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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 47363
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
Worilds is poor against the run, and hasn't beaten an OT for a sack. I did see him beat an OT with a nice inside spin, but he wasn't quite able to finish. I do't trust any OLB who goes 3 seasons without registering a sack against an OT.


This.

People needs to stop talking about Worlids as a possible future starter.

He hasnt even proven to be a quality backup yet.
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Gatoradus


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right. I'm not suggesting Woodley is a "cheaper" option for us if shifting him inside instead of James Harrison.

I'm actually suggesting that James Harrison get a pay cut, then a release next season where Woodley plays inside and let him develop more feeling into the position, we'd be able to draft more players that play in mold of constant pass-rusher.

I'm just saying this because I feel like it would squeeze our draft choices and make a real decision than having a bigger gap of needs and choosing between prospects based on whose Steelers feel most safe with.

Yes, I'm still high on Dion Jordan, but this would also give us a better merit of drafting other pass-rusher in draft. Real competition for Worilds and among other personnels as Cris Carter and Adrian Robinson.

I wish those players will get that chance this Sunday against the Browns... I just hope!
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot, in any dimension, on any planet, imagine Lamarr Woodley as an ILB. I'd put Dion Jordan at ILB before Woodley
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
Worilds is poor against the run, and hasn't beaten an OT for a sack. I did see him beat an OT with a nice inside spin, but he wasn't quite able to finish. I do't trust any OLB who goes 3 seasons without registering a sack against an OT.


This.

People needs to stop talking about Worlids as a possible future starter.

He hasnt even proven to be a quality backup yet.



What did James Harrison do before he showed up? The Steelers really won't know what they have in Worilds till he's given a full season as the starter. Can't judge a guy off a handful of starts and in game substitutions. Not saying that Worilds is good but the Steelers are the last team to take backups lightly.

As a lot of the starters were bench players.
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Gatoradus


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While that's true, Steelerproven... Steelers also give those would-be-starters meaningful snaps during training camp and practices to evaluate them better. It can be both ways- Worilds couldn't step in as a starter because of two players that are ahead of him in depth chart or he's just not good enough to play as a 3-4 OLB full-time.

I'm going with the second because we haven't seen him playing a complete phrase of game. We have seen flashes of James Harrison and Lamarr Woodley when both were just back-ups. That's the difference though. James Harrison's leap over Tomlinson... That was the day I knew he was capable of something but he turned out to be a pro bowler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42-7KJM2Vao

and even this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC3xNSiRTDc
Very Happy
Kethnaab, point being... What I were going at; those players are fine at OLBs, and I truly believe we are better off drafting an inside linebacker prospect to replace Foote rather than either OLBs we have right now.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
Worilds is poor against the run, and hasn't beaten an OT for a sack. I did see him beat an OT with a nice inside spin, but he wasn't quite able to finish. I do't trust any OLB who goes 3 seasons without registering a sack against an OT.


This.

People needs to stop talking about Worlids as a possible future starter.

He hasnt even proven to be a quality backup yet.



What did James Harrison do before he showed up? The Steelers really won't know what they have in Worilds till he's given a full season as the starter. Can't judge a guy off a handful of starts and in game substitutions. Not saying that Worilds is good but the Steelers are the last team to take backups lightly.

As a lot of the starters were bench players.


Harrison was a special teams demon before he started.

Worlds needs to set against the run better. It might help if Ziggy is not lined up by him but from what I've seen he is getting single blocked by TEs in running plays and getting moved out of his gaps.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
Worilds is poor against the run, and hasn't beaten an OT for a sack. I did see him beat an OT with a nice inside spin, but he wasn't quite able to finish. I do't trust any OLB who goes 3 seasons without registering a sack against an OT.


This.

People needs to stop talking about Worlids as a possible future starter.

He hasnt even proven to be a quality backup yet.



What did James Harrison do before he showed up? The Steelers really won't know what they have in Worilds till he's given a full season as the starter. Can't judge a guy off a handful of starts and in game substitutions. Not saying that Worilds is good but the Steelers are the last team to take backups lightly.

As a lot of the starters were bench players.


No offense, but this argument is terrible, and its not the first time Ive heard it.

For one, for every James Harrison type turnaround, there are 10 Bruce Davis' who just simply suck and fade away. Worlids is much closer to Bruce Davis than he is to James Harrison.

