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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Elkhorn, WI
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 Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Grasspike wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Grasspike wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Grasspike wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Grasspike wrote: | | Texansfan713 wrote: | | CAS22 wrote: | | Give Schaub the 2011 OL and the 2011 pass rush and we win the Super Bowl. Things just are not the same this year and Schaub is not a good enough QB to make up for the OL deficiencies. It's on Rick to find a way to shore up the line this offseason while also piecing the defense back together. It is going to be very tough. |
It's also on him to make sure he gets another weapon to go with Andre too. It's obvious Walter isn't a number 2 WR and receiving threat. IDC if he can block well or not. |
Agreed. The talent level on offense slipped this year, and though Brooks, Ben Jones, Posey, and Martin are likely to improve their second years, offense still needs to be a focus in this year's draft. As many "holes" as there are on defense, the D is still more productive than offense at this point and the talent level on O has the potential to fade fast. I would not be opposed at all to drafting a RT in the first and a RB in the 2nd. |
This is a weak argument, there are guys running open and schaub is simply missing them....unless he finds the little mojo he once had, no wr will help this team |
The little mojo he once had? The guy led the league in passing yards one year with the corpse of Steve Slaton as the primary RB... |
 get over it, it was A LONG TIME AGO in this league, he is garbage
why don't we sign David Carr, he won his first game ever, GOAT |
I couldn't come up with a weaker argument than that if I tried. The fact is, Schaub is a borderline Pro Bowl QB who plays well in this system. He's been consistently good since he got here. I know we all want a QB with a laser-sighted, heat-seeking missile launcher of an arm with the football mind of Vince Lombardi, but the fact is we should appreciate the fact we have one of the top 10 QB's in the game who will put the team in position to win. That's more than most of the teams in the league can say... |
but the point remains, he has progressively gotten worse, still doesn't show up in big games and cannot carry this offense to a win if our run game doesn't control the game.....I agree we have no choice, let him run the playoffs and see what happens. BUT if/when he falls on his face in the wild card we better come up with a plan B as an organization |
The "big games" you decided he didn't show up for were arbitrarily chosen. mse and I have pointed out several other "big games" that he did show up for, but I guess they weren't good enough for you. |
Ive already debunked your "big game wins".....beating a terrible Jags and Lions in overtime, is not very convincing, neither is squeaking by a Broncos team in week 3
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Grasspike
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 4973
Location: Davidson College
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| amazingandre wrote: | | Grasspike wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Grasspike wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Grasspike wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Grasspike wrote: | | Texansfan713 wrote: | | CAS22 wrote: | | Give Schaub the 2011 OL and the 2011 pass rush and we win the Super Bowl. Things just are not the same this year and Schaub is not a good enough QB to make up for the OL deficiencies. It's on Rick to find a way to shore up the line this offseason while also piecing the defense back together. It is going to be very tough. |
It's also on him to make sure he gets another weapon to go with Andre too. It's obvious Walter isn't a number 2 WR and receiving threat. IDC if he can block well or not. |
Agreed. The talent level on offense slipped this year, and though Brooks, Ben Jones, Posey, and Martin are likely to improve their second years, offense still needs to be a focus in this year's draft. As many "holes" as there are on defense, the D is still more productive than offense at this point and the talent level on O has the potential to fade fast. I would not be opposed at all to drafting a RT in the first and a RB in the 2nd. |
This is a weak argument, there are guys running open and schaub is simply missing them....unless he finds the little mojo he once had, no wr will help this team |
The little mojo he once had? The guy led the league in passing yards one year with the corpse of Steve Slaton as the primary RB... |
get over it, it was A LONG TIME AGO in this league, he is garbage
why don't we sign David Carr, he won his first game ever, GOAT |
I couldn't come up with a weaker argument than that if I tried. The fact is, Schaub is a borderline Pro Bowl QB who plays well in this system. He's been consistently good since he got here. I know we all want a QB with a laser-sighted, heat-seeking missile launcher of an arm with the football mind of Vince Lombardi, but the fact is we should appreciate the fact we have one of the top 10 QB's in the game who will put the team in position to win. That's more than most of the teams in the league can say... |
but the point remains, he has progressively gotten worse, still doesn't show up in big games and cannot carry this offense to a win if our run game doesn't control the game.....I agree we have no choice, let him run the playoffs and see what happens. BUT if/when he falls on his face in the wild card we better come up with a plan B as an organization |
The "big games" you decided he didn't show up for were arbitrarily chosen. mse and I have pointed out several other "big games" that he did show up for, but I guess they weren't good enough for you. |
Ive already debunked your "big game wins".....beating a terrible Jags and Lions in overtime, is not very convincing, neither is squeaking by a Broncos team in week 3 |
Since when did I call a Jags game a big win? I'd point to the Baltimore, Denver, and first Indy game as Schaub's signature wins this season. He had great games at the #1 seed, the #4 seed that was 5-1 at the time with wins over the Pats and Bengals, and the #5 seed to clinch a playoff berth. How are none of those wins "big games?"
