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AJ23
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 545
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 Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Panthers11 wrote: | | AJ23 wrote: | I hope those of you who are dying for a new head coach realize how far back this team will be set back if that happens. They are making a lot of progress over the second half of this season. I guess the organization should treat Rivera like a 5 year old. They should punish him by firing him for his team not improving to this degree until the second half of his second season.  What good is punishing Rivera going to do for the organization with the way they are playing now?
I'm sorry for the rant, but part of me hopes this team continues to flounder and ends up being sold. The other part wants what's best for the city and the benefiting businesses (with it's employees - especially in this economy). Two years in and the team is playing the way that it is now, and we are still calling for his head. |
Just like last year? These are wins against bad teams at the end of the year. Rivera has shown time and time again he cannot out-coach the opponent to win close games. Did firing their old coach not work for SF, Seattle, Indianapolis, and St. Louis? |
This is not just like last year. Will the record be almost identical? Yes. Is this the same quality team? Man, know. If you think that, we will just have to disagree. This team looks way better than last year's down-the-stretch team. |
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Panthers11
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 22905
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| AJ23 wrote: | | Panthers11 wrote: | | AJ23 wrote: | I hope those of you who are dying for a new head coach realize how far back this team will be set back if that happens. They are making a lot of progress over the second half of this season. I guess the organization should treat Rivera like a 5 year old. They should punish him by firing him for his team not improving to this degree until the second half of his second season. What good is punishing Rivera going to do for the organization with the way they are playing now?
I'm sorry for the rant, but part of me hopes this team continues to flounder and ends up being sold. The other part wants what's best for the city and the benefiting businesses (with it's employees - especially in this economy). Two years in and the team is playing the way that it is now, and we are still calling for his head. |
Just like last year? These are wins against bad teams at the end of the year. Rivera has shown time and time again he cannot out-coach the opponent to win close games. Did firing their old coach not work for SF, Seattle, Indianapolis, and St. Louis? |
This is not just like last year. Will the record be almost identical? Yes. Is this the same quality team? Man, know. If you think that, we will just have to disagree. This team looks way better than last year's down-the-stretch team. |
It SHOULD be better. It's his second year where there were huge hopes. Are they that much better, if at all? No. Rivera is not an NFL coach. With a new GM coming in, a new coach is needed.
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Yes we Cam. Giancarlo <3. The Bobcats will have their time. |
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AJ23
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 545
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Panthers11 wrote: | | AJ23 wrote: | | Panthers11 wrote: | | AJ23 wrote: | I hope those of you who are dying for a new head coach realize how far back this team will be set back if that happens. They are making a lot of progress over the second half of this season. I guess the organization should treat Rivera like a 5 year old. They should punish him by firing him for his team not improving to this degree until the second half of his second season. What good is punishing Rivera going to do for the organization with the way they are playing now?
I'm sorry for the rant, but part of me hopes this team continues to flounder and ends up being sold. The other part wants what's best for the city and the benefiting businesses (with it's employees - especially in this economy). Two years in and the team is playing the way that it is now, and we are still calling for his head. |
Just like last year? These are wins against bad teams at the end of the year. Rivera has shown time and time again he cannot out-coach the opponent to win close games. Did firing their old coach not work for SF, Seattle, Indianapolis, and St. Louis? |
This is not just like last year. Will the record be almost identical? Yes. Is this the same quality team? Man, know. If you think that, we will just have to disagree. This team looks way better than last year's down-the-stretch team. |
It SHOULD be better. It's his second year where there were huge hopes. Are they that much better, if at all? No. Rivera is not an NFL coach. With a new GM coming in, a new coach is needed. |
I respectfully disagree. This year's down-the-stretch team looks like they were hungover for a good deal of the first half of the season, and the cobwebs were finally shook off. They are beginning to look like the team everyone was hoping for. All I have to say is good luck with changing coaches after two seasons while the team is responding increasingly well to him. These are times when I'm glad neither you nor I run the team. We would most likely run it into the ground with our over/under reactions.
Let's also keep in mind that last year was quite a bit of fool's gold. The lockout (leading to a significantly shortened preseason) meant that Cam didn't learn as much as he could, and he also didn't get the best of the rest of the league's defenses. I see this way: Cam was essentially still going through his rookie growing pains during the first half of this season. It's impressive that he turned it around as abruptly as he did. With the way he was playing (combined with the bad offensive line)... I'm not sure what head coach would be successful with that combination. Cam's not there yet, of course. However, you can't ignore the correlation between his play and the team's success. Where he's at now shows me that the coaches have him on the right path.
Should they keep the OC? I don't know. But something someone is doing with Cam is going right. I don't think interrupting that will go well right now. That's just me, though.  |
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boondock
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 17614
Location: Waynesville, NC
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| AJ23 wrote: | | Panthers11 wrote: | | boondock wrote: | I have 3 candidates that I am interested in.