Secondly, James Harrison always showed he could be a great player. The only issue is he didnt follow directions well. Even LeBeau stated as much.

Worlids is a flat out bad player in every facet of the game. James Harrison always had "it"...just took longer to mature and adapt.

Im not saying there is no chance of a turnaround for Worlids, but he has shown absolutely nothing that should make anyone feel comfortable with him as a future starter.

And no...you dont just hand bad players starting positions hoping they do well with a full year. Thats what bad teams do. The only times good teams do it is when they have no choice. At this point, we have choices.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
Worilds is poor against the run, and hasn't beaten an OT for a sack. I did see him beat an OT with a nice inside spin, but he wasn't quite able to finish. I do't trust any OLB who goes 3 seasons without registering a sack against an OT.


This.

People needs to stop talking about Worlids as a possible future starter.

He hasnt even proven to be a quality backup yet.



What did James Harrison do before he showed up? The Steelers really won't know what they have in Worilds till he's given a full season as the starter. Can't judge a guy off a handful of starts and in game substitutions. Not saying that Worilds is good but the Steelers are the last team to take backups lightly.

As a lot of the starters were bench players.


No offense, but this argument is terrible, and its not the first time Ive heard it.

For one, for every James Harrison type turnaround, there are 10 Bruce Davis' who just simply suck and fade away. Worlids is much closer to Bruce Davis than he is to James Harrison.

Secondly, James Harrison always showed he could be a great player. The only issue is he didnt follow directions well. Even LeBeau stated as much.

Worlids is a flat out bad player in every facet of the game. James Harrison always had "it"...just took longer to mature and adapt.

Im not saying there is no chance of a turnaround for Worlids, but he has shown absolutely nothing that should make anyone feel comfortable with him as a future starter.

And no...you dont just hand bad players starting positions hoping they do well with a full year. Thats what bad teams do. The only times good teams do it is when they have no choice. At this point, we have choices.


Why because it's simplistic?

I don't think Worilds will play any worse then Harrison did this year. I believe he could of done better if he'd starter the entire season. Worilds injury really set him back, so there was know real way to gauge his progress.

Worilds starts he's a 6-9 sack OLB.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
Worilds is poor against the run, and hasn't beaten an OT for a sack. I did see him beat an OT with a nice inside spin, but he wasn't quite able to finish. I do't trust any OLB who goes 3 seasons without registering a sack against an OT.


This.

People needs to stop talking about Worlids as a possible future starter.

He hasnt even proven to be a quality backup yet.



What did James Harrison do before he showed up? The Steelers really won't know what they have in Worilds till he's given a full season as the starter. Can't judge a guy off a handful of starts and in game substitutions. Not saying that Worilds is good but the Steelers are the last team to take backups lightly.

As a lot of the starters were bench players.


No offense, but this argument is terrible, and its not the first time Ive heard it.

For one, for every James Harrison type turnaround, there are 10 Bruce Davis' who just simply suck and fade away. Worlids is much closer to Bruce Davis than he is to James Harrison.

Secondly, James Harrison always showed he could be a great player. The only issue is he didnt follow directions well. Even LeBeau stated as much.

Worlids is a flat out bad player in every facet of the game. James Harrison always had "it"...just took longer to mature and adapt.

Im not saying there is no chance of a turnaround for Worlids, but he has shown absolutely nothing that should make anyone feel comfortable with him as a future starter.

And no...you dont just hand bad players starting positions hoping they do well with a full year. Thats what bad teams do. The only times good teams do it is when they have no choice. At this point, we have choices.


Why because it's simplistic?

I don't think Worilds will play any worse then Harrison did this year. I believe he could of done better if he'd starter the entire season. Worilds injury really set him back, so there was know real way to gauge his progress.

Worilds starts he's a 6-9 sack OLB.


Whats simplistic? Handing a starting job to someone who has never even begun to earn it? Simplistic...stupid....whatever.

Teams still double James Harrison and respect his talent, even if he wasnt what he once was.

Also...you do realize there is more to an OLBs job than sacks right?

James Harrison playing on one leg is better than Worlids vs the run. There is a reason why you rarely see Worlids on the field outside of obvious passing situations.