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Back at work, figured I would chime in.
Now, as I said on my FB wall...I'm not off the Matt Schaub bandwagon, but I am finding my ways towards the emergency exit. This was AFTER the Minny game, so this past Sunday didn't exactly get me back in my seat, with seatbelt fastened and tray table in an upright position.
Now, I am ALL for people stating that Schaub needs to be replaced, but let's be realistic here - if it's gonna happen, it can't (and shouldn't) happen now. The simple reason is that there is no other QB on the roster or available via FA to take the reigns right now. Despite the clamorings of a select few, QB TJ Yates isn't going to get the job done - he was nothing more than a caretaker in his 4-4 run last year, with some abysmal losses in there. Sure, there was a single inspiring moment in there, a TD pass to Kevin Walter against the Bengals - but outside of that, can you find me a single instance in which Yates carried this team in a manner that was moreso impressive than what Matt Schaub has done in his tenure as a Texan? Guy was carried by a great D in the Falcons game, guy was hamstrung by the likes of the Colts and Panthers (both of them were ranked in the 30s on D when those two losses went down) had a very pedestrian "don't screw it up" outing in the playoffs, and was completely crushed by the Ravens. Where in any of those games do you see this guy as being the ANSWER for the Texans?
People get caught up in his tangible talents (which are negligable at best when compared to Schaub) but his Xs and Os mindset is FAR behind that of Schaub - and given that we still have a chance to right the wrongs of the last few weeks, it's apparent that we need to run with our best hand. Matt Schaub is that guy, for better or worse.
Now, if Matt comes out and goes all Jacksonville-esque against the Bengals, I can say for CERTAIN that many will be quick to jump back on his bandwagon. I for one will stick with my current stance - just like it will take more than one game to push me off this wagon, it will take more than one game to get me sitting at the head of the bus. UNLESS Matt were to lead this team on an improbable SB run, I would say that next year has to be a judgement year on Matt. He's got to keep the fire going, not crumble under the bright lights, and not hit a slump at the worst possible time. Much like 2012 was the year in which he had to prove he can withstand a beating without getting hurt (which he DID, in a year where he was beaten on pretty badly) 2013 is going to be about how he handles himself when the city and the team have all eyes on him. If he can make it, then you keep him. If there is a single indication that he will falter, THEN you hand the reigns to someone else and scale back the offense, get the max value out of Ben Tate before he walks, and look to the 2014 FA QB class and draft class to find out who will take snaps for the Texans.
It's come down to the next few games and the 2013 season. But, it's safe to say that the bandwagon for Matty Fire is quickly going ablaze.
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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Elkhorn, WI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| EliteTexan80 wrote: | Back at work, figured I would chime in.
Now, as I said on my FB wall...I'm not off the Matt Schaub bandwagon, but I am finding my ways towards the emergency exit. This was AFTER the Minny game, so this past Sunday didn't exactly get me back in my seat, with seatbelt fastened and tray table in an upright position.
Now, I am ALL for people stating that Schaub needs to be replaced, but let's be realistic here - if it's gonna happen, it can't (and shouldn't) happen now. The simple reason is that there is no other QB on the roster or available via FA to take the reigns right now. Despite the clamorings of a select few, QB TJ Yates isn't going to get the job done - he was nothing more than a caretaker in his 4-4 run last year, with some abysmal losses in there. Sure, there was a single inspiring moment in there, a TD pass to Kevin Walter against the Bengals - but outside of that, can you find me a single instance in which Yates carried this team in a manner that was moreso impressive than what Matt Schaub has done in his tenure as a Texan? Guy was carried by a great D in the Falcons game, guy was hamstrung by the likes of the Colts and Panthers (both of them were ranked in the 30s on D when those two losses went down) had a very pedestrian "don't screw it up" outing in the playoffs, and was completely crushed by the Ravens. Where in any of those games do you see this guy as being the ANSWER for the Texans?
