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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickButera wrote:
After watching this game, I just can't help but be curious about Pryor. The stars aligned for him in this game, Palmer went down with injury, our offense was anemic under Leinart the whole time he was in...... When Palmer went down I kept thinking, 'OK, if there is anytime a rookie QB is going to be able to get playing time it's now'. Then the 4th quarter came around after Leinart couldn't really do much except 1 good drive, and I thought the same thing again. Yet Allen never played him except a few gimmick plays.

JerryMcD's (or maybe it was Cork's) tweet earlier was something like "if Pryor was even remotely ready to handle the offense, he would have played". I don't know for sure, but after watching how Allen handles Pryor for a whole season, I can't help but think the most logical answer is: He sucks. I'm a firm believer in the philosophy 'the simplest answer is most likely the correct one'. The simplest answer here is that the coaches just aren't playing him because he isn't good.

I mean, we're 4-10, losing on the road by 2 scores in the 4th quarter and our starting QB is hurt. If there is any time to try out your new up and developing QB, it's now. Even if he isn't good, if you think he's a long term solution, you get him in to give him game time experience and get a good look at him, so he can better every chance he can get. If we're not using him now in a time like this, I'd put money on the fact that he won't be with this team for long.

I'd also bet that he's going to be shopped around this offseason. With fast and mobile QB's becoming more prevalent, Reggie may try to sell high and get a pick for him.


Solid post. I would like to focus on the last thought you provided and say that would be a dream scenario. I mean, we haven't heard much from people about how he's practicing. Coaches are saying he's progressing but we're not seeing a thing on the field. Do you think there is some notion that maybe they are talking him up (knowing he might be awful) but won't play him leaving that mystery about him in an attempt to get a better compensation for him than we would if he actually played and everyone saw he was terrible??

I dunno.... I don't get too "conspiracy theory" often but maybe they are trying to sell him w/o showing you what you're gonna get if you trade for him....
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LivingLegendWFC


Joined: 28 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
NickButera wrote:
After watching this game, I just can't help but be curious about Pryor. The stars aligned for him in this game, Palmer went down with injury, our offense was anemic under Leinart the whole time he was in...... When Palmer went down I kept thinking, 'OK, if there is anytime a rookie QB is going to be able to get playing time it's now'. Then the 4th quarter came around after Leinart couldn't really do much except 1 good drive, and I thought the same thing again. Yet Allen never played him except a few gimmick plays.

JerryMcD's (or maybe it was Cork's) tweet earlier was something like "if Pryor was even remotely ready to handle the offense, he would have played". I don't know for sure, but after watching how Allen handles Pryor for a whole season, I can't help but think the most logical answer is: He sucks. I'm a firm believer in the philosophy 'the simplest answer is most likely the correct one'. The simplest answer here is that the coaches just aren't playing him because he isn't good.

I mean, we're 4-10, losing on the road by 2 scores in the 4th quarter and our starting QB is hurt. If there is any time to try out your new up and developing QB, it's now. Even if he isn't good, if you think he's a long term solution, you get him in to give him game time experience and get a good look at him, so he can better every chance he can get. If we're not using him now in a time like this, I'd put money on the fact that he won't be with this team for long.

I'd also bet that he's going to be shopped around this offseason. With fast and mobile QB's becoming more prevalent, Reggie may try to sell high and get a pick for him.


All this is a logical perspective of the situation. But even if he does suck, so what. This whole darn team sucks. We arent winning anyway. Even if you going to cut bait you can at least play him and try to get a 6th. If the other teams saw Matt and knows we still wont play TP nobody is going to trade for him. This is the same thing with Tebow last year. He sucked in practice but Orton sucked on gameday, the season looked lost, let just play Tebow and see what he can do. They got a freaking 4th for Tebow. Tebow is terrible. We arent even trying to up TP trade value. The way Allen handle this situation is terrible and the way Allen cant be creative with him is terrible.


