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51to54
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1529
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 Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:52 am Post subject: A stronger armed QB getting sacked (Cutler Deal) |
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This was my comment on why I wasn't a fan of the big Cutler deal.
We had a horrible Oline, weak WR group, and an aging defense. We were in a poor position to be able to afford to trade away two firsts and a third.
Sr7252, welcome aboard, stated (paraphrasing) that while Cutler has missing pieces to work with, Rogers works around his offense's short comings better. EXACTLY.
There is a small group of QBs that can pull an offense up by themselves. Rogers, Peyton, Brees, Brady, Big Ben perhaps, etc. With combinations of great pocket presence, mobility, great vision, or knowledge of the game, they can lessen the impact of a weak Oline, poor RB, or average WR.
Cutler is NOT in this group. He's in the next group that given a good supporting cast, he can win the Super Bowl. He's towards the top of the second group, but not the top because he's prone to turnovers.
LoveAngel (Lovie-Angelo) pulled the trigger on this deal hoping to win the Super Bowl before the defense fell off a cliff and they failed. Now the hangover from the failed gamble will have to be dealt with for a couple of more seasons and then Cutler will be hitting his mid -30's and probably with a few more concussions, Forte will be an old QB, and two HOF level defenders and two other great defenders will be gone or in steep decline.
I'm saying this even though I'm come to see that Cutler has a lot more mobility than I knew that he had (even though it doesn't translate into a good pocket presence ) and is mentally tough as nails, but with a body and head (concussions) that can't keep up.
LoveAngel almost pulled off their SB gambit, but we've dumped the second half of the beast and I think it's time to dump the first half. With the number of very good young QB's coming into the league, the deal is looking worse and worse every draft. |
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WindyCity
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 6831
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Whethe the could be more consistent, more friendly or throw less picks one fact remains.
Jay Cutler is the best QB in Bears History and will SHATTER every record that they have.
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Sr7252
Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, I appreciate it. Yeah, it's harsh because most Bears fańs have grown to love the guy. But the truth is, he just isn't at that level. I just feel like we should quit accepting our team being all right.
Lets actually aim for the best we can be. I know it sounds like a battle rally but it's seriously true |
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Sr7252
Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: |
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"Whethe the could be more consistent, more friendly or throw less picks one fact remains.
Jay Cutler is the best QB in Bears History and will SHATTER every record that they have."
I know he's the best we've had no one is arguing that. But dude, we shouldn't just accept being ok. We're the oldest team in the league. We should be elite and in serious contention a lot more. |
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WindyCity
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 6831
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| Sr7252 wrote: | Thank you, I appreciate it. Yeah, it's harsh because most Bears fańs have grown to love the guy. But the truth is, he just isn't at that level. I just feel like we should quit accepting our team being all right.
Lets actually aim for the best we can be. I know it sounds like a battle rally but it's seriously true |
I agree about running on the treadmill of mediocrity.
But finding good QBs is difficult and we struggled with it for 100 years before Cutler.
If I could trade Cutler for Andrew Luck I would in a heart beat but that would never happen. I am not a Cutler fan boy, but I accept that he is the best we can do right now and he is better than 20 QBs in this league.
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WindyCity
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 6831
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Sr7252 wrote: | "Whethe the could be more consistent, more friendly or throw less picks one fact remains.
Jay Cutler is the best QB in Bears History and will SHATTER every record that they have."
I know he's the best we've had no one is arguing that. But dude, we shouldn't just accept being ok. We're the oldest team in the league. We should be elite and in serious contention a lot more. |
What would be your plan for improving?
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51to54
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1529
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| WindyCity wrote: | Whethe the could be more consistent, more friendly or throw less picks one fact remains.
Jay Cutler is the best QB in Bears History and will SHATTER every record that they have. |
Sid Luckman disagrees.
QB of the 1940 championship game where the Bears beat the Redskins 73-0.
QB of the NFL champion Bears 1940, 41, 43, and 46.
3-time Pro Bowler & 5-time First-Team All-Pro.
Inducted into Hall of Fame in 1965.
Records are being shattered because the game has changed drastically to promote the passing game and gone to a 16 game schedule and expanded the playoffs. |
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TytybearsFan21
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 13617
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 51to54 wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | Whethe the could be more consistent, more friendly or throw less picks one fact remains.
Jay Cutler is the best QB in Bears History and will SHATTER every record that they have. |
Sid Luckman disagrees.
QB of the 1940 championship game where the Bears beat the Redskins 73-0.
