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When will we finally admit Jay isn't it?
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Is Jay the answer at QB?
Yes
89%
 89%  [ 25 ]
No
10%
 10%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 28

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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Look, I understand some of the frustration that people may have with Cutler and his wildly inconsistent play, but he is far from the problem with this team on offense. While he does make a lot of boneheaded decisions at times there is no denying that Cutler is a special talent and that the Bears would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over him. Please tell me who's out there or who will be available this off season that will be an upgrade over him?

I think the main reason we have yet to see Cutler truly blossom during his tenure in Chicago is because he has constantly been surrounded with poor talent on the offensive line, receiver (minus this year) and bad offensive schemes, not to mention the instability of having to go through 3 different offensive coordinators in four years.

Even though I haven't been impressed with Tice's play calling in his first year as OC, I assume he and the rest of the offense would only benefit from having another year together; however, if the Bears fail to make the playoffs then I think that Emery should just clean house and start fresh with a new coaching staff. This would bring stability for the next 3 or so years by allowing Cutler and co. to develop without having to worry about changing to another scheme any time soon. That's my two cents.


Playoffs or not I think Emery should make this happen. We need a clean slate start rebuilding after the JA regime. He left us a big pile of you know what that will keep Emery shoveling for quite some time
So let me get this straight, you want to get rid of a coach who has, in your scenario, made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and likely would have been 3 straight years had we not lost our starting QB and RB for the final 6 and 5 games respectively? While you are admitting that the staff has had an inferior roster to work with? Sure 1 out of 5 years if it happens is bad and gives the Lovie haters at least a legit argument, but 2 out of 3 (and again likely would have been 3 straight) is a completely different story.

I'm all for demoting Tice back to OL (precedent was set w/ Babich) and either promoting Bates to OC or going out and finding another experienced playcaller who fits w/ Jay, but cleaning house? When you have a team that needs to win now? Doesn't make much sense, nor would it happen.


Id be fine with that and I think the chances of Emery cleaning house in that scenario are very unlikely. I dont see Lovie getting an extension though and some have speculated he would resign instead of becoming a lame duck head coach. But I would be fine with looking for a different OC and keeping Lovie to play out his contract if that is indeed what happened.


That would just seem like even more of a backwards move. In your scenario say they hire a new OC and let Lovie play out his last year on his contract as head coach and the Bears proceed to miss the playoffs. Then what?

Lovie is then most likely not retained as head coach and Emery hires a new coaching staff who would likely want to bring in their own guys at OC, DC etc etc. That would then be Jay's 5th offensive coordinator in only a matter of years. That's a sure recipe for failure and a waste of talent.

It's real simple for Emery. He either has to commit to another few years of Lovie being the head coach here and keeping things continuous or he needs to start fresh and hire a whole new coaching staff. No more coordinator/position coach changes. Lovie's had enough of those already. How many more chances do you give the guy?


You know what side Im on in this Lovie debate. But the scenario Superman just pointed out is the more likely scenario if we make the playoffs.
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 18297
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Look, I understand some of the frustration that people may have with Cutler and his wildly inconsistent play, but he is far from the problem with this team on offense. While he does make a lot of boneheaded decisions at times there is no denying that Cutler is a special talent and that the Bears would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over him. Please tell me who's out there or who will be available this off season that will be an upgrade over him?

I think the main reason we have yet to see Cutler truly blossom during his tenure in Chicago is because he has constantly been surrounded with poor talent on the offensive line, receiver (minus this year) and bad offensive schemes, not to mention the instability of having to go through 3 different offensive coordinators in four years.

Even though I haven't been impressed with Tice's play calling in his first year as OC, I assume he and the rest of the offense would only benefit from having another year together; however, if the Bears fail to make the playoffs then I think that Emery should just clean house and start fresh with a new coaching staff. This would bring stability for the next 3 or so years by allowing Cutler and co. to develop without having to worry about changing to another scheme any time soon. That's my two cents.


Playoffs or not I think Emery should make this happen. We need a clean slate start rebuilding after the JA regime. He left us a big pile of you know what that will keep Emery shoveling for quite some time
So let me get this straight, you want to get rid of a coach who has, in your scenario, made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and likely would have been 3 straight years had we not lost our starting QB and RB for the final 6 and 5 games respectively? While you are admitting that the staff has had an inferior roster to work with? Sure 1 out of 5 years if it happens is bad and gives the Lovie haters at least a legit argument, but 2 out of 3 (and again likely would have been 3 straight) is a completely different story.

I'm all for demoting Tice back to OL (precedent was set w/ Babich) and either promoting Bates to OC or going out and finding another experienced playcaller who fits w/ Jay, but cleaning house? When you have a team that needs to win now? Doesn't make much sense, nor would it happen.


