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Are we phasing out Vernon Davis?
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Miami49er


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there's one player on the team who can get open it's VD. He's too much of a talent to not be getting him the ball.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miami49er wrote:
If there's one player on the team who can get open it's VD. He's too much of a talent to not be getting him the ball.



And the saints game (playoffs) taught us he can be clutch.

When you have a good TE, you don't trade him. The Bears still regret trading Olsen (and they surely thank Mike Martz for that).
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Miami49er


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
If there's one player on the team who can get open it's VD. He's too much of a talent to not be getting him the ball.



And the saints game (playoffs) taught us he can be clutch.

When you have a good TE, you don't trade him. The Bears still regret trading Olsen (and they surely thank Mike Martz for that).
my point exactly. So why aren't we using him?
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miami49er wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
If there's one player on the team who can get open it's VD. He's too much of a talent to not be getting him the ball.



And the saints game (playoffs) taught us he can be clutch.

When you have a good TE, you don't trade him. The Bears still regret trading Olsen (and they surely thank Mike Martz for that).
my point exactly. So why aren't we using him?



Why aren't we using Moss more? Why didn't we dress LaMichael James for the first 12 games of the year? Why don't we play Larry Grant more on defense? Why has Perish Cox only played 5 defensive snaps all year (exaggeration.. I have no idea how many he played)? Simply because we haven't had to in order to win. It sucks for Vernon, because it's simply the result of circumstances. But on the other hand, we have used him a lot. Sadly for him, it was more as a blocker and a decoy than a receiving target. The only way VD leaves is if he gets discontent with his role with the team. But unless he asks for it, we have no reason to trade him. He is one of the best blocking TE in the league and always someone defenses have to worry about.
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xXFlyteXx


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
If there's one player on the team who can get open it's VD. He's too much of a talent to not be getting him the ball.



And the saints game (playoffs) taught us he can be clutch.

When you have a good TE, you don't trade him. The Bears still regret trading Olsen (and they surely thank Mike Martz for that).
my point exactly. So why aren't we using him?



Why aren't we using Moss more? Why didn't we dress LaMichael James for the first 12 games of the year? Why don't we play Larry Grant more on defense? Why has Perish Cox only played 5 defensive snaps all year (exaggeration.. I have no idea how many he played)? Simply because we haven't had to in order to win. It sucks for Vernon, because it's simply the result of circumstances. But on the other hand, we have used him a lot. Sadly for him, it was more as a blocker and a decoy than a receiving target. The only way VD leaves is if he gets discontent with his role with the team. But unless he asks for it, we have no reason to trade him. He is one of the best blocking TE in the league and always someone defenses have to worry about.



Ding Ding Ding We have a winner!
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neezy007


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrissooner49er wrote:
neezy007 wrote:
We're talking about trading Vernon Davis again? Awesome. He is going to blow up in the next few weeks like always.


Yes, the "Alex/Kaep" debate is dying, so there must be something else, right?! Laughing

I would love it if Vernon went off this week and continued throughout the playoffs and into the SB...and became the SB MVP! Cool


Don't worry this offseason prepare for some heated Dashon Goldson threads.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What tape s he watching? Davis attracted a lot of attention from defenses. It's pretty simple. The one play he was singled, they went deep to him last game. They could make more of an effort to get him involved, but as Moss said on the sideline, thi isn't because they dont like him. Defenses are respecting him.

As Crabtree, Moss, Delanie Walker (???) made the Pats pay on the outside, the middle was clogged up thanks to VD. Just until the coverage adjusts, and theyll feed VD again. They could be doing some pump fakes, setting him some picks, etc - but that would be forcing an issue unnecessarily.

What they REALLY need to do is send VD on a post deep right, while they swing a reverse to Manningham, who swings on a double reverse to MOSS, who LAUNCHES it 60 yards downfield to VD who is all alone. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neezy007 wrote:
Chrissooner49er wrote:
neezy007 wrote:
We're talking about trading Vernon Davis again? Awesome. He is going to blow up in the next few weeks like always.


Yes, the "Alex/Kaep" debate is dying, so there must be something else, right?! Laughing

I would love it if Vernon went off this week and continued throughout the playoffs and into the SB...and became the SB MVP! Cool


Don't worry this offseason prepare for some heated Dashon Goldson threads.


