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DEE RAWL
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 2856
Location: Southern California
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 Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | | DEE RAWL wrote: | 
I still dont even think Jones or Joeckel are even that good, in terms of top 5 pick quality. But I suppose its all relative. |
JARVIS Jones? My only question with Jones is his spinal stenosis. Dude is a beastly player. 4-3 OLB athleticism with great pass rush skills...has experience in coverage. On top of that, he doesn't have the issue you see with most supremely talented players...which is motor. Guy has a great motor and constantly is running down plays from behind or from the other side of the field.
If there were no injury red flags with him, he'd easily be the best prospect in this draft. On the field, guy has Von Miller type ability. I mean he has 147 tackles, 42 TFLs, 26 sacks and 9 FFs over the last 2 years in the SEC and this isn't a guy who stats lie on...he is every bit as good on the field as the stats say. |
Yeah I started writing why I dont feel he is worthy of a top 5 in my eyes, but I deleted it because I didnt feel this was the right thread to do so. He has skills especially as a pass rusher I just think he is a liability against the run.
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Wr80
Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I feel a 16 and a 2nd round for this would be fair. I love Maclin, ever since Mizzou he's such a dynamic player. He gives PR/KR and is a great WR who gets separation something we desperately need. Not to mention we get to move up to the 3rd spot. We could flip that down for maybe a 3rd or 2nd. |
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The J.R.S.
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 2775
Location: Next to Waldo
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| tim199009 wrote: | No i would not take this trade and here's the reason why. I do not think there is a prospect in the top 5 that would warrant that trade. If we end up drafting another bust then we are stuck. However with our two first round picks we get to two valuable starters, and even if one busts we still have the other.
It has nothing to do with maclin the guy's talent is undeniable, but i rather this team build from the ground up with its own draft picks. How often do teams get to capitalize on having TWO first round draft picks. |
...Not very often, which is why it would be wise to do so by accepting a scenario such as this. You and DeeRawl's points make absolutely no sense.
You're both essentially saying that the talent that will be available with one of our mid-round picks is better than what is available at #3, and that simultaneously, our other mid round pick will net a player better than Jeremy Maclin?
This of course doesn't even consider the early 4th round pick that is thrown in.....
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Hoj398
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 873
Location: Detroit, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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what player is worth the #3 overall pick in this draft?
Jarvis Jones - plays in a 3-4 defense at Georgia, Jeff Fisher plays a 4-3 defense. He also has a problem with his spine.
Star Lotulelei - We drafted Micheal Brokers last season, rumors were swirling that we were tempted to take him at #6. We also Signed Kendall Langford.
Luke Joeckel - Hes a good LT that can help bolster our o-line but i don't think he's the Joe Thomas or Jake Long.
Taylor Lewan - Same thing as Luke Joeckel has the potential to be good, but don't see him being a Jake Long or Joe Thomas. |
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DEE RAWL
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 2856
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| The J.R.S. wrote: | | tim199009 wrote: | No i would not take this trade and here's the reason why. I do not think there is a prospect in the top 5 that would warrant that trade. If we end up drafting another bust then we are stuck. However with our two first round picks we get to two valuable starters, and even if one busts we still have the other.
It has nothing to do with maclin the guy's talent is undeniable, but i rather this team build from the ground up with its own draft picks. How often do teams get to capitalize on having TWO first round draft picks. |
...Not very often, which is why it would be wise to do so by accepting a scenario such as this. You and DeeRawl's points make absolutely no sense.
You're both essentially saying that the talent that will be available with one of our mid-round picks is better than what is available at #3, and that simultaneously, our other mid round pick will net a player better than Jeremy Maclin?
This of course doesn't even consider the early 4th round pick that is thrown in..... |
It makes sense based on the opinion i have on the players.
Yes I am saying with 100% confidence that 2 mid round players will be better than one top 5 and Maclin.
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The J.R.S.
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 2775
Location: Next to Waldo
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Hoj398 wrote: | what player is worth the #3 overall pick in this draft?