Id be fine with that and I think the chances of Emery cleaning house in that scenario are very unlikely. I dont see Lovie getting an extension though and some have speculated he would resign instead of becoming a lame duck head coach. But I would be fine with looking for a different OC and keeping Lovie to play out his contract if that is indeed what happened.
I expect that if the Bears make the playoffs Lovie will be given a 2 year ext again.


With Virginia McCaskey still in those discussions this wouldnt surprise me.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Look, I understand some of the frustration that people may have with Cutler and his wildly inconsistent play, but he is far from the problem with this team on offense. While he does make a lot of boneheaded decisions at times there is no denying that Cutler is a special talent and that the Bears would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over him. Please tell me who's out there or who will be available this off season that will be an upgrade over him?

I think the main reason we have yet to see Cutler truly blossom during his tenure in Chicago is because he has constantly been surrounded with poor talent on the offensive line, receiver (minus this year) and bad offensive schemes, not to mention the instability of having to go through 3 different offensive coordinators in four years.

Even though I haven't been impressed with Tice's play calling in his first year as OC, I assume he and the rest of the offense would only benefit from having another year together; however, if the Bears fail to make the playoffs then I think that Emery should just clean house and start fresh with a new coaching staff. This would bring stability for the next 3 or so years by allowing Cutler and co. to develop without having to worry about changing to another scheme any time soon. That's my two cents.


Playoffs or not I think Emery should make this happen. We need a clean slate start rebuilding after the JA regime. He left us a big pile of you know what that will keep Emery shoveling for quite some time
So let me get this straight, you want to get rid of a coach who has, in your scenario, made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and likely would have been 3 straight years had we not lost our starting QB and RB for the final 6 and 5 games respectively? While you are admitting that the staff has had an inferior roster to work with? Sure 1 out of 5 years if it happens is bad and gives the Lovie haters at least a legit argument, but 2 out of 3 (and again likely would have been 3 straight) is a completely different story.

I'm all for demoting Tice back to OL (precedent was set w/ Babich) and either promoting Bates to OC or going out and finding another experienced playcaller who fits w/ Jay, but cleaning house? When you have a team that needs to win now? Doesn't make much sense, nor would it happen.


Id be fine with that and I think the chances of Emery cleaning house in that scenario are very unlikely. I dont see Lovie getting an extension though and some have speculated he would resign instead of becoming a lame duck head coach. But I would be fine with looking for a different OC and keeping Lovie to play out his contract if that is indeed what happened.


That would just seem like even more of a backwards move. In your scenario say they hire a new OC and let Lovie play out his last year on his contract as head coach and the Bears proceed to miss the playoffs. Then what?

Lovie is then most likely not retained as head coach and Emery hires a new coaching staff who would likely want to bring in their own guys at OC, DC etc etc. That would then be Jay's 5th offensive coordinator in only a matter of years. That's a sure recipe for failure and a waste of talent.

It's real simple for Emery. He either has to commit to another few years of Lovie being the head coach here and keeping things continuous or he needs to start fresh and hire a whole new coaching staff. No more coordinator/position coach changes. Lovie's had enough of those already. How many more chances do you give the guy?


You know what side Im on in this Lovie debate. But the scenario Superman just pointed out is the more likely scenario if we make the playoffs.


If they make the playoffs then my gut tells me that Emery won't just let Lovie go into his last season as a lame duck. In my opinion he'll either fire him (if they fall short of winning the Superbowl) or he'll extend him for another couple of years. The Bears are not that kind of organization and you can bet that the McCaskey's wouldn't go for a lame duck coach situation with their beloved Lovie.
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GOGRIESE


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Look, I understand some of the frustration that people may have with Cutler and his wildly inconsistent play, but he is far from the problem with this team on offense. While he does make a lot of boneheaded decisions at times there is no denying that Cutler is a special talent and that the Bears would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over him. Please tell me who's out there or who will be available this off season that will be an upgrade over him?

I think the main reason we have yet to see Cutler truly blossom during his tenure in Chicago is because he has constantly been surrounded with poor talent on the offensive line, receiver (minus this year) and bad offensive schemes, not to mention the instability of having to go through 3 different offensive coordinators in four years.

Even though I haven't been impressed with Tice's play calling in his first year as OC, I assume he and the rest of the offense would only benefit from having another year together; however, if the Bears fail to make the playoffs then I think that Emery should just clean house and start fresh with a new coaching staff. This would bring stability for the next 3 or so years by allowing Cutler and co. to develop without having to worry about changing to another scheme any time soon. That's my two cents.


