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When will we finally admit Jay isn't it?
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Is Jay the answer at QB?

Yes

89%

[ 25 ]

10%

[ 3 ]

Total Votes : 28

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incognito_man

Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 40972
Location: Madison

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:04 pm Post subject:

You would be a better team with Alex Smith IMO.

He's a great fit for your style. I hope you don't ditch Cutler and acquire him - but it would be a great move if you did.

Safe, smart football. Would fit your defense perfectly.

Nads786

Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 4632

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject:

incognito_man wrote:

Thats not going to get it done in the NFL anymore. The game is way to QB and offense driven. Hence why Coach Haburgh has Colin Kap as the QB.

Being a game manager is not good enough anymore.
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Nads786

Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 4632

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject:

Pack4life7 wrote:

Badger75 wrote:

Lets try a simple experiment.

Switch Jay Cutler and Aaron Rogers. How long will Rogers thrive with the Bears O-line and WR's?

Cutler might need to be more judicious with his passes, but then the Packers line might give him the time. The WR's might give him the luxury of frequent completions.

Cutler has yet to operate behind an NFL caliber line with two+ NFL WR's. Wink

In 2012

Cutler sacked 36 times

Rodgers sacked 46 times

Since 2008 when Aaron started no Qb has been sacked more. Wana try again?

A lot of those sacks are on Aaron Rodgers though he simply refuses to throw picks (which is a good thing).

In fact I do remember the Oline and him sitting down during your superbowl run pretty much calling him out? Is that correct? Or it may have been during the prior year.

I'm not suggesting your Oline isn't terrible it is but Rodgers is at fault. I'd rather have him take sacks then throw picks tho
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TytybearsFan21

Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 22173
Location: the mitten

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject:

incognito_man wrote:

Better choices, less picks, but doesnt pout enough.
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Nads786

Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 4632

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject:

My take is we took a QB who had a lot of promise and turned him into a pile of crap.

He never threw more than 3 ints in a game til he came to the Bears and was a top 3 QB in passing yards.

Now hes a shell of his former self, willing to accept games where he throws for 150 yards.

When he came to Chicago there was a legit debate about who was the better QB Rodgers or Cutler. 4 years later its not even close to a question.

I gotta say I'm pretty bitter about it, but it shows how poorly this organization has been ran and how idiotic we have been to think the QB was the only missing component.

At least I'm a Bulls fan Smile

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Superman(DH23)

Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 19907
Location: Abdi on the sick sig

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:08 pm Post subject:

ak06max wrote:

Ron Turner,Mike Martz and Mike Tice is 3. It keeps getting worse as the hire go on. There is a reason everyone turned down the job no one wanted to work for Lovie. Im done we will see who our next is to make it the 4th. Turner was JA s choice I know but Cutler with 4 OCs since he joined the Bears is not good for Cutlers development. Tice should of been demoted to O line coach and Bates move to OC calling the plays that would of put a little credit back to Lovie he is stubborn and cant make changes on the fly.

Ron Turner was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC, not Lovie's hire. Lovie hired Martz (after being turned down by everyone b/c of the uncertainty at the time, not b/c nobody wanted to work for one of the most respected coaches in the NFL, in fact, one of those who turned the job down is currently our QB coach.) and Tice (who everyone in the world thought was a good choice for OC). So now Lovie is supposed to make coordinator changes in a new offense mid season, b/c yeah that would certainly work Rolling Eyes

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incognito_man

Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 40972
Location: Madison

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject:

Nads786 wrote:

incognito_man wrote:

Thats not going to get it done in the NFL anymore. The game is way to QB and offense driven. Hence why Coach Haburgh has Colin Kap as the QB.

Being a game manager is not good enough anymore.

I don't see Alex Smith as a game manager. He can make the throws necessary to win a championship without question. He's pretty underrated. Was averaging 8.0 YPA before getting hurt. Also had a 6.0% TD% (compared to Cutler's 4.4% and 6.9 YPA).

He's just an overall better QB IMO. Plus his best traits fit your brand of ball to a T. I'm surprised more of you wouldn't be in favor of bringing him in. No idea what Cutler's contract situation is, however.

Bowler1215

Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 5809
Location: Illinois

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:09 am Post subject:

Jay may be a part of the problem, but the bigger issues are:

Constantly changing OCs, making Jay learn new systems
Poor play calling
Mediocre at best O-line since who knows when
Few options at WR, RB, TE B Marshall and Forte come to mind.
Bennett greatly under used
Hester is not WR
Davis has butter fingers
Jeffery is still learning and him missing games due to injury hasnt helped him

My biggest issue with Jay is I constantly see him try to make something out of nothing. I dont see him throw the ball away all that much.
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ChicagoAl

Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 8436

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:21 am Post subject: Re: When will we finally admit Jay isn't it?