Well said, that's pretty much what I was going to say.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LivingLegendWFC wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
NickButera wrote:
After watching this game, I just can't help but be curious about Pryor. The stars aligned for him in this game, Palmer went down with injury, our offense was anemic under Leinart the whole time he was in...... When Palmer went down I kept thinking, 'OK, if there is anytime a rookie QB is going to be able to get playing time it's now'. Then the 4th quarter came around after Leinart couldn't really do much except 1 good drive, and I thought the same thing again. Yet Allen never played him except a few gimmick plays.

JerryMcD's (or maybe it was Cork's) tweet earlier was something like "if Pryor was even remotely ready to handle the offense, he would have played". I don't know for sure, but after watching how Allen handles Pryor for a whole season, I can't help but think the most logical answer is: He sucks. I'm a firm believer in the philosophy 'the simplest answer is most likely the correct one'. The simplest answer here is that the coaches just aren't playing him because he isn't good.

I mean, we're 4-10, losing on the road by 2 scores in the 4th quarter and our starting QB is hurt. If there is any time to try out your new up and developing QB, it's now. Even if he isn't good, if you think he's a long term solution, you get him in to give him game time experience and get a good look at him, so he can better every chance he can get. If we're not using him now in a time like this, I'd put money on the fact that he won't be with this team for long.

I'd also bet that he's going to be shopped around this offseason. With fast and mobile QB's becoming more prevalent, Reggie may try to sell high and get a pick for him.


All this is a logical perspective of the situation. But even if he does suck, so what. This whole darn team sucks. We arent winning anyway. Even if you going to cut bait you can at least play him and try to get a 6th. If the other teams saw Matt and knows we still wont play TP nobody is going to trade for him. This is the same thing with Tebow last year. He sucked in practice but Orton sucked on gameday, the season looked lost, let just play Tebow and see what he can do. They got a freaking 4th for Tebow. Tebow is terrible. We arent even trying to up TP trade value. The way Allen handle this situation is terrible and the way Allen cant be creative with him is terrible.


Well said, that's pretty much what I was going to say.


I agree. DA being a defensive coach, I am starting to wonder if he doesnt think TP is ready or Knapp is just telling him that because he doesnt know how to use him properly. Because I really dont see how we could get more compensation now than we could if we just played him. Especially in this offense. So what if we dont score or get first downs. We are doing that anyways so it couldnt really drop his value much if at all.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickButera wrote:
After watching this game, I just can't help but be curious about Pryor. The stars aligned for him in this game, Palmer went down with injury, our offense was anemic under Leinart the whole time he was in...... When Palmer went down I kept thinking, 'OK, if there is anytime a rookie QB is going to be able to get playing time it's now'. Then the 4th quarter came around after Leinart couldn't really do much except 1 good drive, and I thought the same thing again. Yet Allen never played him except a few gimmick plays.

JerryMcD's (or maybe it was Cork's) tweet earlier was something like "if Pryor was even remotely ready to handle the offense, he would have played". I don't know for sure, but after watching how Allen handles Pryor for a whole season, I can't help but think the most logical answer is: He sucks. I'm a firm believer in the philosophy 'the simplest answer is most likely the correct one'. The simplest answer here is that the coaches just aren't playing him because he isn't good.

I mean, we're 4-10, losing on the road by 2 scores in the 4th quarter and our starting QB is hurt. If there is any time to try out your new up and developing QB, it's now. Even if he isn't good, if you think he's a long term solution, you get him in to give him game time experience and get a good look at him, so he can better every chance he can get. If we're not using him now in a time like this, I'd put money on the fact that he won't be with this team for long.

I'd also bet that he's going to be shopped around this offseason. With fast and mobile QB's becoming more prevalent, Reggie may try to sell high and get a pick for him.


this would make sense if we made sense and had a history of making good moves this year but so far all but 3 were bad moves.

1) hire knapp
2) sign bartell and the other fa cb to start
3) sign briesel as our key fa pick up
4) sign willie and start him even tho he sucks
5) draft berg when they were plenty other options
6) trade for goody (great move)
7) drop lee cause he isnt "dominant" even though we are thin at cb
Cool keep starting hanson even though he keeps getting burnt alive
9) draft burris (good)
10) draft kidi (good)
11) wait until mid season to switch from ZBS to PBS
12) gio still starting

etc etc
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

yea but after ml started throwing ints and balls out of bounds you would think maybe tp would get a chance.