Playoffs or not I think Emery should make this happen. We need a clean slate start rebuilding after the JA regime. He left us a big pile of you know what that will keep Emery shoveling for quite some time
So let me get this straight, you want to get rid of a coach who has, in your scenario, made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and likely would have been 3 straight years had we not lost our starting QB and RB for the final 6 and 5 games respectively? While you are admitting that the staff has had an inferior roster to work with? Sure 1 out of 5 years if it happens is bad and gives the Lovie haters at least a legit argument, but 2 out of 3 (and again likely would have been 3 straight) is a completely different story.

I'm all for demoting Tice back to OL (precedent was set w/ Babich) and either promoting Bates to OC or going out and finding another experienced playcaller who fits w/ Jay, but cleaning house? When you have a team that needs to win now? Doesn't make much sense, nor would it happen.


Id be fine with that and I think the chances of Emery cleaning house in that scenario are very unlikely. I dont see Lovie getting an extension though and some have speculated he would resign instead of becoming a lame duck head coach. But I would be fine with looking for a different OC and keeping Lovie to play out his contract if that is indeed what happened.


That would just seem like even more of a backwards move. In your scenario say they hire a new OC and let Lovie play out his last year on his contract as head coach and the Bears proceed to miss the playoffs. Then what?

Lovie is then most likely not retained as head coach and Emery hires a new coaching staff who would likely want to bring in their own guys at OC, DC etc etc. That would then be Jay's 5th offensive coordinator in only a matter of years. That's a sure recipe for failure and a waste of talent.

It's real simple for Emery. He either has to commit to another few years of Lovie being the head coach here and keeping things continuous or he needs to start fresh and hire a whole new coaching staff. No more coordinator/position coach changes. Lovie's had enough of those already. How many more chances do you give the guy?


You know what side Im on in this Lovie debate. But the scenario Superman just pointed out is the more likely scenario if we make the playoffs.


If they make the playoffs then my gut tells me that Emery won't just let Lovie go into his last season as a lame duck. In my opinion he'll either fire him (if they fall short of winning the Superbowl) or he'll extend him for another couple of years. The Bears are not that kind of organization and you can bet that the McCaskey's wouldn't go for a lame duck coach situation with their beloved Lovie.


His scenario with the 2 year extension is what Im talking about right now.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ak06max wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Look, I understand some of the frustration that people may have with Cutler and his wildly inconsistent play, but he is far from the problem with this team on offense. While he does make a lot of boneheaded decisions at times there is no denying that Cutler is a special talent and that the Bears would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over him. Please tell me who's out there or who will be available this off season that will be an upgrade over him?

I think the main reason we have yet to see Cutler truly blossom during his tenure in Chicago is because he has constantly been surrounded with poor talent on the offensive line, receiver (minus this year) and bad offensive schemes, not to mention the instability of having to go through 3 different offensive coordinators in four years.

Even though I haven't been impressed with Tice's play calling in his first year as OC, I assume he and the rest of the offense would only benefit from having another year together; however, if the Bears fail to make the playoffs then I think that Emery should just clean house and start fresh with a new coaching staff. This would bring stability for the next 3 or so years by allowing Cutler and co. to develop without having to worry about changing to another scheme any time soon. That's my two cents.


Playoffs or not I think Emery should make this happen. We need a clean slate start rebuilding after the JA regime. He left us a big pile of you know what that will keep Emery shoveling for quite some time
So let me get this straight, you want to get rid of a coach who has, in your scenario, made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and likely would have been 3 straight years had we not lost our starting QB and RB for the final 6 and 5 games respectively? While you are admitting that the staff has had an inferior roster to work with? Sure 1 out of 5 years if it happens is bad and gives the Lovie haters at least a legit argument, but 2 out of 3 (and again likely would have been 3 straight) is a completely different story.

I'm all for demoting Tice back to OL (precedent was set w/ Babich) and either promoting Bates to OC or going out and finding another experienced playcaller who fits w/ Jay, but cleaning house? When you have a team that needs to win now? Doesn't make much sense, nor would it happen.