Sr7252 wrote:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/9597/jay-cutler

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14881/russell-wilson (a 4TH ROUND pick for Seattle)

And keep in mind SEA O line isn't that great nor do they have a B. Marsh.

Maybe you guys are sick of me bashing Jay, I apologize. I swear I'm not trolling, but I realize now there's issue at QB also. But secretly I want to be proven wrong lol.

No one would profit more from a new Head Coach than Cutler. He needs a WHOLE Head Coach not HALF a Head Coach such as Smith. Being an alleged defensive mastermind is not enough to win the Super Bowl. We need a coach who can spot and evaluate offensive talent who can create new offensive scheme as well as defensive ones.

Sun Tzu says Invincibility lies in the defense; VICTORY in the ATTACK.

ChicagoAl

Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 8436

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:25 am Post subject:

Madmike90 wrote:

For me when the Bears aren’t top 8 in QB sacks and top 6 in QB hits will be the first time we can have a clear view of what we really have in Jay…no one in the NFL has the combination of arm strength and accuracy that Jay has when he is able to set his feet and throw off a solid base…until we can add some talent on the Oline to give him the time to do so more often we are never going to know…have to improve the protection of Jay…not replace him.

While I would keep Jay here next year, I don't think he is particularly accurate. Certainly not in the category of the Super QBs. Could he win us a Super Bowl? Yep. But only with coaches smart enough to know when to use the QB Sneak.

ChicagoAl

Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 8436

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:33 am Post subject:

Superman(DH23) wrote:

ak06max wrote:

topwop1 wrote:

Look, I understand some of the frustration that people may have with Cutler and his wildly inconsistent play, but he is far from the problem with this team on offense. While he does make a lot of boneheaded decisions at times there is no denying that Cutler is a special talent and that the Bears would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over him. Please tell me who's out there or who will be available this off season that will be an upgrade over him?

I think the main reason we have yet to see Cutler truly blossom during his tenure in Chicago is because he has constantly been surrounded with poor talent on the offensive line, receiver (minus this year) and bad offensive schemes, not to mention the instability of having to go through 3 different offensive coordinators in four years.

Even though I haven't been impressed with Tice's play calling in his first year as OC, I assume he and the rest of the offense would only benefit from having another year together; however, if the Bears fail to make the playoffs then I think that Emery should just clean house and start fresh with a new coaching staff. This would bring stability for the next 3 or so years by allowing Cutler and co. to develop without having to worry about changing to another scheme any time soon. That's my two cents.

Playoffs or not I think Emery should make this happen. We need a clean slate start rebuilding after the JA regime. He left us a big pile of you know what that will keep Emery shoveling for quite some time

So let me get this straight, you want to get rid of a coach who has, in your scenario, made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and likely would have been 3 straight years had we not lost our starting QB and RB for the final 6 and 5 games respectively? While you are admitting that the staff has had an inferior roster to work with? Sure 1 out of 5 years if it happens is bad and gives the Lovie haters at least a legit argument, but 2 out of 3 (and again likely would have been 3 straight) is a completely different story.

I'm all for demoting Tice back to OL (precedent was set w/ Babich) and either promoting Bates to OC or going out and finding another experienced playcaller who fits w/ Jay, but cleaning house? When you have a team that needs to win now? Doesn't make much sense, nor would it happen.

When you have a coach who cannot win now, it makes perfect sense to get one who can. Now the team make stumble into the playoffs but their record indicates beating a winning team is near impossible of them. So a quick, perhaps even humiliating exit will not allow Smith to keep his job. If they win a game then the probably is he will not get extended and will stay as per his contract particularly if the Bears cannot get who they want.

If you want to talk about demotions then the Bears should get a new Head Coach and demote Smith to DC ala Babich if the expected quick exit occurs. It is still hilarious to watch the Defenders of mediocrity credit Smith for anything good the defense does and put all the resposibility for the incompetent offense on any shoulder but his.

ChicagoAl

Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 8436

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:40 am Post subject:

GOGRIESE wrote:

topwop1 wrote:

GOGRIESE wrote:

Superman(DH23) wrote:

ak06max wrote:

topwop1 wrote:

Id be fine with that and I think the chances of Emery cleaning house in that scenario are very unlikely. I dont see Lovie getting an extension though and some have speculated he would resign instead of becoming a lame duck head coach. But I would be fine with looking for a different OC and keeping Lovie to play out his contract if that is indeed what happened.