You also realize that most of Worlids sacks and pressures come when he is either unaccounted for or going up against a TE or RB?

OLB is a top need. Worlids doesnt even remotely change that.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
Worilds is poor against the run, and hasn't beaten an OT for a sack. I did see him beat an OT with a nice inside spin, but he wasn't quite able to finish. I do't trust any OLB who goes 3 seasons without registering a sack against an OT.


This.

People needs to stop talking about Worlids as a possible future starter.

He hasnt even proven to be a quality backup yet.



What did James Harrison do before he showed up? The Steelers really won't know what they have in Worilds till he's given a full season as the starter. Can't judge a guy off a handful of starts and in game substitutions. Not saying that Worilds is good but the Steelers are the last team to take backups lightly.

As a lot of the starters were bench players.


No offense, but this argument is terrible, and its not the first time Ive heard it.

For one, for every James Harrison type turnaround, there are 10 Bruce Davis' who just simply suck and fade away. Worlids is much closer to Bruce Davis than he is to James Harrison.

Secondly, James Harrison always showed he could be a great player. The only issue is he didnt follow directions well. Even LeBeau stated as much.

Worlids is a flat out bad player in every facet of the game. James Harrison always had "it"...just took longer to mature and adapt.

Im not saying there is no chance of a turnaround for Worlids, but he has shown absolutely nothing that should make anyone feel comfortable with him as a future starter.

And no...you dont just hand bad players starting positions hoping they do well with a full year. Thats what bad teams do. The only times good teams do it is when they have no choice. At this point, we have choices.


Why because it's simplistic?

I don't think Worilds will play any worse then Harrison did this year. I believe he could of done better if he'd starter the entire season. Worilds injury really set him back, so there was know real way to gauge his progress.

Worilds starts he's a 6-9 sack OLB.


Whats simplistic? Handing a starting job to someone who has never even begun to earn it? Simplistic...stupid....whatever.

Teams still double James Harrison and respect his talent, even if he wasnt what he once was.

Also...you do realize there is more to an OLBs job than sacks right?

James Harrison playing on one leg is better than Worlids vs the run. There is a reason why you rarely see Worlids on the field outside of obvious passing situations.

You also realize that most of Worlids sacks and pressures come when he is either unaccounted for or going up against a TE or RB?

OLB is a top need. Worlids doesnt even remotely change that.



I've watched enough football to know that the game is more than just sacks, but this year it was about sacks. The Steelers defense was on pace for one of there worst total in years. Why is Harrison double teamed? Is it because he is a coverage OLB or was it because he could wreak havoc on opposing QBs?

You don't like Dion Jordan, but the OLB is about more right. The Steelers need a pass rushing OLB but the position is about more right?

I'm not saying Worilds is the answer, but drafted or signed Worilds will be the starting OLB if James Harrison is released. So for at least one season we might see what Worilds has to offer.
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Gatoradus


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

43M, you know with your argumentative statement, you kind of did implied that a prospect like Dion Jordan would be a good fit... But you don't like him?

I'm still baffled on that part. Maybe can you shed some lights on this?
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
43M, you know with your argumentative statement, you kind of did implied that a prospect like Dion Jordan would be a good fit... But you don't like him?

I'm still baffled on that part. Maybe can you shed some lights on this?


Show me where I even began to imply that a project pass rusher that is a far better athlete than he is a football player is a "good fit".

Ill spare you the time...I didnt.

And let me clarify it....I dont like him enough to take in the first round. If he is around in the 2nd, Id take him based on pure potential, which is basically all he is. I know he wont be, but either way, I still wouldnt touch him early in the draft.
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We ain't got nothing man, just a chiefs win, thats all you get...And next week it will be wash, rinse, repeat.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jebrick wrote:

Worlds needs to set against the run better. It might help if Ziggy is not lined up by him but from what I've seen he is getting single blocked by TEs in running plays and getting moved out of his gaps.


yep.

3 seasons. About 10 or so full games. Never once beat an offensive tackle for a sack. THREE SEASONS.

Good-bye.

43, EVERY sack he got was up against a TE or RB, aside from the unblocked ones and 2 he got after 5+ seconds post-snap, when the QB ran right into him.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
Worilds is poor against the run, and hasn't beaten an OT for a sack. I did see him beat an OT with a nice inside spin, but he wasn't quite able to finish. I do't trust any OLB who goes 3 seasons without registering a sack against an OT.