He threw one INT so don't try to make it plural to shove him into the ground to make playing Pryor look better. Also, why was he throwing them out of bounds? Is it b/c he was saving the play? I didn't see him play that much but I'm guessing he's just not taking the snap and throwing it out of bounds for no reason.


That's honestly what he did on 4th down with the game on the line. He also checked down 3 yards behind the LOS on the previous 4th down play too.


not to mention all those 1 yrd pass plays
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


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OakRaiders3828


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the time, what was so bad about signing Bartell to a cheap one year prove it contract? He didn't proves himself so he got cut, not a big deal really because we all knew the terms of the signing when it happened. Get over lee, Ross and Adams not only show more promise, but they're younger.

In hindsight signing Willie wasn't great, but you can't predict the future and the guy showed promise in Washington. Only reason he was kept in there is because there was no other option.

And what's your beef with playing Hansen? He "starts" as the nickel/slot Guy which is what he's good at. The guy is a solid CB for us, and what other option do we have?

I think you just like to label everything you can as a bad move. He did what he could in the offseason, since you keep complaining about the FA signings, who would you have liked him to sign given the resources he had?
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How was our running game so bad? I thought after we switched to the PBS we'd have the best run gamezzz eva!!11!!
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
At the time, what was so bad about signing Bartell to a cheap one year prove it contract? He didn't proves himself so he got cut, not a big deal really because we all knew the terms of the signing when it happened. Get over lee, Ross and Adams not only show more promise, but they're younger.

In hindsight signing Willie wasn't great, but you can't predict the future and the guy showed promise in Washington. Only reason he was kept in there is because there was no other option.

And what's your beef with playing Hansen? He "starts" as the nickel/slot Guy which is what he's good at. The guy is a solid CB for us, and what other option do we have?

I think you just like to label everything you can as a bad move. He did what he could in the offseason, since you keep complaining about the FA signings, who would you have liked him to sign given the resources he had?


its cool to experiment with guys like bartell and willie but imo its not to smart to rely on them to be starters. lee played just as good or better than bartell or the other fa cb from sf that never plays. solid? hanson has been getting burnt since that mia game. willie just plain sucks but he started for how many weeks? its just weird how some guys get passes for not playing "dominant" but other guys get cut.
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
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NCOUGHMAN


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Darkness wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/oakland-tommy-kelly-went-cam-newton-carson-palmer-005358932--nfl.html

can we just cut kelly now i thought sapp was a diva but dam kelly loves to run his mouth


Darkness wrote:
Our D wants to end Newtons season. lol Loving the fire


I posted that in the 2nd quarter. The D was getting after it. They should play with this fire all the time, not just when CP gets hurt.


That "fire" is what got us so many penalties last year. They went after the QB today and that's always appreciated but what Kelly said was moronic. He's gonna get fined and hopefully will be gone in the offseason. We're trying to be rid of Jackson's "bully" mentality that git us the penalty record. Newton should have been flagged but Kelly isn't exactly the most composed player either. For somebody who hasn't done much of anything this season he runs his mouth a lot. Its great to be physical but you also have to be smart.


The team didn't play reckless today though. Aside from that questionable Kelly penalty, the D had good composure throughout and played mean without being dumb. Nothing wrong with that. Hopefully they can bring it against SD next week too.


why even bring it up imo? why not just let your play do the talking. saying stuff like that to the media isnt smart esp after the whole saints thing. something should just be kept in the locker room imo.
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Nightmare


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:

why even bring it up imo?


Because Tommy Kelly is an idiot. A useless, loudmouth, overpaid idiot.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickButera wrote:
After watching this game, I just can't help but be curious about Pryor. The stars aligned for him in this game, Palmer went down with injury, our offense was anemic under Leinart the whole time he was in...... When Palmer went down I kept thinking, 'OK, if there is anytime a rookie QB is going to be able to get playing time it's now'. Then the 4th quarter came around after Leinart couldn't really do much except 1 good drive, and I thought the same thing again. Yet Allen never played him except a few gimmick plays.

