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Raiders QB Carson Palmer out for Week 17.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ jtagg, zoom and others just curious whats your top 10 all time qb list look like.

not really in any order

montana, brady, big ben, peyton, bradshaw, jim kelly, troy, eli, elway, steve young

hm: marino, arod, brees

note i didnt add the old guys like bart star and jonny u cause im only 31
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
@ jtagg, zoom and others just curious whats your top 10 all time qb list look like.

not really in any order

montana, brady, big ben, peyton, bradshaw, jim kelly, troy, eli, elway, steve young

hm: marino, arod, brees

note i didnt add the old guys like bart star and jonny u cause im only 31


Big Ben. OMG. Stop it. Bradshaw. lord. What in Gods name are you talking about. if we are starting from Bradshaw down mid 70s era. No way Big Ben should be in anybodies top 10. Bradshaw may barely make it.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
imo qb is the only position that is judged by their win-loss record especially in the playoffs.

marino has records and was great but you never hear about him in the same sentence as brady, montana etc etc. and sorry to say it but SB rings mean a hell of a lot when it comes to comparing and contrasting.


I agree if you are talking about a QB who truly carries their team, makes great comebacks, and is clutch. But c'mon, is Terry Bradshaw really a better QB than Dan Marino? He has 4 Super Bowls compared to Marino's 0, but he really wasnt a great QB at all. He had 4 seasons of 20+ TDs and barely completed 50% of his passes every year. Stats arent all that matters, but its pretty obvous he did not win those Super Bowls, his GOAT defense did. I dont care what his record was, I'll take a guy like Marino who could take over a game, do far more impressive things on the field, and raise his WRs level of play.

I dont like how some people treat playoff records. People act like it is as simple as a guy who either can or cannot raise his level of play when it really counts. Sometimes (rarely) thats the case, but there are plenty of times where a QB won in the post season soley because his RB went HAM for a game, or his defense shut down the other team, or some great ST play. Likewise, a great QB can lose if their defense flops, etc. Its a long road to the SB, and one bad game or even one bad play by either the QB or any of the other players can end their shot, so I dont like to use playoff wins straight up as a gauge of a QB, unless how they played really and truly had the greatest impact on the outcome. Brady, Montana, yea I'll give you those guys. But wins, even in the post season, are not always indicative of a QB's worth.


imo yes

bradshaw is arguably the most clutch qb ever esp in the playoffs imo where it counts the most.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=5850

Quote:
The only two QBs in NFL history to go 4-0 in the Super Bowl are looked at as two of the best playoff performers of all time.

They won multiple Super Bowl MVP awards. Joe Montana has the record with three, and Terry Bradshaw won two in his final two appearances.

Bradshaw threw 30 TD passes, the most in postseason history at the time of his retirement. His 83.0 rating was very good since most of his playoff games were played in the difficult passing decade of the 1970's.
They were big winners. Bradshaw was 14-5 as a playoff starter and his 14 wins were the record until Montana surpassed him with a 16-7 mark.


bradshaw was a stud dont sleep on the guy. 30 playoff tds and you still think he didnt play a huge role in those SB runs?
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14917
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
@ jtagg, zoom and others just curious whats your top 10 all time qb list look like.

not really in any order

montana, brady, big ben, peyton, bradshaw, jim kelly, troy, eli, elway, steve young

hm: marino, arod, brees

note i didnt add the old guys like bart star and jonny u cause im only 31


Big Ben. OMG. Stop it. Bradshaw. lord. What in Gods name are you talking about. if we are starting from Bradshaw down mid 70s era. No way Big Ben should be in anybodies top 10. Bradshaw may barely make it.


where is your list then buddy
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since its so "drastically" different please tell how...enlighten me. The zone blocking scheme Knapp runs is designed to use a lot of roll outs and short intermediate routes, just like every other West Coast offense.

Again, I'm not talking running compared to passing...striclly passing only....what is so different? How are RG III's numbers so "inflated"? You guys say this stuff....like "you're trolling", "wtf are you talking about", "you need to watch again, with glasses, but yet never back any of your crap claims up...never show any legs to stand on.

I've had Sunday Ticket for 9 years straight to never miss a Raiders game and watch every other game, I just watched to Skins Cowboys replay last night on NFL Network....I know Tagg you're not very smart and may think their schemes are different, because RG3 is better at running the offense, moves around better, is more accurate, and throws crisp passes compared to your man crush, but their offense is the same....how is this trolling, how am I blind, and how do I know "wtf I am talking about".....I'll wait for you to come up with a legitimate response.....it's easy to sound smart by making empty claims like most of you do...in this case it's the "usual suspect" Jtagg the king of making empty claims and using clever banter to make himself look smarter...Big Mike...for some reason....and I'm not if S&B are you trying to make these same empty claims with no legs to stand on???

Also while we're at it Tagg, show me how RG3's numbers are inflated because of the offense the run...I'll wait.....I mean their pass to runn ration is 50/50, he has missed time due to injury, in fact a whole game.....and his WRs aren't hall of fame caliber and certaintly not pro bowl worthy....what are the Shannahan's doing to inflate his numbers.....can't wait.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21609
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
@ jtagg, zoom and others just curious whats your top 10 all time qb list look like.

not really in any order

montana, brady, big ben, peyton, bradshaw, jim kelly, troy, eli, elway, steve young

hm: marino, arod, brees

note i didnt add the old guys like bart star and jonny u cause im only 31


Big Ben. OMG. Stop it. Bradshaw. lord. What in Gods name are you talking about. if we are starting from Bradshaw down mid 70s era. No way Big Ben should be in anybodies top 10. Bradshaw may barely make it.


where is your list then buddy


In no order

Staubach, Montana, Young, Marino, Elway, Brady, Manning, Farve, Tarkenton, Kelly or Aikman. Thats just from the era that you started from.