People get caught up in his tangible talents (which are negligable at best when compared to Schaub) but his Xs and Os mindset is FAR behind that of Schaub - and given that we still have a chance to right the wrongs of the last few weeks, it's apparent that we need to run with our best hand. Matt Schaub is that guy, for better or worse.
Now, if Matt comes out and goes all Jacksonville-esque against the Bengals, I can say for CERTAIN that many will be quick to jump back on his bandwagon. I for one will stick with my current stance - just like it will take more than one game to push me off this wagon, it will take more than one game to get me sitting at the head of the bus. UNLESS Matt were to lead this team on an improbable SB run, I would say that next year has to be a judgement year on Matt. He's got to keep the fire going, not crumble under the bright lights, and not hit a slump at the worst possible time. Much like 2012 was the year in which he had to prove he can withstand a beating without getting hurt (which he DID, in a year where he was beaten on pretty badly) 2013 is going to be about how he handles himself when the city and the team have all eyes on him. If he can make it, then you keep him. If there is a single indication that he will falter, THEN you hand the reigns to someone else and scale back the offense, get the max value out of Ben Tate before he walks, and look to the 2014 FA QB class and draft class to find out who will take snaps for the Texans.
It's come down to the next few games and the 2013 season. But, it's safe to say that the bandwagon for Matty Fire is quickly going ablaze. |
Im not gonna argue who should be that guy right now, I will wait for the off-season for that, and I do agree Matt should ride the season out, for better or worse, BUT
If we go into next season with Matt and no confidence that TJ could be given the reigns and keep us a playoff team, we better address this is the off-season. No way will fans be willing to let 2013 be a test run for a guy who consistently shows he cannot win against elite teams in prime time (dont give me Baltimore because the only time he has beaten them was when their defense was in shambles and our defense was embarrassed the week before and went lights out on them). The guy is shaky to begin with and when the lights are turned up he folds. Ive always said this and nothing he does, short of a super bowl, will make me change my mind.
If you want to give Matt a shot next season fine, but TJ better get his reps knowing Matt will falter again down the stretch. FYI our schedule will be hard next season. Side note, go into camp with an open competition and see how the 2 qbs perform, I bet Matt folds
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| amazingandre wrote: | | If we go into next season with Matt and no confidence that TJ could be given the reigns and keep us a playoff team, we better address this is the off-season. |
The last time I evaluated QBs in the draft was 2007, when Brady Quinn at 8 was a possibility - which was quickly shot down when Houston traded for Schaub to begin with.
I can safely say that I am reviewing over QB options this year; Mostly looking for an undervalued prospect, someone in the vein of Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick, players who are discounted because of things that shouldn't be factored into it.
Sure, Wilson is a shade over 5' 10". Does it matter when he's got a quick, high release and is able to create passing lanes with his pocket manipulation? Sure, Kaepernick played against sub level competetion and played in a gimmicky offense at Nevada. Does it change the fact that in said offense he had to make pro-level reads, had a strong and accurate arm and great athleticism?
This all being said - I can see the likes of EJ Manuel and Tyler Wilson as low valued players who present upside, players who might be discounted because of things that shouldn't be factored into the PLAYER. Manuel might find himself available in the mid-2nd/early 3rd round, but very well could be an early 1st round pick. Same thing can (and has) been said about Wilson. Both of these guys represent top 15 talent, so if they're guys who can be had in the 2nd/3rd rounds, do it.
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lumberjackchris
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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PFT's Final Power Rankings.
[Editor's note: As we end one regular season and launch a new year, the final 2012 power rankings include the resolution each franchise should make for 2013.]
1. Broncos (five first-place votes): To keep Peyton Manning in cryogenic suspension during every offseason.
2. Patriots: To finally find a deep threat who can stretch the field from the outside.
3. 49ers: To give Alex Smith his freedom.
