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2013 Quarterback depth
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zmspartan82 wrote:
I've been big on Tolzien since his Wisconsin days. From everything I've seen in preseason, the guy's more than capable of a #2 job. Not an athletic specimen, mediocre arm strength, but one commentator said it best: he's a gamer. Kind of reminds me of a less athletic Alex, really. Efficient. Plus you can't discount the experience--he's been in the offense for two years, which gives him two more years of experience than anyone else we could bring in.

That said, assuming Kaep is the starter, we might want someone whose abilities more closely reflect his. This is why Harbaugh brought in Johnson last preseason, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him on our roster (as a 2 or 3) next year.



I think our back-up doesn't absolutely to be an athletic QB, a Kaepernick lite. Harbaugh has shown an ability to adjust the play calling to whoever is playing. Also, in recent weeks, Kap has been used in more classic, under center, formations, so those are still a big part of the offense. With Tolzien, we would probably not run the pistol, but blocking concepts and route trees can be converted to a regular singleback set. That's exactly what the Redskins did when RGIII missed a game. They kept the same plays, the same running plays and same routes on pass plays, only the shifted the QB from the pistol position to under center. So I don't think a back-up has to be a clone of Kap. As long as he's a capable passer and can make the reads.

I wouldn't compare Tolzien to a less athletic Alex Smith. To me, he's similar to Shaun Hill. Not a great arm, not particularly athletic, but just a gamer. He'll come into a game and play with a lot of guts, but with clear limitations.
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zmspartan82


Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
zmspartan82 wrote:
I've been big on Tolzien since his Wisconsin days. From everything I've seen in preseason, the guy's more than capable of a #2 job. Not an athletic specimen, mediocre arm strength, but one commentator said it best: he's a gamer. Kind of reminds me of a less athletic Alex, really. Efficient. Plus you can't discount the experience--he's been in the offense for two years, which gives him two more years of experience than anyone else we could bring in.

That said, assuming Kaep is the starter, we might want someone whose abilities more closely reflect his. This is why Harbaugh brought in Johnson last preseason, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him on our roster (as a 2 or 3) next year.



I think our back-up doesn't absolutely to be an athletic QB, a Kaepernick lite. Harbaugh has shown an ability to adjust the play calling to whoever is playing. Also, in recent weeks, Kap has been used in more classic, under center, formations, so those are still a big part of the offense. With Tolzien, we would probably not run the pistol, but blocking concepts and route trees can be converted to a regular singleback set. That's exactly what the Redskins did when RGIII missed a game. They kept the same plays, the same running plays and same routes on pass plays, only the shifted the QB from the pistol position to under center. So I don't think a back-up has to be a clone of Kap. As long as he's a capable passer and can make the reads.

I wouldn't compare Tolzien to a less athletic Alex Smith. To me, he's similar to Shaun Hill. Not a great arm, not particularly athletic, but just a gamer. He'll come into a game and play with a lot of guts, but with clear limitations.


True. I don't necessarily support a Kaep clone because the majority of athletic guys are also more erratic and turnover prone (see: Troy Smith). I personally would rather have Tolzien, but Harbaugh seems to go more toward QBs with "upside". And Shaun Hill is a good comparison. I was a big Shaun Hill fan and was pissed when we got rid of him. Shaun just had more of a middle-deep ball and threw a few more picks, whereas I view Scott as more of a short, checkdown guy like Alex.
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zmspartan82 wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
zmspartan82 wrote:
I've been big on Tolzien since his Wisconsin days. From everything I've seen in preseason, the guy's more than capable of a #2 job. Not an athletic specimen, mediocre arm strength, but one commentator said it best: he's a gamer. Kind of reminds me of a less athletic Alex, really. Efficient. Plus you can't discount the experience--he's been in the offense for two years, which gives him two more years of experience than anyone else we could bring in.

That said, assuming Kaep is the starter, we might want someone whose abilities more closely reflect his. This is why Harbaugh brought in Johnson last preseason, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him on our roster (as a 2 or 3) next year.



I think our back-up doesn't absolutely to be an athletic QB, a Kaepernick lite. Harbaugh has shown an ability to adjust the play calling to whoever is playing. Also, in recent weeks, Kap has been used in more classic, under center, formations, so those are still a big part of the offense. With Tolzien, we would probably not run the pistol, but blocking concepts and route trees can be converted to a regular singleback set. That's exactly what the Redskins did when RGIII missed a game. They kept the same plays, the same running plays and same routes on pass plays, only the shifted the QB from the pistol position to under center. So I don't think a back-up has to be a clone of Kap. As long as he's a capable passer and can make the reads.

I wouldn't compare Tolzien to a less athletic Alex Smith. To me, he's similar to Shaun Hill. Not a great arm, not particularly athletic, but just a gamer. He'll come into a game and play with a lot of guts, but with clear limitations.


True. I don't necessarily support a Kaep clone because the majority of athletic guys are also more erratic and turnover prone (see: Troy Smith). I personally would rather have Tolzien, but Harbaugh seems to go more toward QBs with "upside". And Shaun Hill is a good comparison. I was a big Shaun Hill fan and was pissed when we got rid of him. Shaun just had more of a middle-deep ball and threw a few more picks, whereas I view Scott as more of a short, checkdown guy like Alex.