That would just seem like even more of a backwards move. In your scenario say they hire a new OC and let Lovie play out his last year on his contract as head coach and the Bears proceed to miss the playoffs. Then what?

Lovie is then most likely not retained as head coach and Emery hires a new coaching staff who would likely want to bring in their own guys at OC, DC etc etc. That would then be Jay's 5th offensive coordinator in only a matter of years. That's a sure recipe for failure and a waste of talent.

It's real simple for Emery. He either has to commit to another few years of Lovie being the head coach here and keeping things continuous or he needs to start fresh and hire a whole new coaching staff. No more coordinator/position coach changes. Lovie's had enough of those already. How many more chances do you give the guy?

You know what side Im on in this Lovie debate. But the scenario Superman just pointed out is the more likely scenario if we make the playoffs.

Emery is not going to get all hearts-a-flutter should we stumble into the playoffs only to be outclassed, as winning teams invariably do against us. The only way he is extended is to get to the Championship and, if it is against GB, and we lose, even that may not get an extension. Particularly when he would know that game should have been here but for two months of incompetence and the loss of two games that should have been won.

ChicagoAl

Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 8436

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:42 am Post subject:

GOGRIESE wrote:

Superman(DH23) wrote:

GOGRIESE wrote:

Superman(DH23) wrote:

ak06max wrote:

topwop1 wrote:

I expect that if the Bears make the playoffs Lovie will be given a 2 year ext again.

With Virginia McCaskey still in those discussions this wouldnt surprise me.

This is another of those persistent myths. Virginia is not making any of these decisions. No one is going to save Smith when Emery decides he has to go.

ChicagoAl

Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 8436

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:43 am Post subject:

topwop1 wrote:

GOGRIESE wrote:

topwop1 wrote:

GOGRIESE wrote:

Superman(DH23) wrote:

ak06max wrote:

topwop1 wrote:

You know what side Im on in this Lovie debate. But the scenario Superman just pointed out is the more likely scenario if we make the playoffs.

If they make the playoffs then my gut tells me that Emery won't just let Lovie go into his last season as a lame duck. In my opinion he'll either fire him (if they fall short of winning the Superbowl) or he'll extend him for another couple of years. The Bears are not that kind of organization and you can bet that the McCaskey's wouldn't go for a lame duck coach situation with their beloved Lovie.

Emery has a free hand in this decision.

ChicagoAl

Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 8436

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:47 am Post subject:

Superman(DH23) wrote:

ak06max wrote:

Superman(DH23) wrote:

ak06max wrote:

topwop1 wrote:

So you want a playoff team? A coach that will get you to the playoffs then get out coached and lose. I think the players want rings and a trophy. I could be mistaken. We have a coach that cant beat the Packers and ultimately you kind of need to compete in your division if you ever want to get to the Bowl If you just want a playoff team thats ok. but to get to that next step we need to beat the packs so we are not hoping every year for other teams to lose and win so we have that slight chance to make it.

Well to win the SuperBowl you have to get to the dance. So yes I want a playoff team. As for being outcoached in the playoffs when did this happen? In 2005?? Yes him choosing to cover Steve Smith w/ his best CB w/ safety help over the top hurt the Bears massively, but what was the alternative? 2006, oh you must mean when Peyton Manning was all Peyton Manning and Rex Grossman, was, well Rex Grossman. Yep Lovie was sure outcoached that day (by his best friend and mentor). Oh I know you mean 2010 when the Packers scored 14 pts in a must win game to even get in the playoffs (they had been avg 30+ over the previous 10 games), only to then come in and score 14 pts on offense again 1 week after putting up 40+ on the Falcons. Lovie's playoff record is 3-3, only going 1 and done once. 2 NFCCGs in 3 playoff attempts is a pretty damn good record in the playoffs. Let's say the Bears make the NFCCG again this year but lose, you now have a coach who has made 3 NFCCGs in 4 playoff trips but hasn't won a SuperBowl. Is that a bad coach? How many coaches do you think are better?

TWO NFCC games in 9 years is not impressive by any means and does not have coaches retained with most teams. Ditka had 7 of 10 years in the playoffs and he was fired. Smith is nowhere near that record and would have been shown the door in most cities.

He doesn't have Angelo to protect him now.

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