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Christmas Eve Mocking (and off season)
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 10057
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
I'm also a bigger fan of Ike's back ups than Harrison's back ups at this point.


Harrison is a $10m cap hit. Only way we can reduce that is to offer his base as a prorated bonus and extend him. He's 35 and doesn't pressure the QB anymore, at least not $10 million worth of pressure. $6.5m of his cap hit is base salary. I thik he'll be about $5 million cap hit if we release him, $10m if we don't

I'd like to see him play ILB next to Timmons while we see what Robinson can do in week 17.
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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 2063
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Dook wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
why Keisel? His contract looks cap friendly to me.


Why Keisel?

Heyward is why.
I'd rather have both. I think we should learn from this year not to get rid of depth when it's affordable. Look at all the injuries we had, and you want to cut the teams best DL who's salary is affordable?

Ummm.... Yeah... No thanks! Wink


Keisel's cap hit is about $4.5 million
Ike's cap hit is will be $9.5 million

one or both need to be restructured/released.

Ike's release leaves us with Allen and Lewis as our starters.
Keisel's release leaves us with Ziggy and Heyward as our starters.

I'm not sure which I feel more comfortable with.

Xavier Rhodes should be available. we pick 15th(ish). LeBeau is staying, he loves Ike. Of course, he loves Keisel as well. Ironhead Jr. is the OSU boy, Keisel might be gone even though I think he's better as a 5-tech than Ike is as a CB.

Dook, no idea why you come to this message board. You get into internet fights constantly with seemingly everyone. To each his/her own I suppose.


I come here because I can, that's why. You've done your share of fighting on here too, pretty much everyone does because the Mods allow it. I seem to remember a GDT that got closed recently because two people were fighting back and forth, wasn't me.

And I don't get into fights with everyone, just 4-3 and the little English boy who worships him and does his dirty work.

I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me but if you throw out insults, expect the same in return.
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MightyJoeYoung


Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: Wakefield, England
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its hilarious that you keep bringing nationality into the equation. Also, I'm not even little Wink

It's also funny that you say I worship 43 when we have got into more fights than anyone. Usually not even about football. I've matured since then but I far from worship him.
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm also a bigger fan of Ike's back ups than Harrison's back ups at this point.


Harrison is a $10m cap hit. Only way we can reduce that is to offer his base as a prorated bonus and extend him. He's 35 and doesn't pressure the QB anymore, at least not $10 million worth of pressure. $6.5m of his cap hit is base salary. I thik he'll be about $5 million cap hit if we release him, $10m if we don't

I'd like to see him play ILB next to Timmons while we see what Robinson can do in week 17.


I've seen other people mention we should start Harrison at ILB next year and find an OLB replacement. Peoples' thoughts on that?
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MightyJoeYoung


Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: Wakefield, England
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm also a bigger fan of Ike's back ups than Harrison's back ups at this point.


Harrison is a $10m cap hit. Only way we can reduce that is to offer his base as a prorated bonus and extend him. He's 35 and doesn't pressure the QB anymore, at least not $10 million worth of pressure. $6.5m of his cap hit is base salary. I thik he'll be about $5 million cap hit if we release him, $10m if we don't

I'd like to see him play ILB next to Timmons while we see what Robinson can do in week 17.


I've seen other people mention we should start Harrison at ILB next year and find an OLB replacement. Peoples' thoughts on that?

I'd much rather Spence get an opportunity or even Foote kept the position. Deebo can't cover anymore so he would basically do what Foote did and do maybe a bit better but for 7 million dollars extra.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it crazy that some think Harrison is done. I think he's been injured and there is know guarantee he won't be next season. But he still causes offenses to scheme and make line adjustments. The biggest negative is that when teams did know another front 4 person made a play. Worilds/Woodley could have wrecked havoc this season but neither did. Worilds doesn't get a pass even though I'd feel better about letting Harrison maybe walk if he di more, but he is a backup. But Woodley has zero excuse after the contract he signed. Should of known he take a dive after he said his new contract was for what he did not what he will be doing. SMH
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 10057
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
I find it crazy that some think Harrison is done.


he'll be 35, has been injured and missed substantial portions of the last 2 seasons, and has almost no explosion off the snap now. He's nowhere near as strong.

what he has is impressive football smarts and great shedding ability, which would be ideal on the inside. His coverage isn't as bad as people make it out to be, and he is orders of magnitude better against the run than Foote.

if we get rid of him, then so be it, but I would not be opposed to moving him inside to see what he can do there if we keep him and Adrian Robinson shows to be useful
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
I find it crazy that some think Harrison is done.


he'll be 35, has been injured and missed substantial portions of the last 2 seasons, and has almost no explosion off the snap now. He's nowhere near as strong.

what he has is impressive football smarts and great shedding ability, which would be ideal on the inside. His coverage isn't as bad as people make it out to be, and he is orders of magnitude better against the run than Foote.

if we get rid of him, then so be it, but I would not be opposed to moving him inside to see what he can do there if we keep him and Adrian Robinson shows to be useful


But as the season wore on he began to look like his former self. It was stated that Harrison wouldn't be healthy all season. But Harrison at 60% was still better then what the Steelers had on the roster. Which is pretty terrible because that shows what the Steelers think of Worilds. But to Worilds defense he has some type of "injury" himself.
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mosteelers