So you want a playoff team? A coach that will get you to the playoffs then get out coached and lose. I think the players want rings and a trophy. I could be mistaken. We have a coach that cant beat the Packers and ultimately you kind of need to compete in your division if you ever want to get to the Bowl If you just want a playoff team thats ok. but to get to that next step we need to beat the packs so we are not hoping every year for other teams to lose and win so we have that slight chance to make it.
Well to win the SuperBowl you have to get to the dance. So yes I want a playoff team. As for being outcoached in the playoffs when did this happen? In 2005?? Yes him choosing to cover Steve Smith w/ his best CB w/ safety help over the top hurt the Bears massively, but what was the alternative? 2006, oh you must mean when Peyton Manning was all Peyton Manning and Rex Grossman, was, well Rex Grossman. Yep Lovie was sure outcoached that day (by his best friend and mentor). Oh I know you mean 2010 when the Packers scored 14 pts in a must win game to even get in the playoffs (they had been avg 30+ over the previous 10 games), only to then come in and score 14 pts on offense again 1 week after putting up 40+ on the Falcons. Lovie's playoff record is 3-3, only going 1 and done once. 2 NFCCGs in 3 playoff attempts is a pretty damn good record in the playoffs. Let's say the Bears make the NFCCG again this year but lose, you now have a coach who has made 3 NFCCGs in 4 playoff trips but hasn't won a SuperBowl. Is that a bad coach? How many coaches do you think are better?
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Look, I understand some of the frustration that people may have with Cutler and his wildly inconsistent play, but he is far from the problem with this team on offense. While he does make a lot of boneheaded decisions at times there is no denying that Cutler is a special talent and that the Bears would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over him. Please tell me who's out there or who will be available this off season that will be an upgrade over him?

I think the main reason we have yet to see Cutler truly blossom during his tenure in Chicago is because he has constantly been surrounded with poor talent on the offensive line, receiver (minus this year) and bad offensive schemes, not to mention the instability of having to go through 3 different offensive coordinators in four years.

Even though I haven't been impressed with Tice's play calling in his first year as OC, I assume he and the rest of the offense would only benefit from having another year together; however, if the Bears fail to make the playoffs then I think that Emery should just clean house and start fresh with a new coaching staff. This would bring stability for the next 3 or so years by allowing Cutler and co. to develop without having to worry about changing to another scheme any time soon. That's my two cents.


Playoffs or not I think Emery should make this happen. We need a clean slate start rebuilding after the JA regime. He left us a big pile of you know what that will keep Emery shoveling for quite some time
So let me get this straight, you want to get rid of a coach who has, in your scenario, made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and likely would have been 3 straight years had we not lost our starting QB and RB for the final 6 and 5 games respectively? While you are admitting that the staff has had an inferior roster to work with? Sure 1 out of 5 years if it happens is bad and gives the Lovie haters at least a legit argument, but 2 out of 3 (and again likely would have been 3 straight) is a completely different story.

I'm all for demoting Tice back to OL (precedent was set w/ Babich) and either promoting Bates to OC or going out and finding another experienced playcaller who fits w/ Jay, but cleaning house? When you have a team that needs to win now? Doesn't make much sense, nor would it happen.



So you want a playoff team? A coach that will get you to the playoffs then get out coached and lose. I think the players want rings and a trophy. I could be mistaken. We have a coach that cant beat the Packers and ultimately you kind of need to compete in your division if you ever want to get to the Bowl If you just want a playoff team thats ok. but to get to that next step we need to beat the packs so we are not hoping every year for other teams to lose and win so we have that slight chance to make it.
Well to win the SuperBowl you have to get to the dance. So yes I want a playoff team. As for being outcoached in the playoffs when did this happen? In 2005?? Yes him choosing to cover Steve Smith w/ his best CB w/ safety help over the top hurt the Bears massively, but what was the alternative? 2006, oh you must mean when Peyton Manning was all Peyton Manning and Rex Grossman, was, well Rex Grossman. Yep Lovie was sure outcoached that day (by his best friend and mentor). Oh I know you mean 2010 when the Packers scored 14 pts in a must win game to even get in the playoffs (they had been avg 30+ over the previous 10 games), only to then come in and score 14 pts on offense again 1 week after putting up 40+ on the Falcons. Lovie's playoff record is 3-3, only going 1 and done once. 2 NFCCGs in 3 playoff attempts is a pretty damn good record in the playoffs. Let's say the Bears make the NFCCG again this year but lose, you now have a coach who has made 3 NFCCGs in 4 playoff trips but hasn't won a SuperBowl. Is that a bad coach? How many coaches do you think are better?


Not that I disagree with any of your comments, but do you really think that Lovie is the only coach capable right now of leading this team to be as successful as they have been? I don't believe that is true. There is a decent core here in place already.

They obviously need more pieces to add to the puzzle but I'm thinking they also need a coach that can be better than Lovie has been to get them over that hump. The defense Lovie runs here in Chicago is pretty basic. They could hire a defensive coordinator who runs a very similar scheme and I don't think much would change on defense.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Look, I understand some of the frustration that people may have with Cutler and his wildly inconsistent play, but he is far from the problem with this team on offense. While he does make a lot of boneheaded decisions at times there is no denying that Cutler is a special talent and that the Bears would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over him. Please tell me who's out there or who will be available this off season that will be an upgrade over him?