Eh, I think those will mostly be tame this year. Goldson has performed for the 2nd straight year which should ease folks' worries about him being a 1-year wonder. Plus, aside from Sopoaga and RJF, there's not many we need to worry about in the immediate sense to not get a deal for Goldson done, and even Sopoaga and RJF aren't as important. Last year it was easier to just keep Goldson at a franchise number and work out deals for Brooks, Rogers, and Bowman. This year, that should not be a problem (especially since we'll likely see Alex off the books).
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
What tape s he watching? Davis attracted a lot of attention from defenses. It's pretty simple. The one play he was singled, they went deep to him last game. They could make more of an effort to get him involved, but as Moss said on the sideline, thi isn't because they dont like him. Defenses are respecting him.

As Crabtree, Moss, Delanie Walker (???) made the Pats pay on the outside, the middle was clogged up thanks to VD. Just until the coverage adjusts, and theyll feed VD again. They could be doing some pump fakes, setting him some picks, etc - but that would be forcing an issue unnecessarily.

What they REALLY need to do is send VD on a post deep right, while they swing a reverse to Manningham, who swings on a double reverse to MOSS, who LAUNCHES it 60 yards downfield to VD who is all alone. Wink



I like your creativity, but knowing Greg Roman, he'd probably call that play when we're backed up in our own endzone.
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48 1/2ers


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
What tape s he watching? Davis attracted a lot of attention from defenses. It's pretty simple. The one play he was singled, they went deep to him last game. They could make more of an effort to get him involved, but as Moss said on the sideline, thi isn't because they dont like him. Defenses are respecting him.

As Crabtree, Moss, Delanie Walker (???) made the Pats pay on the outside, the middle was clogged up thanks to VD. Just until the coverage adjusts, and theyll feed VD again. They could be doing some pump fakes, setting him some picks, etc - but that would be forcing an issue unnecessarily.

What they REALLY need to do is send VD on a post deep right, while they swing a reverse to Manningham, who swings on a double reverse to MOSS, who LAUNCHES it 60 yards downfield to VD who is all alone. Wink



I like your creativity, but knowing Greg Roman, he'd probably call that play when we're backed up in our own endzone.


Laughing So true...my biggest offseason wish is for Greg Roman to get a head coaching job somewhere he is the most bipolar play caller I have ever seen.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

48 1/2ers wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
What tape s he watching? Davis attracted a lot of attention from defenses. It's pretty simple. The one play he was singled, they went deep to him last game. They could make more of an effort to get him involved, but as Moss said on the sideline, thi isn't because they dont like him. Defenses are respecting him.

As Crabtree, Moss, Delanie Walker (???) made the Pats pay on the outside, the middle was clogged up thanks to VD. Just until the coverage adjusts, and theyll feed VD again. They could be doing some pump fakes, setting him some picks, etc - but that would be forcing an issue unnecessarily.

What they REALLY need to do is send VD on a post deep right, while they swing a reverse to Manningham, who swings on a double reverse to MOSS, who LAUNCHES it 60 yards downfield to VD who is all alone. Wink



I like your creativity, but knowing Greg Roman, he'd probably call that play when we're backed up in our own endzone.


Laughing So true...my biggest offseason wish is for Greg Roman to get a head coaching job somewhere he is the most bipolar play caller I have ever seen.



In his defense, he is better than last year, so there's that. And if he comes back next year, along with perhaps getting better at what he does, an experienced Kap will probably make him look even better. Just remember Kap's 50 yarder against the Rams. Some say it was a designed run, others say it was a broken play... it just so happened that as the play broke (or not), Kap had two blockers on the right side that helped him get to the sideline, where he simply outran people. Is it possible to design plays as to be dangerous in case they're breaking down? The passing options are covered? No problem, we got blockers on the other side!
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48 1/2ers


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
48 1/2ers wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
What tape s he watching? Davis attracted a lot of attention from defenses. It's pretty simple. The one play he was singled, they went deep to him last game. They could make more of an effort to get him involved, but as Moss said on the sideline, thi isn't because they dont like him. Defenses are respecting him.

As Crabtree, Moss, Delanie Walker (???) made the Pats pay on the outside, the middle was clogged up thanks to VD. Just until the coverage adjusts, and theyll feed VD again. They could be doing some pump fakes, setting him some picks, etc - but that would be forcing an issue unnecessarily.