1. Mike Zimmer - Cincinnati Bengals DC
2. Jack Del Rio - Denver Broncos DC
3. Chip Kelly - Oregon Ducks HC |
What? No. |
I agree. We've seen that movie in another city. It didn't end well. |
So, we are going to ignore the fact that he turned a mediocre team in Jacksonville to perennial playoff contenders before his GM failed to resign any talent or make good decisions in the draft, basically leaving him out to dry. Not to mention, he was handed Gabbert on a silver platter and told to deal with it. Jacksonville is not a place where any coach can have a good team unless they are a hell of a coach. Del Rio was good in Jacksonville for the majority of the career, but was dealt some bad cards in the last few years there.
Del Rio has also turned a Denver defense in to a top 5 D. The guy knows D, just needs a strong OC.
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marschmellow
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 815
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I want Rivera to stay. We're spoiled by Fox's fast jump to 7-9 and then the Super Bowl. Most good coaches took a couple years to get started. I also want to keep Chud--remember how much we liked him last year? This is such a "what have you done for me lately" discussion board it's ridiculous. Yeah, our offense isn't as good this year as it was last year, but we've had a lot of injuries, and I'm not convinced some random new OC we hire could do any better. |
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Panthers11
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 22905
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| marschmellow wrote: | | I want Rivera to stay. We're spoiled by Fox's fast jump to 7-9 and then the Super Bowl. Most good coaches took a couple years to get started. I also want to keep Chud--remember how much we liked him last year? This is such a "what have you done for me lately" discussion board it's ridiculous. Yeah, our offense isn't as good this year as it was last year, but we've had a lot of injuries, and I'm not convinced some random new OC we hire could do any better. |
Including this statement and wanting Rivera to stay is a bit hypocritical.
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Yes we Cam. Giancarlo <3. The Bobcats will have their time. |
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AJ23
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 545
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| boondock wrote: | | AJ23 wrote: | | Panthers11 wrote: | | boondock wrote: | I have 3 candidates that I am interested in.
1. Mike Zimmer - Cincinnati Bengals DC
2. Jack Del Rio - Denver Broncos DC
3. Chip Kelly - Oregon Ducks HC |
What? No. |
I agree. We've seen that movie in another city. It didn't end well. |
So, we are going to ignore the fact that he turned a mediocre team in Jacksonville to perennial playoff contenders before his GM failed to resign any talent or make good decisions in the draft, basically leaving him out to dry. Not to mention, he was handed Gabbert on a silver platter and told to deal with it. Jacksonville is not a place where any coach can have a good team unless they are a hell of a coach. Del Rio was good in Jacksonville for the majority of the career, but was dealt some bad cards in the last few years there.
Del Rio has also turned a Denver defense in to a top 5 D. The guy knows D, just needs a strong OC. |
He really only made the playoffs two times. He also had 3 winning seasons out of 9. I don't know. It would seem like a rerun to me. You could be right, though. He could be a different head coach after learning from his experience in Jax. |
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AJ23
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 545
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Panthers11 wrote: | | marschmellow wrote: | | I want Rivera to stay. We're spoiled by Fox's fast jump to 7-9 and then the Super Bowl. Most good coaches took a couple years to get started. I also want to keep Chud--remember how much we liked him last year? This is such a "what have you done for me lately" discussion board it's ridiculous. Yeah, our offense isn't as good this year as it was last year, but we've had a lot of injuries, and I'm not convinced some random new OC we hire could do any better. |
Including this statement and wanting Rivera to stay is a bit hypocritical. |
Yeah, I guess it does when you look at if from a perspective favorable for your argument (in essence, "Hold up, you're wanting to keep him for 'what he's doing lately!'") If you look at it from the perspective of the entirety of the season, maybe it sounds a little different (like, "You didn't make the playoffs in this your second year like we predicted you would, so get out!") |
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Toughguy77
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1557
Location: South Cackalack
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Panthers11 wrote: | | AJ23 wrote: | I hope those of you who are dying for a new head coach realize how far back this team will be set back if that happens. They are making a lot of progress over the second half of this season. I guess the organization should treat Rivera like a 5 year old. They should punish him by firing him for his team not improving to this degree until the second half of his second season. What good is punishing Rivera going to do for the organization with the way they are playing now?
I'm sorry for the rant, but part of me hopes this team continues to flounder and ends up being sold. The other part wants what's best for the city and the benefiting businesses (with it's employees - especially in this economy). Two years in and the team is playing the way that it is now, and we are still calling for his head. |
Just like last year? These are wins against bad teams at the end of the year. Rivera has shown time and time again he cannot out-coach the opponent to win close games. Did firing their old coach not work for SF, Seattle, Indianapolis, and St. Louis? |
This
| boondock wrote: | So, we are going to ignore the fact that he turned a mediocre team in Jacksonville to perennial playoff contenders before his GM failed to resign any talent or make good decisions in the draft, basically leaving him out to dry. Not to mention, he was handed Gabbert on a silver platter and told to deal with it. Jacksonville is not a place where any coach can have a good team unless they are a hell of a coach. Del Rio was good in Jacksonville for the majority of the career, but was dealt some bad cards in the last few years there.