Jarvis Jones - plays in a 3-4 defense at Georgia, Jeff Fisher plays a 4-3 defense. He also has a problem with his spine.
Star Lotulelei - We drafted Micheal Brokers last season, rumors were swirling that we were tempted to take him at #6. We also Signed Kendall Langford.
Luke Joeckel - Hes a good LT that can help bolster our o-line but i don't think he's the Joe Thomas or Jake Long.
Taylor Lewan - Same thing as Luke Joeckel has the potential to be good, but don't see him being a Jake Long or Joe Thomas. |
Whoever you feel is the best player available. I understand that this draft class is perceived to lack elite talent, but that doesn't negate the fact that the 3rd best prospect is still the 3rd best prospect.
This team should still be drafting under the "best player available" outlook. , so if a guy like Star (talented, but not a team need) is drafted, I will understand why.
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Hoj398
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 873
Location: Detroit, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The J.R.S. wrote: | | Hoj398 wrote: | what player is worth the #3 overall pick in this draft?
Jarvis Jones - plays in a 3-4 defense at Georgia, Jeff Fisher plays a 4-3 defense. He also has a problem with his spine.
Star Lotulelei - We drafted Micheal Brokers last season, rumors were swirling that we were tempted to take him at #6. We also Signed Kendall Langford.
Luke Joeckel - Hes a good LT that can help bolster our o-line but i don't think he's the Joe Thomas or Jake Long.
Taylor Lewan - Same thing as Luke Joeckel has the potential to be good, but don't see him being a Jake Long or Joe Thomas. |
Whoever you feel is the best player available. I understand that this draft class is perceived to lack elite talent, but that doesn't negate the fact that the 3rd best prospect is still the 3rd best prospect.
This team should still be drafting under the "best player available" outlook. , so if a guy like Star (talented, but not a team need) is drafted, I will understand why. |
Why would you draft another DT if we already have 2 good DT's I'd understand if it was for a elite o-linemen or WR or S. I just don't see how we'd benefit if we draft a player that is BPA yet isn't a team either |
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DEE RAWL
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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^ Well i dont agree or disagree but you can never have enough good DL.
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Hoj398
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 873
Location: Detroit, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| DEE RAWL wrote: | | ^ Well i dont agree or disagree but you can never have enough good DL. |
I agree with you but I think we have a good enough defensive linemen rotation
Chris Long
Micheal Brockers
Robert Quinn
Kendall Langford
Matthew Conrath
Jermelle Cudjo
Williams Hayes
Eugune Sims |
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holt_bruce81
Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 18441
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Why settle for "good enough" |
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Hoj398
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 873
Location: Detroit, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| holt_bruce81 wrote: | | Why settle for "good enough" |
We aren't settling when we have more than 4 positions that need to be filled with competent starters. |
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 31490
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Hoj398 wrote: | what player is worth the #3 overall pick in this draft?
Jarvis Jones - plays in a 3-4 defense at Georgia, Jeff Fisher plays a 4-3 defense. He also has a problem with his spine.
Star Lotulelei - We drafted Micheal Brokers last season, rumors were swirling that we were tempted to take him at #6. We also Signed Kendall Langford.
Luke Joeckel - Hes a good LT that can help bolster our o-line but i don't think he's the Joe Thomas or Jake Long.
Taylor Lewan - Same thing as Luke Joeckel has the potential to be good, but don't see him being a Jake Long or Joe Thomas. |
I think most if not all of us know that Jones is playing in a 3-4 in college and we run a 4-3 but that's ultimately irrelevant because Jones has the ability to play 4-3 OLB.
As for Joeckel, many see him as the best prospect in this draft.
And I'll cover Star Lotulelei below:
| Hoj398 wrote: | | Why would you draft another DT if we already have 2 good DT's I'd understand if it was for a elite o-linemen or WR or S. I just don't see how we'd benefit if we draft a player that is BPA yet isn't a team either |
Why? Because you want a great team. If Lotulelei can be a dominant DT, why wouldn't you draft him? Langford has the versatility to play DE and DT but having him as a 5th DL would keep all our DLs fresher.