This.

People needs to stop talking about Worlids as a possible future starter.

He hasnt even proven to be a quality backup yet.



What did James Harrison do before he showed up? The Steelers really won't know what they have in Worilds till he's given a full season as the starter. Can't judge a guy off a handful of starts and in game substitutions. Not saying that Worilds is good but the Steelers are the last team to take backups lightly.

As a lot of the starters were bench players.


No offense, but this argument is terrible, and its not the first time Ive heard it.

For one, for every James Harrison type turnaround, there are 10 Bruce Davis' who just simply suck and fade away. Worlids is much closer to Bruce Davis than he is to James Harrison.

Secondly, James Harrison always showed he could be a great player. The only issue is he didnt follow directions well. Even LeBeau stated as much.

Worlids is a flat out bad player in every facet of the game. James Harrison always had "it"...just took longer to mature and adapt.

Im not saying there is no chance of a turnaround for Worlids, but he has shown absolutely nothing that should make anyone feel comfortable with him as a future starter.

And no...you dont just hand bad players starting positions hoping they do well with a full year. Thats what bad teams do. The only times good teams do it is when they have no choice. At this point, we have choices.


Why because it's simplistic?

I don't think Worilds will play any worse then Harrison did this year. I believe he could of done better if he'd starter the entire season. Worilds injury really set him back, so there was know real way to gauge his progress.

Worilds starts he's a 6-9 sack OLB.


Whats simplistic? Handing a starting job to someone who has never even begun to earn it? Simplistic...stupid....whatever.

Teams still double James Harrison and respect his talent, even if he wasnt what he once was.

Also...you do realize there is more to an OLBs job than sacks right?

James Harrison playing on one leg is better than Worlids vs the run. There is a reason why you rarely see Worlids on the field outside of obvious passing situations.

You also realize that most of Worlids sacks and pressures come when he is either unaccounted for or going up against a TE or RB?

OLB is a top need. Worlids doesnt even remotely change that.



I've watched enough football to know that the game is more than just sacks, but this year it was about sacks. The Steelers defense was on pace for one of there worst total in years. Why is Harrison double teamed? Is it because he is a coverage OLB or was it because he could wreak havoc on opposing QBs?

You don't like Dion Jordan, but the OLB is about more right. The Steelers need a pass rushing OLB but the position is about more right?

I'm not saying Worilds is the answer, but drafted or signed Worilds will be the starting OLB if James Harrison is released. So for at least one season we might see what Worilds has to offer.


There it is.

I agree he will be starting if its out of pure necessity.

My point is there is no way the Tomlin and Colbert can be sold on Worlids as a starter and suitable enough replacement for Harrison that they wouldnt consider OLB a major need.

And my question was more rhetorical than anything. I am aware you know the position is about more. But the way you were talking about Worlids being suitable, it didnt sound that way. You merely brought up his sacks even though his issues defending the run are FAR more concerning.

Worlids has a nice first step and my concerns about him arent in the pass rushing, even if I think he is very average and would struggle as a starter.

And Dion Jordan....IMO just another overrated Pac 10 player who relied on pure athleticism to make plays in college, and a boom or bust project type who I personally feel isnt worth the risk.

Its a matter of opinion. I get it. I respect it.

Im not impressed with him and dont think he is a good fit.

If we drafted him...Id support the pick and hope for the best, but I wouldmt be happy with it even a little.
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We ain't got nothing man, just a chiefs win, thats all you get...And next week it will be wash, rinse, repeat.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
jebrick wrote:

Worlds needs to set against the run better. It might help if Ziggy is not lined up by him but from what I've seen he is getting single blocked by TEs in running plays and getting moved out of his gaps.


yep.

3 seasons. About 10 or so full games. Never once beat an offensive tackle for a sack. THREE SEASONS.

Good-bye.

43, EVERY sack he got was up against a TE or RB, aside from the unblocked ones and 2 he got after 5+ seconds post-snap, when the QB ran right into him.


Well, thats what Im saying.

He has shown nothing in any phase of the game that makes me think he can be starters.

And trust me, Ive been looking for it. Something...anything to like about him. Sadly, Ive never found it,.
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