4. Seahawks: To get what they can for Matt Flynn.
5. Falcons: To find a tight end who can replace half of Tony Gonzalez’s production and leadership.
6. Packers: To find a running back who does more than block for Aaron Rodgers and catch short passes.
7. Vikings: To find a way to use Joe Webb.
8. Redskins: To not trade Kirk Cousins, even if Kyle Shanahan becomes a head coach somewhere else.
9. Bengals: To find a defensive end who can generate huge sack numbers with all the attention paid to Geno Atkins.
10. Texans: To quit thinking Matt Schaub is a franchise quarterback.
11. Colts: To find a run-stuffing safety like Bob Sanders.
12. Ravens: To work out a deal with Joe Flacco that won’t require the use of the franchise tag.
13. Giants: To put Tom Coughlin back on the hot seat, since that’s a key ingredient to the team winning Super Bowls.
14. Bears: To finally fix the offensive line.
15. Cowboys: To finally fix the quarterback’s ability to make plays in key moments and key games.
16. Steelers: To get a running back who can move the chains consistently, and stay healthy while doing so.
17. Rams: To find a way to keep Steven Jackson, and to engage in a frank assessment of Sam Bradford.
18. Panthers: To design an offense that gets the most out of Cam Newton.
19. Saints: To develop a defense that works without the use of cash incentives.
20. Dolphins: To sign Mike Wallace.
21. Chargers: To sign Mike Wallace.
22. Bills: To sign Mike Wallace.
23. Browns: To keep the next coach/G.M. for at least five years.
24. Buccaneers: To get the most out of Josh Freeman, finally.
25. Titans: To get some playmakers on defense.
26. Jets: To find a G.M. who will work harmoniously with the head coach.
27. Cardinals: To find a quarterback who will work harmoniously with Larry Fitzgerald.
28. Lions: To find more players who will work harmoniously with the penal code.
29. Eagles: To find a coach who will finally get the players to reach their potential.
30. Raiders: To find players who have real potential.
31. Jaguars: To embrace Tebowmania, and everything that goes with it.
32. Chiefs: To spend money in search of a quarterback who can get the most out of a fairly talented roster.
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jargin
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 7038
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| amazingandre wrote: | | Grasspike wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Grasspike wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Grasspike wrote: | | Texansfan713 wrote: | | CAS22 wrote: | | Give Schaub the 2011 OL and the 2011 pass rush and we win the Super Bowl. Things just are not the same this year and Schaub is not a good enough QB to make up for the OL deficiencies. It's on Rick to find a way to shore up the line this offseason while also piecing the defense back together. It is going to be very tough. |
It's also on him to make sure he gets another weapon to go with Andre too. It's obvious Walter isn't a number 2 WR and receiving threat. IDC if he can block well or not. |
Agreed. The talent level on offense slipped this year, and though Brooks, Ben Jones, Posey, and Martin are likely to improve their second years, offense still needs to be a focus in this year's draft. As many "holes" as there are on defense, the D is still more productive than offense at this point and the talent level on O has the potential to fade fast. I would not be opposed at all to drafting a RT in the first and a RB in the 2nd. |
This is a weak argument, there are guys running open and schaub is simply missing them....unless he finds the little mojo he once had, no wr will help this team |
The little mojo he once had? The guy led the league in passing yards one year with the corpse of Steve Slaton as the primary RB... |
get over it, it was A LONG TIME AGO in this league, he is garbage
why don't we sign David Carr, he won his first game ever, GOAT |
I couldn't come up with a weaker argument than that if I tried. The fact is, Schaub is a borderline Pro Bowl QB who plays well in this system. He's been consistently good since he got here. I know we all want a QB with a laser-sighted, heat-seeking missile launcher of an arm with the football mind of Vince Lombardi, but the fact is we should appreciate the fact we have one of the top 10 QB's in the game who will put the team in position to win. That's more than most of the teams in the league can say... |
but the point remains, he has progressively gotten worse, still doesn't show up in big games and cannot carry this offense to a win if our run game doesn't control the game.....I agree we have no choice, let him run the playoffs and see what happens. BUT if/when he falls on his face in the wild card we better come up with a plan B as an organization |
Now this is just absurd. How, in a 12-4 season, the best season in franchise history, did Matt Schaub get worse? Especially when you consider that he had the greatest statistical game of his career and lead us to a 11-1 record through the first 12 games? Please explain.
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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Jargin if you don't agree with what Im saying fine, but Ive stated in this thread NUMEROUS times why he has gotten worse, why he sucks and what my plan would be to replac him, if you don't agree thats fine, but don't tell me to explain something I already have.....use common sense and read the thread
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EliteTexan80
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| amazingandre wrote: | | Jargin if you don't agree with what Im saying fine, but Ive stated in this thread NUMEROUS times why he has gotten worse, why he sucks and what my plan would be to replac him, if you don't agree thats fine, but don't tell me to explain something I already have.....use common sense and read the thread |
I'm not saying I don't agree with your statement - my stance alone, after years of supporting the guy says we might be on the same wavelength for once - but I will also echo jargin's statement, in that "progressively worse" might be an overstatement.
