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Billy Spikes
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Apollo Stallion
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Driving me nuts that his name isn't up there in MVP talk. There are certainly plenty of worthy candidates including Peyton, Brady, and Peterson (not buying Ryan), but the mere fact that a player can dominate games from a DE position in a 3-4 and has helped his team to a record superior to any of those at least warrants him being in the conversation. The other 4 also have each had bad games that have hurt their teams (see Brady in NE's 4 losses, 2 critical fumbles by AP and slow start, Peyton vs. Texans, etc) and if a bad game costs a QB a Heisman, why not and MVP. I think you would struggle to find anyone who has been as consistently dominant as JJ this season or putting up a more unique stat line than 20 sacks, 17 stuffs, 15 passes defense, 5 fumbles forced or recovered which is even more unprecidented than a RB rushing for 2k or Qbs looking at 4,500 yard seasons and 100 QBRs on teams that clearly are flush with talent unlike our defense that likely doesn't have another pro bowler this year. I don't think he has a prayer of winning, but like Mante Te'o, his name should be up there with the other 4. The Brady game definitely hurt Watt's chances and elevated Brady to frontrunner, but he was a beast in the Green Bay loss and Brady stunk up SF the very next week aside from a late run.
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texandominance
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Apollo Stallion wrote: | | Driving me nuts that his name isn't up there in MVP talk. There are certainly plenty of worthy candidates including Peyton, Brady, and Peterson (not buying Ryan), but the mere fact that a player can dominate games from a DE position in a 3-4 and has helped his team to a record superior to any of those at least warrants him being in the conversation. The other 4 also have each had bad games that have hurt their teams (see Brady in NE's 4 losses, 2 critical fumbles by AP and slow start, Peyton vs. Texans, etc) and if a bad game costs a QB a Heisman, why not and MVP. I think you would struggle to find anyone who has been as consistently dominant as JJ this season or putting up a more unique stat line than 20 sacks, 17 stuffs, 15 passes defense, 5 fumbles forced or recovered which is even more unprecidented than a RB rushing for 2k or Qbs looking at 4,500 yard seasons and 100 QBRs on teams that clearly are flush with talent unlike our defense that likely doesn't have another pro bowler this year. I don't think he has a prayer of winning, but like Mante Te'o, his name should be up there with the other 4. The Brady game definitely hurt Watt's chances and elevated Brady to frontrunner, but he was a beast in the Green Bay loss and Brady stunk up SF the very next week aside from a late run. |
The award is the "most valuable QB" not player. I think this year AP should win it. I have watched every Vikings game this year. With out AP, they are a 3 or 4 win team. He has carried them to a chance at the playoffs despite having a QB with terrible decision making and not another weapon on the offense.
Watt is having a great year and should finish second, but AP is by far the MVP. |
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Apollo Stallion
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| texandominance wrote: | | Apollo Stallion wrote: | | Driving me nuts that his name isn't up there in MVP talk. There are certainly plenty of worthy candidates including Peyton, Brady, and Peterson (not buying Ryan), but the mere fact that a player can dominate games from a DE position in a 3-4 and has helped his team to a record superior to any of those at least warrants him being in the conversation. The other 4 also have each had bad games that have hurt their teams (see Brady in NE's 4 losses, 2 critical fumbles by AP and slow start, Peyton vs. Texans, etc) and if a bad game costs a QB a Heisman, why not and MVP. I think you would struggle to find anyone who has been as consistently dominant as JJ this season or putting up a more unique stat line than 20 sacks, 17 stuffs, 15 passes defense, 5 fumbles forced or recovered which is even more unprecidented than a RB rushing for 2k or Qbs looking at 4,500 yard seasons and 100 QBRs on teams that clearly are flush with talent unlike our defense that likely doesn't have another pro bowler this year. I don't think he has a prayer of winning, but like Mante Te'o, his name should be up there with the other 4. The Brady game definitely hurt Watt's chances and elevated Brady to frontrunner, but he was a beast in the Green Bay loss and Brady stunk up SF the very next week aside from a late run. |
The award is the "most valuable QB" not player. I think this year AP should win it. I have watched every Vikings game this year. With out AP, they are a 3 or 4 win team. He has carried them to a chance at the playoffs despite having a QB with terrible decision making and not another weapon on the offense.