Del Rio has also turned a Denver defense in to a top 5 D. The guy knows D, just needs a strong OC. |
Couldn't have said it better agreed 100% Chip Kelly HC and Del Rio DC?
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boondock
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 17614
Location: Waynesville, NC
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Toughguy77 wrote: | | Couldn't have said it better agreed 100% Chip Kelly HC and Del Rio DC? |
Doubt Kelly could get JDR to leave for a parallel job, Kelly would probably have to pick one of the top positional coaches to be his DC.
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AJ23
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 545
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Toughguy77 wrote: | | Panthers11 wrote: | | AJ23 wrote: | I hope those of you who are dying for a new head coach realize how far back this team will be set back if that happens. They are making a lot of progress over the second half of this season. I guess the organization should treat Rivera like a 5 year old. They should punish him by firing him for his team not improving to this degree until the second half of his second season. What good is punishing Rivera going to do for the organization with the way they are playing now?
I'm sorry for the rant, but part of me hopes this team continues to flounder and ends up being sold. The other part wants what's best for the city and the benefiting businesses (with it's employees - especially in this economy). Two years in and the team is playing the way that it is now, and we are still calling for his head. |
Just like last year? These are wins against bad teams at the end of the year. Rivera has shown time and time again he cannot out-coach the opponent to win close games. Did firing their old coach not work for SF, Seattle, Indianapolis, and St. Louis? |
This
| boondock wrote: | So, we are going to ignore the fact that he turned a mediocre team in Jacksonville to perennial playoff contenders before his GM failed to resign any talent or make good decisions in the draft, basically leaving him out to dry. Not to mention, he was handed Gabbert on a silver platter and told to deal with it. Jacksonville is not a place where any coach can have a good team unless they are a hell of a coach. Del Rio was good in Jacksonville for the majority of the career, but was dealt some bad cards in the last few years there.
Del Rio has also turned a Denver defense in to a top 5 D. The guy knows D, just needs a strong OC. |
Couldn't have said it better agreed 100% Chip Kelly HC and Del Rio DC? |
And this
| AJ23 wrote: | | He really only made the playoffs two times. He also had 3 winning seasons out of 9. I don't know. It would seem like a rerun to me. You could be right, though. He could be a different head coach after learning from his experience in Jax. |
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AJ23
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 545
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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And I honestly think looking at a record alone to determine performance is pretty shallow. There have to be other factors, and I think the organization and the new GM will consider them all.
I cannot stress enough how glad I am none of us are running the team . Most of us have the temperament of an infant with gas and the attention span of a gnat.
Alright, that really ended my rant... for real this time  . Really though, good conversation here. We really care about the franchise for sure. |
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rjkilla
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 4193
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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i would be so disappointed if we hired del rio. he's best suited as a coordinator. and imo so is rivera. getting late season success every year after you stunk up the joint early is not good enough. lets not just forget all the horrible coaching decisions, time mismanagement, oh and the this is only the second time we've been blown out quote. that last one broke the camels back for me
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AJ23
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 545
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| rjkilla wrote: | | i would be so disappointed if we hired del rio. he's best suited as a coordinator. and imo so is rivera. getting late season success every year after you stunk up the joint early is not good enough. lets not just forget all the horrible coaching decisions, time mismanagement, oh and the this is only the second time we've been blown out quote. that last one broke the camels back for me |
Yeah, but the team had to know that with a new head coach (one who has never head coached before) that he might have to grow as a head coach. Again, I really don't even count last season. It was much different in quality than this season, and it was handicapped for the entire league by the shortened preseason. This season you saw struggles and growth. I tell you what. If the Panthers fire Rivera, he will visit one day to haunt them. He is still highly respected around the league, and the players are responding to him well. We've seen increased signs of this as the season went on (especially late). He's a good coach who is cutting his teeth. To say he's not a head coach is pretty arrogant, considering the depth of ignorance we all suffer from on these forums. We think we know something about the NFL, but we really don't know half of what goes into making a team successful (chemistry, social dynamics, relationships, growing for players and coaches). A lot is totally forgotten or ignored when we get on here a spew our venom. |
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Panthers11
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 22905
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| AJ23 wrote: | And I honestly think looking at a record alone to determine performance is pretty shallow. There have to be other factors, and I think the organization and the new GM will consider them all.
I cannot stress enough how glad I am none of us are running the team . Most of us have the temperament of an infant with gas and the attention span of a gnat.
Alright, that really ended my rant... for real this time . Really though, good conversation here. We really care about the franchise for sure. |
While I somewhat understand what you mean, W-L needs to be the main factor.
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Yes we Cam. Giancarlo <3. The Bobcats will have their time. |
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