When I hear that - progressively worse - I think of a 6-8 game stretch in which Matt has looked bad. Truth is, guy had four bad games. That's a lot of games, yes. However, these things happen - I'm sure we can look over the career game-by-game stats of ANY QB in the NFL, past or present, and find a similar sample set of a string of 3-4-5 games where they looked less than stellar. Heck, the infallable Peyton Manning had a four game stretch in his last year as a Colt where he averaged 3 INTs - not THREW 3 INTs, but AVERAGED 3 INTs.
QB in the NFL is a fickle career like that. Guys hit rough patches, doesn't matter if your name is Matt Schaub, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, John Elway, Kurt Warner, Dan Marino, Joe Montana...whatever. No QB is immune to that. Now...the good ones eventually find their ways to their expectations; They settle back in, and it's as if nothing happened. The REALLY good ones step their game up, start to look better than they had prior to their slumps, just start to elevate their game as well as the perception around 'em. The GREAT QBs start to look like superhumans, really add to the legacy they're destined to end with. The bad QBs start to spiral out of control...and ultimately, out of a job.
This Saturday will tell us if Matt is good, REALLY good, GREAT...or bad. Right now it can go either way, and unless you build a flux capacitor and steal some plutonium from some Libyian terrorists from Hill Valley, nobody can see what direction Mr. Matthew Rutledge Schaub will go.
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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| EliteTexan80 wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Jargin if you don't agree with what Im saying fine, but Ive stated in this thread NUMEROUS times why he has gotten worse, why he sucks and what my plan would be to replac him, if you don't agree thats fine, but don't tell me to explain something I already have.....use common sense and read the thread |
I'm not saying I don't agree with your statement - my stance alone, after years of supporting the guy says we might be on the same wavelength for once - but I will also echo jargin's statement, in that "progressively worse" might be an overstatement.
When I hear that - progressively worse - I think of a 6-8 game stretch in which Matt has looked bad. Truth is, guy had four bad games. That's a lot of games, yes. However, these things happen - I'm sure we can look over the career game-by-game stats of ANY QB in the NFL, past or present, and find a similar sample set of a string of 3-4-5 games where they looked less than stellar. Heck, the infallable Peyton Manning had a four game stretch in his last year as a Colt where he averaged 3 INTs - not THREW 3 INTs, but AVERAGED 3 INTs.
QB in the NFL is a fickle career like that. Guys hit rough patches, doesn't matter if your name is Matt Schaub, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, John Elway, Kurt Warner, Dan Marino, Joe Montana...whatever. No QB is immune to that. Now...the good ones eventually find their ways to their expectations; They settle back in, and it's as if nothing happened. The REALLY good ones step their game up, start to look better than they had prior to their slumps, just start to elevate their game as well as the perception around 'em. The GREAT QBs start to look like superhumans, really add to the legacy they're destined to end with. The bad QBs start to spiral out of control...and ultimately, out of a job.
This Saturday will tell us if Matt is good, REALLY good, GREAT...or bad. Right now it can go either way, and unless you build a flux capacitor and steal some plutonium from some Libyian terrorists from Hill Valley, nobody can see what direction Mr. Matthew Rutledge Schaub will go. |
Well the problem is he has always shown his deficiencies, but to Garys credit he can hide them very well. When they cannot be hid because the run game is not working they stand out like sore thumbs. Teams have realized how to stop us and I don't expect Schaub to do anything this Saturday he hasn't been doing already, either AF carries us to a win with our defense, or we lose.
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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Just to show you how pointless stats are with Schaub, 50% of his yards came from YAC vs the Bengals.....
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Marco79
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| amazingandre wrote: | | Just to show you how pointless stats are with Schaub, 50% of his yards came from YAC vs the Bengals..... |
And in 38 throws i believe he threw 2 over 10 yards. Captain Checkdown. But ill take it he didnt try to force anything I am glad he knows his limitations.
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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Marco79 wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Just to show you how pointless stats are with Schaub, 50% of his yards came from YAC vs the Bengals..... |
And in 38 throws i believe he threw 2 over 10 yards. Captain Checkdown. But ill take it he didnt try to force anything I am glad he knows his limitations. |
Yea, but that won't work in New England
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amazingandre
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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and here is a sexy pick of Schaubs thought process..... , the pick 6
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kenney
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| amazingandre wrote: | and here is a sexy pick of Schaubs thought process..... , the pick 6
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To be fair, I wouldn't have thrown it to Kevin Walter, either.
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