JerryMcD's (or maybe it was Cork's) tweet earlier was something like "if Pryor was even remotely ready to handle the offense, he would have played". I don't know for sure, but after watching how Allen handles Pryor for a whole season, I can't help but think the most logical answer is: He sucks. I'm a firm believer in the philosophy 'the simplest answer is most likely the correct one'. The simplest answer here is that the coaches just aren't playing him because he isn't good.

I mean, we're 4-10, losing on the road by 2 scores in the 4th quarter and our starting QB is hurt. If there is any time to try out your new up and developing QB, it's now. Even if he isn't good, if you think he's a long term solution, you get him in to give him game time experience and get a good look at him, so he can better every chance he can get. If we're not using him now in a time like this, I'd put money on the fact that he won't be with this team for long.

I'd also bet that he's going to be shopped around this offseason. With fast and mobile QB's becoming more prevalent, Reggie may try to sell high and get a pick for him.


+1

Good Post. I don't think there are any conspiracy theories. Allen won't play Pryor because he's in a catch 22. Allen decided long ago to hitch his wagon to Palmer. If Allen plays Pryor now once the season is lost and he wins out 1) Allen loses his "I lost my QB" excuse, 2) Questions begin as to why Allen didn't play Pryor sooner, 3) The FO will be under a lot of pressure from the community to build around a QB with a questionable shelf life (ie: how long can you win with a Tebow-esque QB).

I call Pryor the Urbanites Tebow because Pryor's career is eerily reminiscent of Tebow's. Allen is in the exact same situation as Jet's HC Ryan. Imo, the Raiders won't trade Pryor but will keep on the roster as the 3rd string QB for the duration of his contract. It saves face in the community, the Raiders won't look bad if Pryor tears it up with another team and by the time his contract is up Pryor will have lacked the game experience to reach whatever little potential there was. The NFL community just wants the Tebow-esque prospect to go away.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis Allen said he is impressed with the play of defensive back Brandian Ross the past few games.

Per CorkOnTheNFL
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Dessie


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Darkness wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

yea but after ml started throwing ints and balls out of bounds you would think maybe tp would get a chance.


He threw one INT so don't try to make it plural to shove him into the ground to make playing Pryor look better. Also, why was he throwing them out of bounds? Is it b/c he was saving the play? I didn't see him play that much but I'm guessing he's just not taking the snap and throwing it out of bounds for no reason.


That's honestly what he did on 4th down with the game on the line. He also checked down 3 yards behind the LOS on the previous 4th down play too.


not to mention all those 1 yrd pass plays


Weren't you calling for Leinart to start ahead of Palmer at the start of the season?
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
Dennis Allen said he is impressed with the play of defensive back Brandian Ross the past few games.

Per CorkOnTheNFL


Good sign with Allen being a former DB coach.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
At the time, what was so bad about signing Bartell to a cheap one year prove it contract? He didn't proves himself so he got cut, not a big deal really because we all knew the terms of the signing when it happened. Get over lee, Ross and Adams not only show more promise, but they're younger.

In hindsight signing Willie wasn't great, but you can't predict the future and the guy showed promise in Washington. Only reason he was kept in there is because there was no other option.

And what's your beef with playing Hansen? He "starts" as the nickel/slot Guy which is what he's good at. The guy is a solid CB for us, and what other option do we have?

I think you just like to label everything you can as a bad move. He did what he could in the offseason, since you keep complaining about the FA signings, who would you have liked him to sign given the resources he had?


its cool to experiment with guys like bartell and willie but imo its not to smart to rely on them to be starters. lee played just as good or better than bartell or the other fa cb from sf that never plays. solid? hanson has been getting burnt since that mia game. willie just plain sucks but he started for how many weeks? its just weird how some guys get passes for not playing "dominant" but other guys get cut.


WHo got a pass lol? the guys you mentioned all got cut Confused

and regardless of what you say, Hanson has been playing well in the slot.
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