What they REALLY need to do is send VD on a post deep right, while they swing a reverse to Manningham, who swings on a double reverse to MOSS, who LAUNCHES it 60 yards downfield to VD who is all alone. Wink



I like your creativity, but knowing Greg Roman, he'd probably call that play when we're backed up in our own endzone.


Laughing So true...my biggest offseason wish is for Greg Roman to get a head coaching job somewhere he is the most bipolar play caller I have ever seen.



In his defense, he is better than last year, so there's that. And if he comes back next year, along with perhaps getting better at what he does, an experienced Kap will probably make him look even better. Just remember Kap's 50 yarder against the Rams. Some say it was a designed run, others say it was a broken play... it just so happened that as the play broke (or not), Kap had two blockers on the right side that helped him get to the sideline, where he simply outran people. Is it possible to design plays as to be dangerous in case they're breaking down? The passing options are covered? No problem, we got blockers on the other side!

There's a long list of things I can nitpick at as to the reason I'm not a fan of Roman but there are just as many things that got him to the level he's at so I'll just leave it at that, I dont want to completely hijack the thread.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
What tape s he watching? Davis attracted a lot of attention from defenses. It's pretty simple. The one play he was singled, they went deep to him last game. They could make more of an effort to get him involved, but as Moss said on the sideline, thi isn't because they dont like him. Defenses are respecting him.

As Crabtree, Moss, Delanie Walker (???) made the Pats pay on the outside, the middle was clogged up thanks to VD. Just until the coverage adjusts, and theyll feed VD again. They could be doing some pump fakes, setting him some picks, etc - but that would be forcing an issue unnecessarily.

What they REALLY need to do is send VD on a post deep right, while they swing a reverse to Manningham, who swings on a double reverse to MOSS, who LAUNCHES it 60 yards downfield to VD who is all alone. Wink


You posted something that didn't annoy me. I think I'm warming up to you NBT.
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Gridirongreat#9


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ataal wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
sherm wrote:
Don't agree with not using VD on purpose I just think he's struggled with this offense all the way back to last yr(even in the playoffs teams gave VD his old routes). But I do think he isn't the ideal TE Harbaugh wants. I bet we draft a TE high(2nd or 3rd rd) in the next yr or 2. I don't see a trade...he's still a great weapon to have teams game plan for even if he isn't getting the gm targets.


I agree with this....especially the part about VD's struggle with the offense. I wonder if with the addition of Kaep if Harbs and co. ahve opened up the playbook a liitle more, thus forcing VD to know and understand more deep routes and maybe more option routes?

I dont forsee a trade or a change at the position in the near future. VD is too much of a talent. I think there will come a time when he gets his, but i dont think we can just discount Miami's opinion like some did above. It's not right that he only gets a few targets a game. He needs to see 5 a game at least.
exactly. We don't even throw him the ball. It has nothing to do with him playing bad. He's not even given an opportunity to have a good game. A talent like VD barely getting targeted twice a game is beyond suspect.


But, is he open? That's the real question in my mind. Without coaching tape, I can't argue that case either way. The few times we have targeted him lately, he wasn't able to do much. Granted, there were a couple plays where he was overthrown, too.

It just seems like a trend to me with what little information I have.




Thats the issue. He is getting doubled most often. Teams are saying we will take our chances with Crabtree beating us rather than Davis. The Bears game was one of the few games that they single covered and played man across the board and he made them pay. Once MM comes back Davis will be back to catching passes.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neezy007 wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
What tape s he watching? Davis attracted a lot of attention from defenses. It's pretty simple. The one play he was singled, they went deep to him last game. They could make more of an effort to get him involved, but as Moss said on the sideline, thi isn't because they dont like him. Defenses are respecting him.

As Crabtree, Moss, Delanie Walker (???) made the Pats pay on the outside, the middle was clogged up thanks to VD. Just until the coverage adjusts, and theyll feed VD again. They could be doing some pump fakes, setting him some picks, etc - but that would be forcing an issue unnecessarily.

What they REALLY need to do is send VD on a post deep right, while they swing a reverse to Manningham, who swings on a double reverse to MOSS, who LAUNCHES it 60 yards downfield to VD who is all alone. Wink


You posted something that didn't annoy me. I think I'm warming up to you NBT.


Wait until you start agreeing with him. That's like level 4 of what I call "The NBT/Pet Tarantula Scale"
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