard Seymour isn't on the same level as Ware, the raiders are stupid and Gonzalez was older. Did I mention that Ware gets crazy amounts sacks? Why would you get rid of all of that? For a another pass rusher? If he was a knuckled head yes. if he was injury prone, yes. If he was above average, yes? If he was 34/35, yes. Right now, Hell to the no. I'm glad you aren't the G.M. because I like rooting for the players like D-ware, he also great for business, and even better for our team...oh yeah, did I mention he gets mad sacks?
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