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Pete Carrollís 5 Tech and what is Says about Other Positions
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Pete Carrollís 5 Tech and what is Says about Other Positions Reply with quote

When Pete Carroll came to Seattle, talk instantly turned to the defense he ran at USC. Similar to Ohio Stateís, it is famous for the Elephant position, which we call the LEO. During Carrollís time at USC both Brian Cushing and then later Clay Mathews manned it. Now the role was not identical to what it is now, but I believe thatís mainly due to the personnel he had playing the position. Matthews and especially Cushing were more adept at dropping into coverage. However, Clemons is a great fit for the role and Irvin will slide in nicely in the future.

Perhaps just as important to the LEO position is the 5 technique that balances the LEO. When Carroll got here he and the DL coach made an unusual and genius move by placing Red Bryant at 5tech. Over Bryantís 3 years at the position, heís done an overall great job against the run (though heís lacked a little this year comparatively) and been all but non-existent in the pass rushing game. That is neither here nor there however.



I believe there is a misconception about what the 5tech is required of in Carrollís defense. I believe that Red Bryantís massive stature combined with Carroll saying he runs a 4-3 with 3-4 personnel has lead us to believe we need a true 3-4 DE type at Redís spot. Well, I donít think thatís really the case. I decided to go back and look at the LEO and 5T (Iím going to abbreviate 5 tech for ease) over the latter part of Carrollís time at USC.
2005
DE- Lawrence Jackson (6-5, 265, So) 10 sacks
DE- Frostee Rucker (6-3, 260, Sr) 6.5 sacks

2006
LE- Lawrence Jackson (6-5, 265, Jr)
RE- Kyle Moore (6-7, 265, So)
Or
RE- Jeff Schweiger (6-4, 260, Jr)
SLB- Cushing/Matthews
None of the starting DEís had sacksÖ Cushings had 5, LB Sartz had 7. Sedrick Ellis had about 5 in both 05 and 06.

2007
LE- Lawrence Jackson (6-5, 265, Sr) 10.5 Sacks
RE- Kyle Moore (6-6, 260, Jr) 2 sacks
Or
RE- Everson Griffen (6-5, 260, Fr) 5.5 Sacks
SLB- Brian Cushing (6-4, 240, Jr) 1 Sack
Or
SLB - Clay Matthews (6-4, 240, SJ) 0 sacks
I will note that if memory serves me correctly, Cushing moved into a LEO role due to someoneís injury.

2008
5T- Kyle Moore (6-6, 275, Sr) 5 Sacks
LEO- Everson Griffen (6-3, 265, So) 4.5 Sacks
Or
LEO- Clay Matthews (6-4, 240, Sr) 4.5 Sacks
SLB- Brian Cushing (6-4, 240, Sr) 3 Sacks
The first year we see a true LEO look. Griffen was, and is, a pretty great athlete himself even though he is more of a pure DE.
Sedrick Ellis had 8.5 sacks.

2009
LE- Armond Armstead (6-5, 290, So)
LEO- Everson Griffen (6-3, 265, Jr) 8 sacks
OR
Nick Perry (6-3, 240, Fr) 8 sacks
Mid-year it appears Griffen took over the 5T more and Perry the LEO spot.


Whatís the point of all of this? Here are a couple key points.
-Every year a DT accounted for at least 4.5 sacks.
-The use of the LEO position was actually fairly new. I
-The 5T was never truly 3-4 End sized until Carrollís final year at USC.
-Some of Carrollís 5T really didnít generate that much pressure.
-SLB was used heavily as a blitzer it would seem.

Now, sacks are not even close to the only measure of QB pressure. We all know that. However, I think this says a couple things for the Seahawks.
-Red Bryant is an anomaly. Our next 5T, even by NFL standards, should be in the 275-300 range. In fact, Iíd say Justin Tuck in his prime would have been fine playing Carrollís 5T.
-DT needs to be a greater source of pass rush for us.
-Ideally, our SLB needs to be talented at rushing the passer. Weíve harped on this before, but we need to figure out if KJ Wright is that guy. If he isnít, he either needs to be moved to WLB or we need to figure out how to more creatively use our personnel.



Really, the point of all of this was to say that we need to broaden our scope when we are talking about a 5T in Carrollís system. JJ Watt is the prototype, but we donít need a true 3-4 2 gap DE. Carroll has consistently adapted to the talent he has, and will continue to adapt the defense to his best players.
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hawksman81


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up Tats. I love in depth info like this!

I did not know there was that large of a range of size of players that could play our 5t, which really opens up a lot possibilities in the draft.

For the SLB, I really think that if Jarvis Jones is medically cleared Pete would want to trade up to get him. Being that he went to USC but didnít get medically cleared, shows that he is a fit for our slb.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hawksman81 wrote:
Great write up Tats. I love in depth info like this!

I did not know there was that large of a range of size of players that could play our 5t, which really opens up a lot possibilities in the draft.