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 1361
Location: Washington State
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have said this before. One thing I loved during the Cowher era was we released guys that were 30+. We need youth. Paying guys and more importantly signing long term contracts to guys 30+ is dumb. We pay people, who are more likely to ride the bench because of injuries. I know we need to have a viable replacement, but I don't think we are looking far enough in the future with our drafting. We could also sign a younger replacement in free agency.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mosteelers wrote:
I have said this before. One thing I loved during the Cowher era was we released guys that were 30+. We need youth. Paying guys and more importantly signing long term contracts to guys 30+ is dumb. We pay people, who are more likely to ride the bench because of injuries. I know we need to have a viable replacement, but I don't think we are looking far enough in the future with our drafting. We could also sign a younger replacement in free agency.


do not confuse releasing aging players with not signing 3rd contracts. Steelers are not big fans of 3rd contracts because they are the most expensive for players past their prime. Eagles do/did the same thing.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mosteelers wrote:
I have said this before. One thing I loved during the Cowher era was we released guys that were 30+. We need youth. Paying guys and more importantly signing long term contracts to guys 30+ is dumb. We pay people, who are more likely to ride the bench because of injuries. I know we need to have a viable replacement, but I don't think we are looking far enough in the future with our drafting. We could also sign a younger replacement in free agency.


Don't get it confused that was Tom Donahoe's doing. Everybody always thinks Cowher had complete and utter control which is a fallacy. Cowher had more input when Colbert took over and that was based off his time with the team.

Cowher and Donahoe butted heads a lot during there time together, which let to Donahoe resigning.
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shawn l brown


Joined: 22 Jan 2010
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Location: cleveland ohio us
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dook wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Dook wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
why Keisel? His contract looks cap friendly to me.


Why Keisel?

Heyward is why.
I'd rather have both. I think we should learn from this year not to get rid of depth when it's affordable. Look at all the injuries we had, and you want to cut the teams best DL who's salary is affordable?

Ummm.... Yeah... No thanks! Wink


Keisel's cap hit is about $4.5 million
Ike's cap hit is will be $9.5 million

one or both need to be restructured/released.

Ike's release leaves us with Allen and Lewis as our starters.
Keisel's release leaves us with Ziggy and Heyward as our starters.

I'm not sure which I feel more comfortable with.

Xavier Rhodes should be available. we pick 15th(ish). LeBeau is staying, he loves Ike. Of course, he loves Keisel as well. Ironhead Jr. is the OSU boy, Keisel might be gone even though I think he's better as a 5-tech than Ike is as a CB.

Dook, no idea why you come to this message board. You get into internet fights constantly with seemingly everyone. To each his/her own I suppose.


I come here because I can, that's why. You've done your share of fighting on here too, pretty much everyone does because the Mods allow it. I seem to remember a GDT that got closed recently because two people were fighting back and forth, wasn't me.

And I don't get into fights with everyone, just 4-3 and the little English boy who worships him and does his dirty work.

I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me but if you throw out insults, expect the same in return.
I've fought on here with the best of them.
Some of the people have away with there wording that can make the pope mad as hell.
The biggest thing i have learned is to make a point and move on Because if you argue with a idiot you will lose because he has a head start.

Some people argue because they want to win but what do you win another day of being back on this site.
Guess what the loser gets? another all day pass to post his points at this site.
Boy ain't you glad you won that fight. Life is to short to walk around mad.
So Just walk away.
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mosteelers


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 1361
Location: Washington State
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
mosteelers wrote:
I have said this before. One thing I loved during the Cowher era was we released guys that were 30+. We need youth. Paying guys and more importantly signing long term contracts to guys 30+ is dumb. We pay people, who are more likely to ride the bench because of injuries. I know we need to have a viable replacement, but I don't think we are looking far enough in the future with our drafting. We could also sign a younger replacement in free agency.


Don't get it confused that was Tom Donahoe's doing. Everybody always thinks Cowher had complete and utter control which is a fallacy. Cowher had more input when Colbert took over and that was based off his time with the team.

Cowher and Donahoe butted heads a lot during there time together, which let to Donahoe resigning.


Yeah I know it was Donahoe, but it was during Cowher's era. I wasn't assigning credit just a timetable.

I just want us to get back to keeping our own young guys and get rid of older guys. I don't like paying guys who sit on the bench.
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Gatoradus


Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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Location: Virginia Beach, VA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it strange that people claim we ought to try James Harrison at ILB when I find it more likely for Lamaar Woodley to take over ILB. Considering Woodley have been playing out of his position and played more coverage than ever, his run stopping is just as good as any of our LBs, this is more of a cheaper option where you can re-construct James Harrison's contract for a season more, then let him go when a viable replacement exists on our roster.

I personally don't think Jason Worilds is a viable replacement even if he's considered as our "currently best pass-rusher" but when you are only a pass-rusher, you get exposed in every other aspects of game. No thanks.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 10057
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
I find it strange that people claim we ought to try James Harrison at ILB when I find it more likely for Lamaar Woodley to take over ILB. Considering Woodley have been playing out of his position and played more coverage than ever, his run stopping is just as good as any of our LBs, this is more of a cheaper option where you can re-construct James Harrison's contract for a season more, then let him go when a viable replacement exists on our roster.


1. Woodley does not stop the run as well as Harrison. Woodley spends far more time getting blocked by TEs than Deebo does.
2. Woodley is not cheaper than Harrison next year. His cap hit is $13 million+, Harrison's is $10 million
3. Deebo would make a far better ILB than Woodley, but that's pure opinion on my part

Gatoradus wrote:
I personally don't think Jason Worilds is a viable replacement even if he's considered as our "currently best pass-rusher" but when you are only a pass-rusher, you get exposed in every other aspects of game. No thanks.


Worilds is poor against the run, and hasn't beaten an OT for a sack. I did see him beat an OT with a nice inside spin, but he wasn't quite able to finish. I do't trust any OLB who goes 3 seasons without registering a sack against an OT.
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