I think the main reason we have yet to see Cutler truly blossom during his tenure in Chicago is because he has constantly been surrounded with poor talent on the offensive line, receiver (minus this year) and bad offensive schemes, not to mention the instability of having to go through 3 different offensive coordinators in four years.

Even though I haven't been impressed with Tice's play calling in his first year as OC, I assume he and the rest of the offense would only benefit from having another year together; however, if the Bears fail to make the playoffs then I think that Emery should just clean house and start fresh with a new coaching staff. This would bring stability for the next 3 or so years by allowing Cutler and co. to develop without having to worry about changing to another scheme any time soon. That's my two cents.


Playoffs or not I think Emery should make this happen. We need a clean slate start rebuilding after the JA regime. He left us a big pile of you know what that will keep Emery shoveling for quite some time
So let me get this straight, you want to get rid of a coach who has, in your scenario, made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and likely would have been 3 straight years had we not lost our starting QB and RB for the final 6 and 5 games respectively? While you are admitting that the staff has had an inferior roster to work with? Sure 1 out of 5 years if it happens is bad and gives the Lovie haters at least a legit argument, but 2 out of 3 (and again likely would have been 3 straight) is a completely different story.

I'm all for demoting Tice back to OL (precedent was set w/ Babich) and either promoting Bates to OC or going out and finding another experienced playcaller who fits w/ Jay, but cleaning house? When you have a team that needs to win now? Doesn't make much sense, nor would it happen.



So you want a playoff team? A coach that will get you to the playoffs then get out coached and lose. I think the players want rings and a trophy. I could be mistaken. We have a coach that cant beat the Packers and ultimately you kind of need to compete in your division if you ever want to get to the Bowl If you just want a playoff team thats ok. but to get to that next step we need to beat the packs so we are not hoping every year for other teams to lose and win so we have that slight chance to make it.
Well to win the SuperBowl you have to get to the dance. So yes I want a playoff team. As for being outcoached in the playoffs when did this happen? In 2005?? Yes him choosing to cover Steve Smith w/ his best CB w/ safety help over the top hurt the Bears massively, but what was the alternative? 2006, oh you must mean when Peyton Manning was all Peyton Manning and Rex Grossman, was, well Rex Grossman. Yep Lovie was sure outcoached that day (by his best friend and mentor). Oh I know you mean 2010 when the Packers scored 14 pts in a must win game to even get in the playoffs (they had been avg 30+ over the previous 10 games), only to then come in and score 14 pts on offense again 1 week after putting up 40+ on the Falcons. Lovie's playoff record is 3-3, only going 1 and done once. 2 NFCCGs in 3 playoff attempts is a pretty damn good record in the playoffs. Let's say the Bears make the NFCCG again this year but lose, you now have a coach who has made 3 NFCCGs in 4 playoff trips but hasn't won a SuperBowl. Is that a bad coach? How many coaches do you think are better?


Not that I disagree with any of your comments, but do you really think that Lovie is the only coach capable right now of leading this team to be as successful as they have been? I don't believe that is true. There is a decent core here in place already.

They obviously need more pieces to add to the puzzle but I'm thinking they also need a coach that can be better than Lovie has been to get them over that hump. The defense Lovie runs here in Chicago is pretty basic. They could hire a defensive coordinator who runs a very similar scheme and I don't think much would change on defense.
I think that there are MAYBE 3-5 coaches in the NFL that are better than Lovie Smith. I think there are a lot more talented rosters. For the most part I think the people that want a coaching staff change don't even really believe that Lovie is a bad coach, but want change for the sake of change. I've been around a while, if I say Dave McGinness do you know what I'm talking about? The Bears have had 3 good coaches in their entire history, Halas, Ditka, Smith. And a whole lot of garbage.
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abdi7451


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you kidding me?!?!?!? Jay Cutler is the BEST QB in the NFL and he is without a doubt the QB for the Bears.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets say that you decide Jay Cutler "Isn't It".

What is your next step? Nobody in FA is better than him and the Bears D alone will probably prevent them from picking inside the Top 10 for the next couple of years if Lovie stays.

Short of falling in love with a prospect in an upcoming draft and pulling a RG3 like trade giving up multiple high picks for multiple years (rarely a good idea) the Bears are better off just giving Jay a 3 year deal and hoping he improves.

In this league you could do much worse than Cutler even when he sucks, and he has sucked hard this year.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
I think that there are MAYBE 3-5 coaches in the NFL that are better than Lovie Smith. I think there are a lot more talented rosters. For the most part I think the people that want a coaching staff change don't even really believe that Lovie is a bad coach, but want change for the sake of change.


