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Miami49er
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 6636
Location: Miami, FL (Wade County)
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:32 am Post subject: Are we phasing out Vernon Davis? |
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I was listening to Maiocco on 957 the game, and he was talking about how Vernon has been non existent and it's not a chemistry issue with Kap like Vernon says. Because before the Chicago game he wasn't getting any catches with Alex either. Not only that, but he's barely targeted. Delanie bleeping Walker gets more targets than VD does. I think Harbaugh wants a more natural pass catcher and good route runner at TE (like a Jason Witten for example) and not necessarily just a freak athlete with stone hands and not a great route runner. I mean, the proof is in the pudding. We're winning games with VD virtually non existent. I kind of agree. I love VD but the past 7 or 8 games have shown we don't need an expensive freak at TE but a more natural pass catching TE like Gronk or Jimmy Graham. You guys think we should or would trade him in the off season. I'm sure we would get a king's ransom for him.
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rudyZ
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 12839
Location: Québec
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: |
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I don't think we should trade him. He can still be a monster for us. It's just in the way we use him. Don't make him catch deep throws over his shoulders. He can't track balls high. Just throw him more slants, crossing routes, hooks, curls, ins and outs, etc. Sometimes he tries to do too much after the catch, and he's not that agile. But if he gets the ball in stride, he can outrun anyone and make plays. Remember the saints game. His long gains weren't deep throws. They were short slants, with the ball between the numbers, and he made defenders miss because he had a full head of steam.
It would be a shame to get rid of VD. We keep saying how Delanie is important to our running game, but let's not forget VD. How often is he blocking a DE all by himself on running plays? 50% of running plays? A lesser TE couldn't do that, and we'd have to use an OL to block the DE, whereas we can now use the RT to block at the second level.
If we win and Vernon isn't becoming a problem in the locker room, we shouldn't trade him.
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sherm
Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 1627
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Don't agree with not using VD on purpose I just think he's struggled with this offense all the way back to last yr(even in the playoffs teams gave VD his old routes). But I do think he isn't the ideal TE Harbaugh wants. I bet we draft a TE high(2nd or 3rd rd) in the next yr or 2. I don't see a trade...he's still a great weapon to have teams game plan for even if he isn't getting the gm targets.
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2009- Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan - 64 Tck 26 TFL 10.5 sacks
2010- Sam Acho, DE, Texas - 59 tck, 17 TFL, 9 sacks, 5 FF, 5 FR |
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Chrissooner49er
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 3855
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:01 am Post subject: |
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If Harbaugh wanted a "More natural pass catcher", then why did he pass on Coby Fleener?! For TEs, you don't get much better than him at being a "natural pass catcher". So, I think your reasoning is flawed. VD probably has it more correct and you may be overthinking things, IMO.
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Fleener: 21 Recs 222yds 86 YAC Walker: 7 Recs 89yds 13YAC |
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Miami49er
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 6636
Location: Miami, FL (Wade County)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| sherm wrote: | | Don't agree with not using VD on purpose I just think he's struggled with this offense all the way back to last yr(even in the playoffs teams gave VD his old routes). But I do think he isn't the ideal TE Harbaugh wants. I bet we draft a TE high(2nd or 3rd rd) in the next yr or 2. I don't see a trade...he's still a great weapon to have teams game plan for even if he isn't getting the gm targets. |
i don't think it's on purpose either. I just don't think he's the type of TE Harbaugh wants or needs. Of he cn get his hands on a TE in the draft then VD makes excellent trade bait IMO.
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Miami49er
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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Location: Miami, FL (Wade County)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Chrissooner49er wrote: | | If Harbaugh wanted a "More natural pass catcher", then why did he pass on Coby Fleener?! For TEs, you don't get much better than him at being a "natural pass catcher". So, I think your reasoning is flawed. VD probably has it more correct and you may be overthinking things, IMO. |
a TE that high in the draft wasn't a necessity at the time. I'm just saying VD just has not been a high priority in the passing game. I don't care how a defense is playing him, you find ways to get him the ball. He's not the only #1 option that defenses gear to stop. He's only target once or twice at most. Even Maiocco hinted that there's more going on then meets the eye.
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Chrissooner49er
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Miami49er wrote: | | sherm wrote: | | Don't agree with not using VD on purpose I just think he's struggled with this offense all the way back to last yr(even in the playoffs teams gave VD his old routes). But I do think he isn't the ideal TE Harbaugh wants. I bet we draft a TE high(2nd or 3rd rd) in the next yr or 2. I don't see a trade...he's still a great weapon to have teams game plan for even if he isn't getting the gm targets. |
i don't think it's on purpose either. I just don't think he's the type of TE Harbaugh wants or needs. Of he cn get his hands on a TE in the draft then VD makes excellent trade bait IMO. |
You may be making a mountain out of a molehill...
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fa·nat·ic (f-ntk)
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Fleener: 21 Recs 222yds 86 YAC Walker: 7 Recs 89yds 13YAC |
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mrscottso
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 10059
Location: NY
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Chrissooner49er wrote: | | Miami49er wrote: | | sherm wrote: | | Don't agree with not using VD on purpose I just think he's struggled with this offense all the way back to last yr(even in the playoffs teams gave VD his old routes). But I do think he isn't the ideal TE Harbaugh wants. I bet we draft a TE high(2nd or 3rd rd) in the next yr or 2. I don't see a trade...he's still a great weapon to have teams game plan for even if he isn't getting the gm targets. |
i don't think it's on purpose either. I just don't think he's the type of TE Harbaugh wants or needs. Of he cn get his hands on a TE in the draft then VD makes excellent trade bait IMO. |
You may be making a mountain out of a molehill... |
Defintely. He will be making plays soon enough again.