Watt is having a great year and should finish second, but AP is by far the MVP. |
I'm not quite sure on that one. I still think a case can be made for Andrew Luck and RGIII considering their teams won 2 and 5 games last year and are likely playoff teams this year despite their crappy defenses and Russell Wilson is starting to add his name to the conversation. It is amazing to me that once you add Alfred Morris and Doug Martin into that conversation of "where would their teams be without them" a case can be made for all 5 rookies to also be in the top 10 MVP conversation which has to be unprecidented. Heck, lets throw Blair Walsh into the rookie conversation as well as he's the Vikings 2nd best weapon as is Zuerlein in STL.
I don't see any back going off on a Wade Phillips defense for 200, so I don't see AP catching Dickerson and getting 2k didn't get CJ2K a single MVP vote in 2008 so I don't see why AP warrants an MVP for getting Minny to a 8-10 win season. Simple fact is that there is practically no correlation to APs yardage totals and whether Minny wins or loses as they've won games where he doesn't crack 100 and lost ones when he cracks 200. I also have a problem with APs lack of utility as a receiver and a blocker when Arian got ignored for awards when he was putting up 600 yards as essentially our #2 receiver in addition to leading the league in rushing. AP is having a monster season no doubt, but he is more appropriate for an offensive player of the year type and has me in Fantasy finals in 2 leagues, but running alone isn't "valuable" enough by itself to win games (see Jamaal Charles & Chris Johnson in the top 10). Aaron Rodgers on an average day vs. Minny was still worth more than AP cracking 200 and that's throwing to the likes of Randall Cobb and James James and James Starks and Alex Green plodding around.
Additionally, if I'm Matt Kalil or Phil Loadholt, I may be getting pretty sick about hearing about how AP is doing all of this despite a garbage offense. They did spend the #4 overall pick on a LT and ridding themselves of over the hill Hutchinson was addition by subtraction at guard. If a QB got a #4 pick to play with at Receiver would we ignore that as impactful in a spike in performance? Say what you will about Ponder, but that's still a #12 overall pick at QB with a QBR the same as Stafford and ahead of Andrew Luck, so lets stop acting as if that's John Skelton back there. Ultimately the difference between this year and last year is that their defense is giving up a full Td less each game and their kicker is nailing everything so they can win close games they once lost.
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Grasspike
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Apollo Stallion wrote: | | Driving me nuts that his name isn't up there in MVP talk. There are certainly plenty of worthy candidates including Peyton, Brady, and Peterson (not buying Ryan), but the mere fact that a player can dominate games from a DE position in a 3-4 and has helped his team to a record superior to any of those at least warrants him being in the conversation. The other 4 also have each had bad games that have hurt their teams (see Brady in NE's 4 losses, 2 critical fumbles by AP and slow start, Peyton vs. Texans, etc) and if a bad game costs a QB a Heisman, why not and MVP. I think you would struggle to find anyone who has been as consistently dominant as JJ this season or putting up a more unique stat line than 20 sacks, 17 stuffs, 15 passes defense, 5 fumbles forced or recovered which is even more unprecidented than a RB rushing for 2k or Qbs looking at 4,500 yard seasons and 100 QBRs on teams that clearly are flush with talent unlike our defense that likely doesn't have another pro bowler this year. I don't think he has a prayer of winning, but like Mante Te'o, his name should be up there with the other 4. The Brady game definitely hurt Watt's chances and elevated Brady to frontrunner, but he was a beast in the Green Bay loss and Brady stunk up SF the very next week aside from a late run. |
Let's make sure he gets DPOY first. Before his most recent game, a lot of pundits had Von Miller and Aldon Smith ahead of Watt for DPOY, which is absurd.