I'd agree with this big time. Lovie is criminally underrated in Chicago and by fans across the league. Great defensive mind who has done more with less than most coaches in the NFL.

Guys I'd rate clearly above him

Bill Belichick
Mike McCarthy
Sean Payton
Jeff Fisher
Too early to tell about Harbaugh in SF but I'm a huge fan. Despite that fact that he's crazy...

Guys who are in Lovie's league and it is a toss up
Mike Tomlin
John Fox (Eh I don't even feel good about this one)

Other than that, I'd take Lovie over every coach in the NFL. Has had overall average talent and not exactly elite coordinators who have gone on to do great things other than Rivera.

If the Bears miss the playoffs this year, firing Lovie would be a gigantic mistake.
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Badger75


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets try a simple experiment.

Switch Jay Cutler and Aaron Rogers. How long will Rogers thrive with the Bears O-line and WR's?

Cutler might need to be more judicious with his passes, but then the Packers line might give him the time. The WR's might give him the luxury of frequent completions.

Cutler has yet to operate behind an NFL caliber line with two+ NFL WR's. Wink
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Pack4life7


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badger75 wrote:
Lets try a simple experiment.

Switch Jay Cutler and Aaron Rogers. How long will Rogers thrive with the Bears O-line and WR's?

Cutler might need to be more judicious with his passes, but then the Packers line might give him the time. The WR's might give him the luxury of frequent completions.

Cutler has yet to operate behind an NFL caliber line with two+ NFL WR's. Wink


In 2012

Cutler sacked 36 times

Rodgers sacked 46 times

Since 2008 when Aaron started no Qb has been sacked more. Wana try again?
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ak06max


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Look, I understand some of the frustration that people may have with Cutler and his wildly inconsistent play, but he is far from the problem with this team on offense. While he does make a lot of boneheaded decisions at times there is no denying that Cutler is a special talent and that the Bears would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over him. Please tell me who's out there or who will be available this off season that will be an upgrade over him?

I think the main reason we have yet to see Cutler truly blossom during his tenure in Chicago is because he has constantly been surrounded with poor talent on the offensive line, receiver (minus this year) and bad offensive schemes, not to mention the instability of having to go through 3 different offensive coordinators in four years.


Even though I haven't been impressed with Tice's play calling in his first year as OC, I assume he and the rest of the offense would only benefit from having another year together; however, if the Bears fail to make the playoffs then I think that Emery should just clean house and start fresh with a new coaching staff. This would bring stability for the next 3 or so years by allowing Cutler and co. to develop without having to worry about changing to another scheme any time soon. That's my two cents.


Playoffs or not I think Emery should make this happen. We need a clean slate start rebuilding after the JA regime. He left us a big pile of you know what that will keep Emery shoveling for quite some time
So let me get this straight, you want to get rid of a coach who has, in your scenario, made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and likely would have been 3 straight years had we not lost our starting QB and RB for the final 6 and 5 games respectively? While you are admitting that the staff has had an inferior roster to work with? Sure 1 out of 5 years if it happens is bad and gives the Lovie haters at least a legit argument, but 2 out of 3 (and again likely would have been 3 straight) is a completely different story.

I'm all for demoting Tice back to OL (precedent was set w/ Babich) and either promoting Bates to OC or going out and finding another experienced playcaller who fits w/ Jay, but cleaning house? When you have a team that needs to win now? Doesn't make much sense, nor would it happen.



So you want a playoff team? A coach that will get you to the playoffs then get out coached and lose. I think the players want rings and a trophy. I could be mistaken. We have a coach that cant beat the Packers and ultimately you kind of need to compete in your division if you ever want to get to the Bowl If you just want a playoff team thats ok. but to get to that next step we need to beat the packs so we are not hoping every year for other teams to lose and win so we have that slight chance to make it.
Well to win the SuperBowl you have to get to the dance. So yes I want a playoff team. As for being outcoached in the playoffs when did this happen? In 2005?? Yes him choosing to cover Steve Smith w/ his best CB w/ safety help over the top hurt the Bears massively, but what was the alternative? 2006, oh you must mean when Peyton Manning was all Peyton Manning and Rex Grossman, was, well Rex Grossman. Yep Lovie was sure outcoached that day (by his best friend and mentor). Oh I know you mean 2010 when the Packers scored 14 pts in a must win game to even get in the playoffs (they had been avg 30+ over the previous 10 games), only to then come in and score 14 pts on offense again 1 week after putting up 40+ on the Falcons. Lovie's playoff record is 3-3, only going 1 and done once. 2 NFCCGs in 3 playoff attempts is a pretty damn good record in the playoffs. Let's say the Bears make the NFCCG again this year but lose, you now have a coach who has made 3 NFCCGs in 4 playoff trips but hasn't won a SuperBowl. Is that a bad coach? How many coaches do you think are better?