Johnny U and Starr and Sammy Baugh and Otto Graham(from what I heard) would be in there from the older days.

EDIT: I could also throw Moon in there.


Last edited by dante9876 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7730
Location: CA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
I've had Sunday Ticket for 9 years straight to never miss a Raiders game and watch every other game, I just watched to Skins Cowboys replay last night on NFL Network....I know Tagg you're not very smart and may think their schemes are different, because RG3 is better at running the offense, moves around better, is more accurate, and throws crisp passes compared to your man crush, but their offense is the same....how is this trolling, how am I blind, and how do I know "wtf I am talking about".....I'll wait for you to come up with a legitimate response.....


It's not the same though. You know what the pistol offense is? How many times have we ran it? And do you know why RG3 can actually run play-action? Because the Redskins running game actually works. You don't have a clue dude. You have a brain the size of a walnut.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21609
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Since its so "drastically" different please tell how...enlighten me. The zone blocking scheme Knapp runs is designed to use a lot of roll outs and short intermediate routes, just like every other West Coast offense.

Again, I'm not talking running compared to passing...striclly passing only....what is so different? How are RG III's numbers so "inflated"? You guys say this stuff....like "you're trolling", "wtf are you talking about", "you need to watch again, with glasses, but yet never back any of your crap claims up...never show any legs to stand on.

I've had Sunday Ticket for 9 years straight to never miss a Raiders game and watch every other game, I just watched to Skins Cowboys replay last night on NFL Network....I know Tagg you're not very smart and may think their schemes are different, because RG3 is better at running the offense, moves around better, is more accurate, and throws crisp passes compared to your man crush, but their offense is the same....how is this trolling, how am I blind, and how do I know "wtf I am talking about".....I'll wait for you to come up with a legitimate response.....it's easy to sound smart by making empty claims like most of you do...in this case it's the "usual suspect" Jtagg the king of making empty claims and using clever banter to make himself look smarter...Big Mike...for some reason....and I'm not if S&B are you trying to make these same empty claims with no legs to stand on???

Also while we're at it Tagg, show me how RG3's numbers are inflated because of the offense the run...I'll wait.....I mean their pass to runn ration is 50/50, he has missed time due to injury, in fact a whole game.....and his WRs aren't hall of fame caliber and certaintly not pro bowl worthy....what are the Shannahan's doing to inflate his numbers.....can't wait.


Dude RG3 throw a lot of screens and one read routes and his running game opens up the passing game. Also Garcon and Moss is better than any WR we have on our roster. Only thing you got right about the offenses being the same is they both use the ZBS. Other than that our offenses are way different not to mention Kyle is way way way more creative than Knapp.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
@ jtagg, zoom and others just curious whats your top 10 all time qb list look like.

not really in any order

montana, brady, big ben, peyton, bradshaw, jim kelly, troy, eli, elway, steve young

hm: marino, arod, brees

note i didnt add the old guys like bart star and jonny u cause im only 31


In no order

Brady
Manning
Marino
Young
Elway
Favre
Unitas
Staubach
Starr
Graham.

The fact you have Eli in there might be the funniest thing you've ever said in your entire life. Like, I'm not even kidding. That is one the greatest things I have ever seen in my entire life.

Thank you.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh wait, is this only top 10 we've seen play? If still, Eli wouldn't be top 10 LOL. Eli.... that's great. Man..... hahahaha
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Oh wait, is this only top 10 we've seen play? If still, Eli wouldn't be top 10 LOL. Eli.... that's great. Man..... hahahaha


Yeah I agree with Jtagg here. Just shows how crazy that is. Eli and Big Ben would make my top 10 if I started watching football in 2002 or so.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Oh wait, is this only top 10 we've seen play? If still, Eli wouldn't be top 10 LOL. Eli.... that's great. Man..... hahahaha


Yeah I agree with Jtagg here. Just shows how crazy that is. Eli and Big Ben would make my top 10 if I started watching football in 2002 or so.


idk they are generally pretty clutch in the playoffs esp last year eli was dam near flawless.

eli would be last on my list fwiw maybe even in the hm crowd.

i honestly havent seen alot of star, jonn u etc etc so i didnt include them
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101


Last edited by NCOUGHMAN on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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thelawoffices


Joined: 08 Dec 2007
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Location: Event Horizon Of Smugness
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
@ jtagg, zoom and others just curious whats your top 10 all time qb list look like.

not really in any order

montana, brady, big ben, peyton, bradshaw, jim kelly, troy, eli, elway, steve young

hm: marino, arod, brees

note i didnt add the old guys like bart star and jonny u cause im only 31


Marino is undoubtedly better than the guys I bolded. I'd take him over Elway, too. Favre is better than all the guys I bolded, too. I'd take Kurt Warner over them as well.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, Eli isn't even a top 40 QB....
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NCOUGHMAN


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thelawoffices wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
@ jtagg, zoom and others just curious whats your top 10 all time qb list look like.

not really in any order

montana, brady, big ben, peyton, bradshaw, jim kelly, troy, eli, elway, steve young

hm: marino, arod, brees

note i didnt add the old guys like bart star and jonny u cause im only 31


Marino is undoubtedly better than the guys I bolded. I'd take him over Elway, too. Favre is better than all the guys I bolded, too. I'd take Kurt Warner over them as well.


if i had a championship game to play id ride or die with my top 10 over marino, farve and kurt anyday. farve and kurt would be in the hm though.
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