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Apollo Stallion
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Grasspike wrote: | | Apollo Stallion wrote: | | Driving me nuts that his name isn't up there in MVP talk. There are certainly plenty of worthy candidates including Peyton, Brady, and Peterson (not buying Ryan), but the mere fact that a player can dominate games from a DE position in a 3-4 and has helped his team to a record superior to any of those at least warrants him being in the conversation. The other 4 also have each had bad games that have hurt their teams (see Brady in NE's 4 losses, 2 critical fumbles by AP and slow start, Peyton vs. Texans, etc) and if a bad game costs a QB a Heisman, why not and MVP. I think you would struggle to find anyone who has been as consistently dominant as JJ this season or putting up a more unique stat line than 20 sacks, 17 stuffs, 15 passes defense, 5 fumbles forced or recovered which is even more unprecidented than a RB rushing for 2k or Qbs looking at 4,500 yard seasons and 100 QBRs on teams that clearly are flush with talent unlike our defense that likely doesn't have another pro bowler this year. I don't think he has a prayer of winning, but like Mante Te'o, his name should be up there with the other 4. The Brady game definitely hurt Watt's chances and elevated Brady to frontrunner, but he was a beast in the Green Bay loss and Brady stunk up SF the very next week aside from a late run. |
Let's make sure he gets DPOY first. Before his most recent game, a lot of pundits had Von Miller and Aldon Smith ahead of Watt for DPOY, which is absurd. |
They are having extraordinary seasons without question, but I'd like to see what kind of 2nd year step Aldon Smith would have taken without Patrick Willis and Justin Smith on board which is essentially what Watt has done without Cushing, Mario, DeMeco, and stretches without Reed and Joseph. Miller is closer, but Dumervil provides a second threat Watt hasn't enjoyed this year and you can't ignore the head to head battle where JJ helped take down Manning while Miller's d allowed Schaub to throw 4 tds and Arian to crack 100 yards in their house. Ultimately the swatted passes and run stuffs should render this a non battle as he just impacts more phases of the game than the other two. There are 7 3-4 OLBs with 10 sacks, the only other 3-4 DE I can find in the top 40 is his teammate Antonio Smith with 6. What he is doing from that spot is unprecedented and may be the best defensive season since Reggie White in 98 or Bruce Smith in 96.
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Rosstafarian
Joined: 04 Aug 2011
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Grasspike wrote: | | Apollo Stallion wrote: | | Driving me nuts that his name isn't up there in MVP talk. There are certainly plenty of worthy candidates including Peyton, Brady, and Peterson (not buying Ryan), but the mere fact that a player can dominate games from a DE position in a 3-4 and has helped his team to a record superior to any of those at least warrants him being in the conversation. The other 4 also have each had bad games that have hurt their teams (see Brady in NE's 4 losses, 2 critical fumbles by AP and slow start, Peyton vs. Texans, etc) and if a bad game costs a QB a Heisman, why not and MVP. I think you would struggle to find anyone who has been as consistently dominant as JJ this season or putting up a more unique stat line than 20 sacks, 17 stuffs, 15 passes defense, 5 fumbles forced or recovered which is even more unprecidented than a RB rushing for 2k or Qbs looking at 4,500 yard seasons and 100 QBRs on teams that clearly are flush with talent unlike our defense that likely doesn't have another pro bowler this year. I don't think he has a prayer of winning, but like Mante Te'o, his name should be up there with the other 4. The Brady game definitely hurt Watt's chances and elevated Brady to frontrunner, but he was a beast in the Green Bay loss and Brady stunk up SF the very next week aside from a late run. |
Let's make sure he gets DPOY first. Before his most recent game, a lot of pundits had Von Miller and Aldon Smith ahead of Watt for DPOY, which is absurd. |
I still think it would've been hard to argue Watt's impact on the Texans defense with relation to how much Smith and Miller impacts their respective defenses.
When was the last time you ever heard of a 3-4DE leading his team in tackles? It's absurd what Watt has done this season from what position he plays on defense. |
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