For the SLB, I really think that if Jarvis Jones is medically cleared Pete would want to trade up to get him. Being that he went to USC but didnít get medically cleared, shows that he is a fit for our slb.
I think there's certainly a "prototypical size" for the position, but more than anything this shows us that Carroll is open to talent players, plain and simple. He can and has made tweaks to his system to accommodate players.

Jarvis Jones could be a tremendous SLB if medically cleared, I agree.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting read. Pushes me even more towards being done with Red as a 5tech. If he's not a monster stopping the run he hurts us badly.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather give Red another year before just getting rid of him, he has been playing with a foot injury most of the year. Would love to have Jarvis Jones but if he's healthy there's no way he makes it out of the top 10. Would rather trade up for a pass rushing D tackle if we can't sign Melton in free agency.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A true 5T is a pass rushing DT IMO
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Selkiesxx


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question: (Might be a laugher)

Is there any other prospects that you see as ideal fits at SLB for you guys? Say for example, Damontre Moore or Dion Jordan? I'd assume Kyle Van Noy would make a good fit but he's returning for his senior year at BYU.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Selkiesxx wrote:
Quick question: (Might be a laugher)

Is there any other prospects that you see as ideal fits at SLB for you guys? Say for example, Damontre Moore or Dion Jordan? I'd assume Kyle Van Noy would make a good fit but he's returning for his senior year at BYU.
Moore fits well, he's SoSs man crush. I am a big fan of chase Thomas
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
Selkiesxx wrote:
Quick question: (Might be a laugher)

Is there any other prospects that you see as ideal fits at SLB for you guys? Say for example, Damontre Moore or Dion Jordan? I'd assume Kyle Van Noy would make a good fit but he's returning for his senior year at BYU.
Moore fits well, he's SoSs man crush. I am a big fan of chase Thomas


For SLB I'm more of a Sean Porter fan if we're talking A&M. Chase Thomas is another good candidate as well as Khaseem Greene and Jelani Jenkins.

Anyways, good writeup on this and it's pretty much what I would have expected to see. Part of the reason why I'm so surprised that we gave Red that big of a contract. He was definitely worthy to be brought back, but as a player that is so 1-dimensional, you'd assume we'd let him go for that price tag especially with our history of drafting starters.

I think Scruggs would be more of an ideal starting LDE in this defense. As far as the draft goes I'll be looking at guys like Margus Hunt, Chris Jones, and Datone Jones to fill that hole. Datone Jones would be an ideal candidate.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would we have gotten compensation if the Pats had signed Red?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaveourSonics wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
Selkiesxx wrote:
Quick question: (Might be a laugher)

Is there any other prospects that you see as ideal fits at SLB for you guys? Say for example, Damontre Moore or Dion Jordan? I'd assume Kyle Van Noy would make a good fit but he's returning for his senior year at BYU.
Moore fits well, he's SoSs man crush. I am a big fan of chase Thomas


For SLB I'm more of a Sean Porter fan if we're talking A&M. Chase Thomas is another good candidate as well as Khaseem Greene and Jelani Jenkins.

Anyways, good writeup on this and it's pretty much what I would have expected to see. Part of the reason why I'm so surprised that we gave Red that big of a contract. He was definitely worthy to be brought back, but as a player that is so 1-dimensional, you'd assume we'd let him go for that price tag especially with our history of drafting starters.

I think Scruggs would be more of an ideal starting LDE in this defense. As far as the draft goes I'll be looking at guys like Margus Hunt, Chris Jones, and Datone Jones to fill that hole. Datone Jones would be an ideal candidate.


My favorite SLB candidate is Chase Thomas, followed closely by Sean Porter. I have yet to see any footage on Khasseme Greene, and I am not big on Jelani Jenkins.

As far as Datone Jones goes, like I just posted in the mock drafts thread, I like what he is physically. He has ideal height and weight, long arms, and has experience at both LDE and 5-ttech (which is where I would like to put him). Very versatile. However, on tape, he looks raw. He is inconsistent and not very strong in the run game. However, I see lots of potential in him, just not an instant starter. Admittadly, I have not seen enough footage on him for this to be credible, but these are my first impressions.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
Would we have gotten compensation if the Pats had signed Red?


Yes and if it was anywhere near what we gave him we likely would've landed a 3rd rounder.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaveourSonics wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
Would we have gotten compensation if the Pats had signed Red?


Yes and if it was anywhere near what we gave him we likely would've landed a 3rd rounder.
That's what I was figuring. I would much prefer that to what happened here.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
Would we have gotten compensation if the Pats had signed Red?


Yes and if it was anywhere near what we gave him we likely would've landed a 3rd rounder.
That's what I was figuring. I would much prefer that to what happened here.


But if you think about it, we loved him coming into this season, so we would have been pissed if the pats took him away from us Laughing
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