I think Scott is an accurate enough intermediate passer. I remember his pre-season game against us, with SD. He dropped several mid-to-deep passes down the sideline. He won't really fit throwsin tight windows, but he has very good touch to drop a pass into a spot.

The problem with evaluating Scott, it's that we've never seen him against starters. We're under the impression that he's qualified to be our back-up, but we won't know until he faces real competition.
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wilmtalk


Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 182
Location: nor cal
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If my memory doesn't deceive me Johnson out played Tolzien but they picked Johnson because he was better suited as the clip board QB ( third stringer) than Johnson was. As a backup Johnson was superior in training camp. And has been pointed out by a previous poster he more closely resembles the skill set of Kaep.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wilmtalk wrote:
If my memory doesn't deceive me Johnson out played Tolzien but they picked Johnson because he was better suited as the clip board QB ( third stringer) than Johnson was. As a backup Johnson was superior in training camp. And has been pointed out by a previous poster he more closely resembles the skill set of Kaep.



Johnson really struggled until the last week of camp, when he seemed to really get it on. Tolzien is the more consistent of the two, while Josh can be hot and cold.
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cHaInBrEaKeRiii


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want us to sign Sanchez as our back up qb if the coaches think if Tolzien cant do the job. I think Harbaugh will do something out of Sanchez. He'll be a decent back up imo....
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steadypimpin


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
I want us to sign Sanchez as our back up qb if the coaches think if Tolzien cant do the job. I think Harbaugh will do something out of Sanchez. He'll be a decent back up imo....
maybe he would be a decent backup here but it won't be next year. The Jets have to keep him for next year due to his contract.
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o_0


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
I want us to sign Sanchez as our back up qb if the coaches think if Tolzien cant do the job. I think Harbaugh will do something out of Sanchez. He'll be a decent back up imo....

With that contract?


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One late season surge and postseason run doesn't make Kaep a better QB than Carson Palmer
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steadypimpin


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whos the good free agent backup quality qbs out there for us? I'd like to think we keep Kaep, Tolzien and bring in a rookie to be our third stringer.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2013/fa/track.html

Quote:
Joe Flacco BAL

Tarvaris Jackson BUF

Tyler Thigpen BUF

Derek Anderson CAR

Jason Campbell CHI

Josh McCown CHI

Bruce Gradkowski CIN

Rudy Carpenter DAL

Richard Bartel ARZ Restricted

John Beck FA

David Garrard FA

Stephen McGee FA

Donovan McNabb FA

Billy Volek SD

Vince Young FA

Drew Stanton IND

Brady Quinn KC

Matt Moore MIA

Chase Daniel NO

David Carr NYG

Matt Leinart OAK

Charlie Batch PIT

Byron Leftwich PIT

Rex Grossman WAS

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zmspartan82


Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2013/fa/track.html

Quote:
Joe Flacco BAL

Tarvaris Jackson BUF

Tyler Thigpen BUF

Derek Anderson CAR

Jason Campbell CHI

Josh McCown CHI

Bruce Gradkowski CIN

Rudy Carpenter DAL

Richard Bartel ARZ Restricted

John Beck FA

David Garrard FA

Stephen McGee FA

Donovan McNabb FA

Billy Volek SD

Vince Young FA

Drew Stanton IND

Brady Quinn KC

Matt Moore MIA

Chase Daniel NO

David Carr NYG

Matt Leinart OAK

Charlie Batch PIT

Byron Leftwich PIT

Rex Grossman WAS


Why do I see Harbaugh going after him?[/b]
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pure guess here - but I'm betting management is sold on Tolzein as our backup. I think we use a low round pick to try for a #3 QB, or maybe a cheap, experienced vet. But our future is Kap and Tolzein. We're probably not investing much more in a #3,
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zmspartan82 wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2013/fa/track.html

Quote:

Vince Young FA


Why do I see Harbaugh going after him?[/b]



Because people wrongly assume Harbaugh is a magician, and he could take any athletic QB and turn him into something good. As I said, it's a wrong assumption. Harbaugh isn't looking for a QB that can outrun defenders, or can throw the ball a mile. He's looking for "athletic instinct", a quality an athlete has to instinctively accomplish which is necessary to make a play. Look at Kaepernick's ability to throw on the run, for example, or how he can outmuscle the arm tackle of a would-be sacker. Vince young is just a good athlete playing quarterback, and if Harbaugh had had an opportunity to draft him, he would probably have passed. Harbaugh cannot teach him instincts in the pocket. He cannot teach him accuracy and ball placement. Harbaugh can only put a QB in a position to succeed, teach him what keys to read in a defense, and tailor plays to take advantage of a QB's strengths.

So no, I doubt we go for Vince Young.
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cHaInBrEaKeRiii


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

o_0 wrote:
cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
I want us to sign Sanchez as our back up qb if the coaches think if Tolzien cant do the job. I think Harbaugh will do something out of Sanchez. He'll be a decent back up imo....

With that contract?



No.. Not with the contract. I hope they release him and go after another QB.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
o_0 wrote:
cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
I want us to sign Sanchez as our back up qb if the coaches think if Tolzien cant do the job. I think Harbaugh will do something out of Sanchez. He'll be a decent back up imo....

With that contract?



No.. Not with the contract. I hope they release him and go after another QB.



Releasing him would be salary cap suicide...
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