14 points how many O coaches do we need to go through to prove Lovie cant get the right coach? Thats what is gonna get him canned. Cutler cant continue to learn new offenses every 2 years its just nonsense I would rather be playing for a 1st round by or home field advantage than just hoping a team wins or loses. We really cant do that until we can beat the Packs. What Lovies record against the packs the past 3 years? you are right tho if we get ANOTHER OC we will be ok, Lovie will pick the right one the 4th time around.
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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ak06max wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Look, I understand some of the frustration that people may have with Cutler and his wildly inconsistent play, but he is far from the problem with this team on offense. While he does make a lot of boneheaded decisions at times there is no denying that Cutler is a special talent and that the Bears would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over him. Please tell me who's out there or who will be available this off season that will be an upgrade over him?

I think the main reason we have yet to see Cutler truly blossom during his tenure in Chicago is because he has constantly been surrounded with poor talent on the offensive line, receiver (minus this year) and bad offensive schemes, not to mention the instability of having to go through 3 different offensive coordinators in four years.


Even though I haven't been impressed with Tice's play calling in his first year as OC, I assume he and the rest of the offense would only benefit from having another year together; however, if the Bears fail to make the playoffs then I think that Emery should just clean house and start fresh with a new coaching staff. This would bring stability for the next 3 or so years by allowing Cutler and co. to develop without having to worry about changing to another scheme any time soon. That's my two cents.


Playoffs or not I think Emery should make this happen. We need a clean slate start rebuilding after the JA regime. He left us a big pile of you know what that will keep Emery shoveling for quite some time
So let me get this straight, you want to get rid of a coach who has, in your scenario, made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and likely would have been 3 straight years had we not lost our starting QB and RB for the final 6 and 5 games respectively? While you are admitting that the staff has had an inferior roster to work with? Sure 1 out of 5 years if it happens is bad and gives the Lovie haters at least a legit argument, but 2 out of 3 (and again likely would have been 3 straight) is a completely different story.

I'm all for demoting Tice back to OL (precedent was set w/ Babich) and either promoting Bates to OC or going out and finding another experienced playcaller who fits w/ Jay, but cleaning house? When you have a team that needs to win now? Doesn't make much sense, nor would it happen.



So you want a playoff team? A coach that will get you to the playoffs then get out coached and lose. I think the players want rings and a trophy. I could be mistaken. We have a coach that cant beat the Packers and ultimately you kind of need to compete in your division if you ever want to get to the Bowl If you just want a playoff team thats ok. but to get to that next step we need to beat the packs so we are not hoping every year for other teams to lose and win so we have that slight chance to make it.
Well to win the SuperBowl you have to get to the dance. So yes I want a playoff team. As for being outcoached in the playoffs when did this happen? In 2005?? Yes him choosing to cover Steve Smith w/ his best CB w/ safety help over the top hurt the Bears massively, but what was the alternative? 2006, oh you must mean when Peyton Manning was all Peyton Manning and Rex Grossman, was, well Rex Grossman. Yep Lovie was sure outcoached that day (by his best friend and mentor). Oh I know you mean 2010 when the Packers scored 14 pts in a must win game to even get in the playoffs (they had been avg 30+ over the previous 10 games), only to then come in and score 14 pts on offense again 1 week after putting up 40+ on the Falcons. Lovie's playoff record is 3-3, only going 1 and done once. 2 NFCCGs in 3 playoff attempts is a pretty damn good record in the playoffs. Let's say the Bears make the NFCCG again this year but lose, you now have a coach who has made 3 NFCCGs in 4 playoff trips but hasn't won a SuperBowl. Is that a bad coach? How many coaches do you think are better?




14 points how many O coaches do we need to go through to prove Lovie cant get the right coach? Thats what is gonna get him canned. Cutler cant continue to learn new offenses every 2 years its just nonsense I would rather be playing for a 1st round by or home field advantage than just hoping a team wins or loses. We really cant do that until we can beat the Packs. What Lovies record against the packs the past 3 years? you are right tho if we get ANOTHER OC we will be ok, Lovie will pick the right one the 4th time around.
And again I have to point out that Lovie has only chosen 2 OCs, 1 b/c everyone else turned down the job, the other everyone in the world thought was the right choice. Is Lovie really expected to know that the guy who was a run game coordinator at his previous job, who says he wants to run the ball, who talked about having 2 1000 yard rushers, isn't going to hand the ball off to a top 5 RB? Would you have guessed it? I know I certainly never thought that would happen.
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ak06max


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ak06max wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Look, I understand some of the frustration that people may have with Cutler and his wildly inconsistent play, but he is far from the problem with this team on offense. While he does make a lot of boneheaded decisions at times there is no denying that Cutler is a special talent and that the Bears would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over him. Please tell me who's out there or who will be available this off season that will be an upgrade over him?

