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Conquest8089


Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 2680
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Opinion on Giants Offense Reply with quote

Ranked 6th in scoring, the Offense has been productive albeit inconsistent through 2012.

Ranking 32nd in rushing last season, they became one dimensional at times. This season, a combination of factors has hindered the unit- Age, Personnel, and young players absorbing Gillbride's scheme

Casual fans attribute the regression of the Offense to exclusively Andre Brown's injury. While costly, the major issue is the Offensive Line.

The 2011 opening lineup was:
LT: William Beatty
LG: David Diehl
C: David Baas
RG: Chris Snee
RT: Kareem McKenzie

Top backups were Kevin Boothe & Stacy Andrews.

Signed to shore up the interior, David Baas was plagued by injuries forcing Boothe into a prominent role. His performance warranted a starting role. When Baas returned from injury, Boothe played RG vs. Buffalo in place of Snee and returned to the bench Week 8. Boothe would return to Center one week later and he continued to fill voids as they emerged.

Will Beatty went to IR with a detached retina. Boothe moved into LG and Diehl out to LT. Diehl struggled in pass protection, but the team won the SB.

Entering 2012, Kareem McKenzie & Stacy Andrews retired, Mitch Petrus was Cut, and Will Beatty was set to return. For what I assumed was insurance & depth, the Giants signed veteran Sean Locklear. Many anticipated James Brewer would emerge at Right Tackle, and Boothe would be the top backup.

Internally, the Giants decided Boothe was too valuable to sit. Beatty did not play in the preseason and started the campaign as the 3rd Tackle (Blocking TE).

The NFL is a Meritocracy. For the past 3 seasons, David Diehl has been struggling at tackle and less than overwhelming on the interior. The 2003 5th Round choice has been the consummate professional, but he's become a major liability on the offense at this stage of his career. Beatty & Locklear ultimately manned the tackle spots from 3 minutes prior to halftime against Tampa Bay until Week 9 vs. Pittsburgh. The Offense was the strongest during this duration.

Diehl started vs. Pittsburgh, but the FO & CS decided Locklear was the Boothe of this year- Too Valuable to sit on the bench.

Week 1 vs. Dallas

LT: Sean Locklear
LG: Kevin Boothe
OC: David Baas
RG: Chris Snee
RT: David Diehl

Will Beatty (TE)- 5 Plays at TE

In week 2, Beatty slide into the LT spot and Locklear over to RT prior to halftime.

David Diehl returned @ San Francisco. The offensive line was cohesive and the running game was productive. Diehl played 13 Plays at TE (Reporting Eligible), and the Unit did not surrender A Sack.

Coming of the 26-3 Victory, the Giants maintained the same lineup week 7 vs. Washington. David Diehl reported eligible 6 times during the contest. Allowing 1 sack, Eli had one of his best performances of the season.

Week 8, this unit led the Giants to a 29-24 victory over Dallas, they kept DeMarcus Ware quiet except one sack, the loan sack the Boys recorded.

Week 9 vs. Pittsburgh- Diehl reassumed the Right Tackle position and Sean Locklear was relegated to the bench. Eli was sacked twice (one credited to Diehl). On 3rd & 8 with 41 seconds remaining in the first half, LeMarr Woodley turned the edge, ending the Giants scoring chances before halftime. Woodley would later cause a Fumble with 3:34 remaining in the 4th, with the Giants down 4 points. ProFF seems to omit these facts.

Diehl remained the starter against Cincinnati.

The media, and Giants have been quiet on Diehl's demotion. With Diehl at Right Tackle, the Giants offense changes significantly. More Two TE sets are utilized to help the tackles, the backs are asked to chip regularly, and the run blocking scheme changes drastically.

Against Green Bay- Runs to the right had Diehl Blocking down the 3-4 End on an inside shade. The most simplistic block to execute. Snee was pulling to Kick Out, Bennett, Pascoe or Hynoski were responsible for the SAM, & the unit lost its ability to generate movement using traditional man blocking principles.