QB of the NFL champion Bears 1940, 41, 43, and 46.
3-time Pro Bowler & 5-time First-Team All-Pro.
Inducted into Hall of Fame in 1965.
Records are being shattered because the game has changed drastically to promote the passing game and gone to a 16 game schedule and expanded the playoffs. |
Screw Sid Luckman. Who cares what happened in the 40's. |
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51to54
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1529
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| WindyCity wrote: | | Sr7252 wrote: | "Whethe the could be more consistent, more friendly or throw less picks one fact remains.
Jay Cutler is the best QB in Bears History and will SHATTER every record that they have."
I know he's the best we've had no one is arguing that. But dude, we shouldn't just accept being ok. We're the oldest team in the league. We should be elite and in serious contention a lot more. |
What would be your plan for improving? |
Mostly, don't do huge deals that are set to fail due to mismatched pieces with a short term window and a long term downside. In this case, Cutler being a QB that cannot work around weak links in the O. It was a deal with a decade long recovery period if it didn't work out.
The only 'fix' is to build a time machine and don't do the deal so we now are in the position of trying to decide which three problems we try to address (Oline, WR, old defensive players) with a short draft list and "best QB in Bears history" trying to remember how many concussions that he's had.
In defense of the deal, we've had bad luck in that the two shots at upgrading the Oline failed miserably, but the WR were still a mess and the defense was still aging.
In opposition of the deal, there are several young QB's in the league now that are effective and did not cost their teams 2 firsts and a third.
The biggest step is dumping the second part of the two headed LoveAngel drafting doofus. |
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WindyCity
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 6831
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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I do love the LoveAngel name.
This draft bust brought to you by LoveAngel.
Do you want to be a garbage NFL OLmen, try Carimi, by LoveAngel.
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IronMike84
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 5910
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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The "elite QB" listing is stupid. I'm sick of hearing that never-ending discussion and it seems to change weekly anyway.
Look it at this way: Jay Cutler isn't a Hall of Fame QB, and most QBs aren't either. Too bad; win with what you have.
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| Rotoworld.com wrote: | | ...internet mock drafts, which have ridiculously become the measuring stick for where players are "supposed" to go. |
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ak06max
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 1202
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| IronMike84 wrote: | The "elite QB" listing is stupid. I'm sick of hearing that never-ending discussion and it seems to change weekly anyway.
Look it at this way: Jay Cutler isn't a Hall of Fame QB, and most QBs aren't either. Too bad; win with what you have. |
I agree. If it wasnt for the 9ers turning it over on special teams last year. Alex Smith would of brought the team to the super Bow.l Is Alex Smith better than Cutler? We have to focus on whats important this offseason O line, Oline Oline and Oline. We need a LT LG C RT and possibly a RG if Louis isnt the same. We need a coach that knows what offense means, a team that doesn't switch O coaches every other year. Cutler will be good enough to win a Superbowl with talent and coaching that makes sense.
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IronMike84
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 5910
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ak06max wrote: | | We need a coach that knows what offense means... |
Now that's where I disagree. Wanting an offensive HC is just a matter of "buyer's remorse," wanting what you don't have. It's the same thing with people clamouring for the 3-4 and man/press defense.
There's nothing wrong with having a head coach who comes from a defensive background as long as he has an offensive coordinator who gets results.
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| Rotoworld.com wrote: | | ...internet mock drafts, which have ridiculously become the measuring stick for where players are "supposed" to go. |
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Madmike90
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 18568
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| IronMike84 wrote: | | ak06max wrote: | | We need a coach that knows what offense means... |
Now that's where I disagree. Wanting an offensive HC is just a matter of "buyer's remorse," wanting what you don't have. It's the same thing with people clamouring for the 3-4 and man/press defense.
There's nothing wrong with having a head coach who comes from a defensive background as long as he has an offensive coordinator who gets results. |
Agreed. |
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ak06max
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 1202
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Madmike90"] | IronMike84 wrote: | | ak06max wrote: | | We need a coach that knows what offense means... |
Now that's where I disagree. Wanting an offensive HC is just a matter of "buyer's remorse," wanting what you don't have. It's the same thing with people clamouring for the 3-4 and man/press defense.
There's nothing wrong with having a head coach who comes from a defensive background as long as he has an offensive coordinator who gets results. |
Agreed.[/quote
We need a coach that understands offense so we aren't playing musical Offensive coaches every other year. Im sure Cutler loves learning his 4th offense since his rookie year.
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