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Miami49er
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 6636
Location: Miami, FL (Wade County)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Chrissooner49er wrote: | | Miami49er wrote: | | sherm wrote: | | Don't agree with not using VD on purpose I just think he's struggled with this offense all the way back to last yr(even in the playoffs teams gave VD his old routes). But I do think he isn't the ideal TE Harbaugh wants. I bet we draft a TE high(2nd or 3rd rd) in the next yr or 2. I don't see a trade...he's still a great weapon to have teams game plan for even if he isn't getting the gm targets. |
i don't think it's on purpose either. I just don't think he's the type of TE Harbaugh wants or needs. Of he cn get his hands on a TE in the draft then VD makes excellent trade bait IMO. |
You may be making a mountain out of a molehill... |
maybe I am. But I just don't see why he's not even targeted.
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Ataal
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Posts: 2373
Location: Avondale, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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If you'll remember, Vernon did the exact same thing last year. Started out okay, then went non-existent until the playoffs. It just looks like a trend to me. However, if he doesn't show up in the playoffs this year, it may be a good time to see what he's worth to other teams.
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neezy007
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 8796
Location: El Paso
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| We're talking about trading Vernon Davis again? Awesome. He is going to blow up in the next few weeks like always. |
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clarkfn2284
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 3091
Location: Modesto,CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| sherm wrote: | | Don't agree with not using VD on purpose I just think he's struggled with this offense all the way back to last yr(even in the playoffs teams gave VD his old routes). But I do think he isn't the ideal TE Harbaugh wants. I bet we draft a TE high(2nd or 3rd rd) in the next yr or 2. I don't see a trade...he's still a great weapon to have teams game plan for even if he isn't getting the gm targets. |
I agree with this....especially the part about VD's struggle with the offense. I wonder if with the addition of Kaep if Harbs and co. ahve opened up the playbook a liitle more, thus forcing VD to know and understand more deep routes and maybe more option routes?
I dont forsee a trade or a change at the position in the near future. VD is too much of a talent. I think there will come a time when he gets his, but i dont think we can just discount Miami's opinion like some did above. It's not right that he only gets a few targets a game. He needs to see 5 a game at least.
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| NextBigThing wrote: | | rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume |
okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears. |
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Chrissooner49er
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 3855
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| neezy007 wrote: | | We're talking about trading Vernon Davis again? Awesome. He is going to blow up in the next few weeks like always. |
Yes, the "Alex/Kaep" debate is dying, so there must be something else, right?! 
I would love it if Vernon went off this week and continued throughout the playoffs and into the SB...and became the SB MVP! 
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fa·nat·ic (f-ntk)
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Fleener: 21 Recs 222yds 86 YAC Walker: 7 Recs 89yds 13YAC |
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Miami49er
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 6636
Location: Miami, FL (Wade County)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| clarkfn2284 wrote: | | sherm wrote: | | Don't agree with not using VD on purpose I just think he's struggled with this offense all the way back to last yr(even in the playoffs teams gave VD his old routes). But I do think he isn't the ideal TE Harbaugh wants. I bet we draft a TE high(2nd or 3rd rd) in the next yr or 2. I don't see a trade...he's still a great weapon to have teams game plan for even if he isn't getting the gm targets. |
I agree with this....especially the part about VD's struggle with the offense. I wonder if with the addition of Kaep if Harbs and co. ahve opened up the playbook a liitle more, thus forcing VD to know and understand more deep routes and maybe more option routes?
I dont forsee a trade or a change at the position in the near future. VD is too much of a talent. I think there will come a time when he gets his, but i dont think we can just discount Miami's opinion like some did above. It's not right that he only gets a few targets a game. He needs to see 5 a game at least. |
exactly. We don't even throw him the ball. It has nothing to do with him playing bad. He's not even given an opportunity to have a good game. A talent like VD barely getting targeted twice a game is beyond suspect.
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Ataal
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Posts: 2373
Location: Avondale, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Miami49er wrote: | | clarkfn2284 wrote: | | sherm wrote: | | Don't agree with not using VD on purpose I just think he's struggled with this offense all the way back to last yr(even in the playoffs teams gave VD his old routes). But I do think he isn't the ideal TE Harbaugh wants. I bet we draft a TE high(2nd or 3rd rd) in the next yr or 2. I don't see a trade...he's still a great weapon to have teams game plan for even if he isn't getting the gm targets. |
I agree with this....especially the part about VD's struggle with the offense. I wonder if with the addition of Kaep if Harbs and co. ahve opened up the playbook a liitle more, thus forcing VD to know and understand more deep routes and maybe more option routes?
I dont forsee a trade or a change at the position in the near future. VD is too much of a talent. I think there will come a time when he gets his, but i dont think we can just discount Miami's opinion like some did above. It's not right that he only gets a few targets a game. He needs to see 5 a game at least. |
exactly. We don't even throw him the ball. It has nothing to do with him playing bad. He's not even given an opportunity to have a good game. A talent like VD barely getting targeted twice a game is beyond suspect. |
But, is he open? That's the real question in my mind. Without coaching tape, I can't argue that case either way. The few times we have targeted him lately, he wasn't able to do much. Granted, there were a couple plays where he was overthrown, too.
It just seems like a trend to me with what little information I have.
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