With 3 minutes remaining and up 24-10, Locklear replaced Diehl, and Coughlin did not address the move in his Press Conference. Bradshaw would score prior to halftime making it 31-10, assisted by a tremendous second level block by Locklear that neutralized A.J. Hawk,

Fans keep calling for three WR sets. The reality is the team utilized these sets with Locklear, as he could hold up on an island. Below is the personnel groupings against Washington (First Drive)

Week 13 @ Washington
1-10 (Giants 10 Yard Line): Bradshaw, Bennett, Bascoe, Cruz & Nicks
1-10: Bradshaw, Hynoski, Bennett, Cruz, Nicks
2-8: Bradshaw, Bennett, Nicks, Jernigan, Cruz
3-5: Wilson, Nicks, Randle, Jernigan, Cruz (Catch by Jernigan)
1-10: Bradshaw, Hynoski, Bennett, Nicks, Cruz (Catch by Bennett)
1-10: Wilson, Hynoski (Split) Bennett, Pascoe, Nicks
2-5: Bradshaw, Hynoski, Bennett, Cruz, Randle
1-10: Bradshaw, Bennett, Randle, Cruz, Nicks
1-15: Bradshaw, Hynoski, Bennett, Cruz, Nicks
2-15: Bradshaw, Bennett, Cruz, Randle, Nicks
3-8: Bradshaw, Bennett, Cruz, Randle, Nicks

Field Goal

Locklear suffered a season-ending torn ACL and was placed on IR. David Diehl played well against New Orleans, surrendering only 2 pressures and one hit. But less Hixon, Jernigan, & most importantly Randle will be utilized in the weeks forthcoming. More two TE power sets will be implemented. This takes away from Gilbride's creativity, allows Defenses to remain in their base packages and makes the offense less explosive. This has been magnified by Hakeem Nicks' foot, which was re-agrivated week 2 in the 4th Quarter.

Bottom Line:

Signing Locklear to a 1 Year 890,000 dollar deal was tremendous by Jerry Reese. For the past few years, he's been subtly addressing O Line depth with well scouted veterans- a trend that dates back to Ernie Accorsi.

The first wave was Shaun O'Hara, Richie Seubert, & Grey Reugamer. The second group- Kevin Boothe, Stacey Andrews, & Sean Locklear. Noble attempts included Shawn Andrews, Jamon Meredith, & Shane Olivea.

Sean Locklear was the unsung hero of this squad. With Eli looking so inconsistent and the rumored arm fatigue prior to the bye, I wonder if something is going on inside his shoulder. Not to alarm anyone, but the Organization cannot assume Eli will be so durable year after year.
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GMENNATION


Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 154
Location: Greater New York Area
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Completely agree with you. Although Eli has not been sacked too many times this season, the offensive line has absolutely hindered the entire offense. They do not get a push in the run game, generating few big holes for the RBs to run through. Bradshaw is simply too broken down to create yardage on his own every run play.

Many of Eli's INTs this year have been with pressure right in his face. To his credit, Eli has been able to move them down the field with pretty good efficiency all season. However, they cannot finish drives for TDs! They're always settling for FGs and I believe this, again, falls on the OL. Once the defense less ground to cover, the Giants cannot move the ball.

Despite problems in the Giants secondary, I think they should be going OL very early in the upcoming draft. This offense has Top 5 potential with a better OL.
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reckless123


Joined: 02 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno why Coughlin is so loyal to Diehl. Diehl ineptitude was highlighted last week. Bear Pascoe chips one of the DE's on the right side, the DE is clearly off balance and Diehl tries to put his hands on him and COMPLETELY misses him leading to a sack. It was embarrassing.
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fracdaddy14


Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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Location: Northeastern PA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Analysis!

Locklear not only was a solid addition, but his versatility was key in the early season. I hope we resign him, although Beatty (who we need to lock up as he has become a solid LT) and Boothe (who finally stopped committing penalties) are free agents who have been key starters this season.

I hope the Giants just cut ties with Diehl early in the off-season so younger guys can get some reps in the off-season. There is some good depth this off-season at OL in free agency and the draft. I even mocked a OT like Dallas Thomas in Round 2. Mosley could get a look too, but James Brewer hasn't shown he can earn the coaches' trust. He has only played 15 offensive snaps all year long.