I think the main reason we have yet to see Cutler truly blossom during his tenure in Chicago is because he has constantly been surrounded with poor talent on the offensive line, receiver (minus this year) and bad offensive schemes, not to mention the instability of having to go through 3 different offensive coordinators in four years.


Even though I haven't been impressed with Tice's play calling in his first year as OC, I assume he and the rest of the offense would only benefit from having another year together; however, if the Bears fail to make the playoffs then I think that Emery should just clean house and start fresh with a new coaching staff. This would bring stability for the next 3 or so years by allowing Cutler and co. to develop without having to worry about changing to another scheme any time soon. That's my two cents.


Playoffs or not I think Emery should make this happen. We need a clean slate start rebuilding after the JA regime. He left us a big pile of you know what that will keep Emery shoveling for quite some time
So let me get this straight, you want to get rid of a coach who has, in your scenario, made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and likely would have been 3 straight years had we not lost our starting QB and RB for the final 6 and 5 games respectively? While you are admitting that the staff has had an inferior roster to work with? Sure 1 out of 5 years if it happens is bad and gives the Lovie haters at least a legit argument, but 2 out of 3 (and again likely would have been 3 straight) is a completely different story.

I'm all for demoting Tice back to OL (precedent was set w/ Babich) and either promoting Bates to OC or going out and finding another experienced playcaller who fits w/ Jay, but cleaning house? When you have a team that needs to win now? Doesn't make much sense, nor would it happen.



So you want a playoff team? A coach that will get you to the playoffs then get out coached and lose. I think the players want rings and a trophy. I could be mistaken. We have a coach that cant beat the Packers and ultimately you kind of need to compete in your division if you ever want to get to the Bowl If you just want a playoff team thats ok. but to get to that next step we need to beat the packs so we are not hoping every year for other teams to lose and win so we have that slight chance to make it.
Well to win the SuperBowl you have to get to the dance. So yes I want a playoff team. As for being outcoached in the playoffs when did this happen? In 2005?? Yes him choosing to cover Steve Smith w/ his best CB w/ safety help over the top hurt the Bears massively, but what was the alternative? 2006, oh you must mean when Peyton Manning was all Peyton Manning and Rex Grossman, was, well Rex Grossman. Yep Lovie was sure outcoached that day (by his best friend and mentor). Oh I know you mean 2010 when the Packers scored 14 pts in a must win game to even get in the playoffs (they had been avg 30+ over the previous 10 games), only to then come in and score 14 pts on offense again 1 week after putting up 40+ on the Falcons. Lovie's playoff record is 3-3, only going 1 and done once. 2 NFCCGs in 3 playoff attempts is a pretty damn good record in the playoffs. Let's say the Bears make the NFCCG again this year but lose, you now have a coach who has made 3 NFCCGs in 4 playoff trips but hasn't won a SuperBowl. Is that a bad coach? How many coaches do you think are better?




14 points how many O coaches do we need to go through to prove Lovie cant get the right coach? Thats what is gonna get him canned. Cutler cant continue to learn new offenses every 2 years its just nonsense I would rather be playing for a 1st round by or home field advantage than just hoping a team wins or loses. We really cant do that until we can beat the Packs. What Lovies record against the packs the past 3 years? you are right tho if we get ANOTHER OC we will be ok, Lovie will pick the right one the 4th time around.
And again I have to point out that Lovie has only chosen 2 OCs, 1 b/c everyone else turned down the job, the other everyone in the world thought was the right choice. Is Lovie really expected to know that the guy who was a run game coordinator at his previous job, who says he wants to run the ball, who talked about having 2 1000 yard rushers, isn't going to hand the ball off to a top 5 RB? Would you have guessed it? I know I certainly never thought that would happen.



Ron Turner,Mike Martz and Mike Tice is 3. It keeps getting worse as the hire go on. There is a reason everyone turned down the job no one wanted to work for Lovie. Im done we will see who our next is to make it the 4th. Turner was JA s choice I know but Cutler with 4 OCs since he joined the Bears is not good for Cutlers development. Tice should of been demoted to O line coach and Bates move to OC calling the plays that would of put a little credit back to Lovie he is stubborn and cant make changes on the fly.
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