Unless you have a great young player, you can always upgrade at a position. There's nothing wrong with depth. I mean there's no rule against taking out Lotulelei or Brockers so Langford could still get plenty of PT.
We would benefit immensely from having 2 dominant presences on the inside.
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 31490
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| DEE RAWL wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | DEE RAWL wrote: |
I still dont even think Jones or Joeckel are even that good, in terms of top 5 pick quality. But I suppose its all relative. |
JARVIS Jones? My only question with Jones is his spinal stenosis. Dude is a beastly player. 4-3 OLB athleticism with great pass rush skills...has experience in coverage. On top of that, he doesn't have the issue you see with most supremely talented players...which is motor. Guy has a great motor and constantly is running down plays from behind or from the other side of the field.
If there were no injury red flags with him, he'd easily be the best prospect in this draft. On the field, guy has Von Miller type ability. I mean he has 147 tackles, 42 TFLs, 26 sacks and 9 FFs over the last 2 years in the SEC and this isn't a guy who stats lie on...he is every bit as good on the field as the stats say. |
Yeah I started writing why I dont feel he is worthy of a top 5 in my eyes, but I deleted it because I didnt feel this was the right thread to do so. He has skills especially as a pass rusher I just think he is a liability against the run. |
Jarvis Jones as a 4-3 OLB is not at all a liability against the run. This is a guy who can take on OLs and stand them up. Even has shown the ability to fight off those blocks. Has had a lot of success disengaging from the blocks of TEs and FBs. He wouldn't be a liability out there at all. He takes on blocks a whole lot better than Laurinaitis does.
As a 3-4 OLB, maybe, but that's because most of them line up in the same type role as a 4-3 DE except with their hand off the ground(some have their hand on the ground). In that role, he would get pushed around some but we don't use a 3-4 defense.
Like Von Miller, he wouldn't be a run liability. I don't think he's quite at Von's level as a pass rusher but he's a great one in his own right.
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El ramster
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 24467
Location: Sam Bradfords Bed!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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lol You guys are crazy.. That's a monster of a trade.. I'll do it..
We get the 3rd? And we still have 2 first next year?
YESSSS.. And We get a hometown hero  [/code]
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The J.R.S.
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 2775
Location: Next to Waldo
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Hoj398 wrote: | | The J.R.S. wrote: | | Hoj398 wrote: | what player is worth the #3 overall pick in this draft?
Jarvis Jones - plays in a 3-4 defense at Georgia, Jeff Fisher plays a 4-3 defense. He also has a problem with his spine.
Star Lotulelei - We drafted Micheal Brokers last season, rumors were swirling that we were tempted to take him at #6. We also Signed Kendall Langford.
Luke Joeckel - Hes a good LT that can help bolster our o-line but i don't think he's the Joe Thomas or Jake Long.
Taylor Lewan - Same thing as Luke Joeckel has the potential to be good, but don't see him being a Jake Long or Joe Thomas. |
Whoever you feel is the best player available. I understand that this draft class is perceived to lack elite talent, but that doesn't negate the fact that the 3rd best prospect is still the 3rd best prospect.
This team should still be drafting under the "best player available" outlook. , so if a guy like Star (talented, but not a team need) is drafted, I will understand why. |
Why would you draft another DT if we already have 2 good DT's I'd understand if it was for a elite o-linemen or WR or S. I just don't see how we'd benefit if we draft a player that is BPA yet isn't a team either |
You take whoever you believe can be a star, regardless of their position. Kendall Langford is good, but not too good to share time. Same with Brockers really. He played some good games and he disappeared at times.
His only outstanding game was against Buffalo, who was starting an interior offensive line that probably wasn't as good as what Brockers practiced against while at LSU.
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