The luckiest thing with a QB like Eli is he can be very successful without an elite OL. We don't need to make a splash, but resigning Boothe, Beatty, and Locklear, acquiring another OT, and cutting Diehl would be key.

Realistically, our offensive line in 2013 would look like...

C- David Baas
RG- Chris Snee
LG- Kevin Boothe
RT- Sean Locklear, Draft Pick, or Free Agent
LT- William Beatty

Swing Tackle- Sean Locklear or Draft Pick
Interior Backup- Jim Cordle
Bench Help- Brandon Mosley
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giants are not resigning a 32 year old OT who just tore his ACL
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dkebones


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 3664
Location: Giants fan in the Seahawk's backyard...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great writeup, Conquest!

For as much credit as I think we all give to JR, the question I continue to ask is "why" he continues to try and find the diamond in the haystack, without attempting a legitimate long term solution by drafting a highly touted lineman or making a splash trying to grab a young stud FA.

I realize the draft route is often risky, but there have been a number of recent linemen who would have had the opportunity to take like Pouncey, Iupati, Bulaga, etc. I totally realize this is hindsight- and we'd have to have passed on one of our other key players (Nicks, JPP, etc), but for all his experimentation i think at some point JR is going to find that he's playing with fire and he's going to get burned, to the detriment of the team (and hopefully not to the detriment of our franchise qb).

all in all, it would just be nice to see him put some effort into a quality-formed, non-patchwork (i realize that this process is surely more thoughtful than i've dumbed it down to, but the line often feels like a patchwork throw-together) offensive line that can once again be one of the strengths of this team.
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fracdaddy14


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering Reece's love of DL and the amount of quality DL in this draft, I highly doubt he won't pick non-DL with the BPA method. Luckily, OT is pretty deep too in Rounds 1 and 2 if the A&M twins declare. That's why I hope one falls to us in the 2nd that could turn into a long-term solution at RT. Canidates would be Oday Aboushi, Dallas Thomas, or even a guy like Eric Fisher who has a first round grade, but could be passed by "combine types". A late interior OL like Alvin Bailey or Omoregie Uzzi have the qualities to replace an aging C/G. Things like cone/shuffle times, 10 yard dash, and techniques like punch are ways to find diamond in the rough OL, something to look at for the combine. We need a guy who can start 8-10 years like Snee.
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dkebones


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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Location: Giants fan in the Seahawk's backyard...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what are the chances that JR takes a can't miss interior lineman in the mid-20s (assuming that's where we are) for immediate help to the run game? Chance Warmack is going to be one of the highest graded guys in the draft, let alone interior linemen (McShay has said he is the best interior lineman since Steve Hutchinson; regardless if its true, that's saying something). he is a natural LG which is the position of need (assuming Snee stays for another 2-3 years).

Would be lovely to see a lineman in blue actually pushing blockers off the ball back to the second level before I retire Laughing

an interesting take i came across the other day said that this may be the "weirdest" draft in recent memory. there are no RGIIIs and Lucks, no head-above-the-rest type of skill players. this draft is likely to be dominated by linemen and not to be surprised by what the lay-observer might consider head scratching picks.
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NYGiantsman10


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkebones wrote:
what are the chances that JR takes a can't miss interior lineman in the mid-20s (assuming that's where we are) for immediate help to the run game? Chance Warmack is going to be one of the highest graded guys in the draft, let alone interior linemen (McShay has said he is the best interior lineman since Steve Hutchinson; regardless if its true, that's saying something). he is a natural LG which is the position of need (assuming Snee stays for another 2-3 years).

Would be lovely to see a lineman in blue actually pushing blockers off the ball back to the second level before I retire Laughing

an interesting take i came across the other day said that this may be the "weirdest" draft in recent memory. there are no RGIIIs and Lucks, no head-above-the-rest type of skill players. this draft is likely to be dominated by linemen and not to be surprised by what the lay-observer might consider head scratching picks.


I'd love to see a real road grader like Warmack in Giants blue. Right now my favorite scenario goes like:

1) Corner
2) O line preferably OT
3) D End specifically a raw guy with significant pass rushing upside
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Gmen


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Giants are alright at the skill positions. Eli, Cruz, Nicks, Randle, Wilson, Brown and Bennett are nice solid corp. But the offensive line can definitely use an upgrade. There is absolutely no room to run in the middle. After seeing what the Giants haven't been able to do, and what the 49ers have been able to do with their interior linemen, maybe it's time we invested in a guy that can clear a 5 yard path... or at least not get pushed into the backfield.
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Gmen4ev


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Location: In west Philadelphia born and raised
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
The Giants are alright at the skill positions. Eli, Cruz, Nicks, Randle, Wilson, Brown and Bennett are nice solid corp. But the offensive line can definitely use an upgrade. There is absolutely no room to run in the middle. After seeing what the Giants haven't been able to do, and what the 49ers have been able to do with their interior linemen, maybe it's time we invested in a guy that can clear a 5 yard path... or at least not get pushed into the backfield.


This ...

I love our offense (and everyone on it) but if we had a solid O-Line we'd be looking like (even better) than the patriots.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we people bring up the fact that the Giants have given up the least amount of sacks, so that equates to having a good line are kidding themselves dearly (Not talking about people on here, but the public and media). That right side has been such a problem. At the skill positions we're one of the best in the league but that o-line is a problem.

And the fact we've won 2 SBs with Kevin Gilbride means the media think he is exempt from criticism. I know what type of offense we run but c'mon be creative, eli is athletic enough to roll him out to the the right or left. Ultimately its time that this year JR ditches his philosophy for this year and drafts an o-linemen for the future this year.
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fracdaddy14


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One crazy proposal I once thought of, was to allow (make) Coughlin retire after like the 2014 season and bring in an innovative OC as successor. That's how CEOs work for major corporations. Bring in someone like Chris Peterson, have him install his offense for 2 years, gain valuable NFL coordinator experience with the promise of being a HC in 2 years.

Coughlin would get his glory retirement year and we would, hopefully, have another 10-year coach in place and be ahead of the offensive shifts.

I know its crazy, but food for thought. We need to replace Gilbride because his offense is too predictable and doesn't adapt like the Patriots did with those 2 top TEs. Gilbride would never think of using Hernandez as a RB IMO.
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fracdaddy14 wrote:
One crazy proposal I once thought of, was to allow (make) Coughlin retire after like the 2014 season and bring in an innovative OC as successor. That's how CEOs work for major corporations. Bring in someone like Chris Peterson, have him install his offense for 2 years, gain valuable NFL coordinator experience with the promise of being a HC in 2 years.

Coughlin would get his glory retirement year and we would, hopefully, have another 10-year coach in place and be ahead of the offensive shifts.

I know its crazy, but food for thought. We need to replace Gilbride because his offense is too predictable and doesn't adapt like the Patriots did with those 2 top TEs. Gilbride would never think of using Hernandez as a RB IMO.


You win multiple Superbowls and keep getting into the playoffs you leave when you want.
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NYGiantsman10


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GmenSeattle wrote:
fracdaddy14 wrote:
One crazy proposal I once thought of, was to allow (make) Coughlin retire after like the 2014 season and bring in an innovative OC as successor. That's how CEOs work for major corporations. Bring in someone like Chris Peterson, have him install his offense for 2 years, gain valuable NFL coordinator experience with the promise of being a HC in 2 years.

Coughlin would get his glory retirement year and we would, hopefully, have another 10-year coach in place and be ahead of the offensive shifts.

I know its crazy, but food for thought. We need to replace Gilbride because his offense is too predictable and doesn't adapt like the Patriots did with those 2 top TEs. Gilbride would never think of using Hernandez as a RB IMO.


You win multiple Superbowls and keep getting into the playoffs you leave when you want.


Coughlin's never gonna leave. Makes me wonder how his tenure with the Giants is gonna end.
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