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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

attack_in_s/b wrote:

What i don't understand is these moves that seem to do more harm than good... like trading DMAC for a 3rd and 6th.... why? Who are we gonna get in the 3rd or 6th thats gonna turn this team around? Than our ground game will be significantly worse... where is the benefit in that?

I'm open to trading DMC, but provided that its worth our while and we are actually getting something out of it... not just trading for the sake of trading him... if the values not there that's fine... but why force a trade? IMO we have a lot bigger problems than a shortage of mid round picks...


McFadden has had 2 games with a YPC over 4 yards, and 6 games under 3. 2 of his 100 yard games required 29+ carries to get there. We can be giving that guy 30 carries a game, he wont last 5 games next year. The reason to trade him is because 1) he keeps getting hurt 2) he is set to make $5.8M 3) he has not been nearly effective enough to keep him for that price. As for not needing mid-round pick, I disagree. Not only do we lack talent, but we also lack depth. Hence why we had a PS RB playing for us and our FS playing CB all year. McFadden's value is low. If a team gives up a 1st or 2nd for a RB, its gonna be for a guy they can lean on to carry their ground game. I'm just not sure anyone is willing to bet that much on a guy who has missed 3, 4, 3, 9, and 4 games in his 5 years, who is coming off one of his worst seasons as a pro.

And FYI, our run game actually got better when McFadden was out and we had Reece/Goodson/Stewart in there:
-w/ McFadden we've averaged 88.2 YPG (882 yds/10 games) * and Goodson accounted for 200 of those yards
-w/o McFadden we'eve averaged 94 YPG (376 yds/4 games)

Just sayin'...
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
If Myers wants $4M a year, then yea let him walk. But odds are he won't, and if he remains cheap we would be smart to keep him around, rather than weaken our team even more.


I'm not quite sure why. Wen did a FA coming off a statistically very productive season settle for a cheap contract?
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
If Myers wants $4M a year, then yea let him walk. But odds are he won't, and if he remains cheap we would be smart to keep him around, rather than weaken our team even more.


I'm not quite sure why. Wen did a FA coming off a statistically very productive season settle for a cheap contract?


Well if teams feel he is as average as people in here seem to do, then they wont break the bank to get him. And if stats arent all that matter, they wont just be looking at his stats from this season. I'm not expecting him to sign for $600K or anything, but if Witten and Gonzo make under $4M, I dont see Myers getting close to that.
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I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that


Last edited by ZoomWaffle on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:

I can't begin to put up a list of the players who weren't beating out the incumbent starter and who turned out to be better when they were finally given a shot. For example, Myers last year...
I won't tell you this would happen as well with Ausberry, it's just that your point doesn't hold much weight imo.

Anyway, i just hope we don't sign Myers to a huge contract and make the same mistake we did with Branch. If he's cheap, it's fine.


Thats pretty different. Its not about being a backup, its his whole situation. How often does it happen when a guy has been converted to a new position and hasnt shown the staff enough to warrant playing time? IIRC, Myers got a decent amount of playing time for a backup, even when Boss and Miller were here.

I'm fine with a backup taking over, but I'm uneasy when that backup is still learning the position. I dont want a project player starting until he is no longer a project.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
If Myers wants $4M a year, then yea let him walk. But odds are he won't, and if he remains cheap we would be smart to keep him around, rather than weaken our team even more.


I'm not quite sure why. Wen did a FA coming off a statistically very productive season settle for a cheap contract?


Well if teams feel he is as average as people in here seem to do, then they wont break the bank to get him. And if stats arent all that matter, they wont just be looking at his stats from this season. I'm not expecting him to sign for $600K or anything, but if Witten and Gonzo make under $4M, I dont see Myers getting close to that.


Some teams are likely to overvalue Myers. It happens every year.

If the 4M you're refering to is what his cap hit or base salary in 2013 will be, then i agree with you, he will be under that. The yearly value of his contract is likely to be over though. The yearly value for an elite TE is around 7M. I woudn't be shocked if he's looking for something in the 5 to 6M range.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
If Myers wants $4M a year, then yea let him walk. But odds are he won't, and if he remains cheap we would be smart to keep him around, rather than weaken our team even more.


I'm not quite sure why. Wen did a FA coming off a statistically very productive season settle for a cheap contract?


Well if teams feel he is as average as people in here seem to do, then they wont break the bank to get him. And if stats arent all that matter, they wont just be looking at his stats from this season. I'm not expecting him to sign for $600K or anything, but if Witten and Gonzo make under $4M, I dont see Myers getting close to that.


Some teams are likely to overvalue Myers. It happens every year.

If the 4M you're refering to is what his cap hit or base salary in 2013 will be, then i agree with you, he will be under that. The yearly value of his contract is likely to be over though. The yearly value for an elite TE is around 7M. I woudn't be shocked if he's looking for something in the 5 to 6M range.


There is a huge difference between the elites and Myers. If a team doesnt recognize that, and offers him anywhere close to $6M, they not only are they insane, but I wish Mr. Myers the best of luck in his new city. I dont see Reggie forking out that kind of money to a TE right now, but I also dont see him and Allen rolling with Ausberry as a starter. If Myers walks, we will sign another TE.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
If Myers wants $4M a year, then yea let him walk. But odds are he won't, and if he remains cheap we would be smart to keep him around, rather than weaken our team even more.


I'm not quite sure why. Wen did a FA coming off a statistically very productive season settle for a cheap contract?


Well if teams feel he is as average as people in here seem to do, then they wont break the bank to get him. And if stats arent all that matter, they wont just be looking at his stats from this season. I'm not expecting him to sign for $600K or anything, but if Witten and Gonzo make under $4M, I dont see Myers getting close to that.


Some teams are likely to overvalue Myers. It happens every year.

If the 4M you're refering to is what his cap hit or base salary in 2013 will be, then i agree with you, he will be under that. The yearly value of his contract is likely to be over though. The yearly value for an elite TE is around 7M. I woudn't be shocked if he's looking for something in the 5 to 6M range.


There is a huge difference between the elites and Myers. If a team doesnt recognize that, and offers him anywhere close to $6M, they not only are they insane, but I wish Mr. Myers the best of luck in his new city. I dont see Reggie forking out that kind of money to a TE right now, but I also dont see him and Allen rolling with Ausberry as a starter. If Myers walks, we will sign another TE.


There is but elite players set the market for a position and non elite players try to come as close as possible to that whenever they hit FA. Also, 5 to 6M is a range and 6 isn't very likely. Zach Miller got 6.8M.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
If Myers wants $4M a year, then yea let him walk. But odds are he won't, and if he remains cheap we would be smart to keep him around, rather than weaken our team even more.


I'm not quite sure why. Wen did a FA coming off a statistically very productive season settle for a cheap contract?


Well if teams feel he is as average as people in here seem to do, then they wont break the bank to get him. And if stats arent all that matter, they wont just be looking at his stats from this season. I'm not expecting him to sign for $600K or anything, but if Witten and Gonzo make under $4M, I dont see Myers getting close to that.


Some teams are likely to overvalue Myers. It happens every year.

If the 4M you're refering to is what his cap hit or base salary in 2013 will be, then i agree with you, he will be under that. The yearly value of his contract is likely to be over though. The yearly value for an elite TE is around 7M. I woudn't be shocked if he's looking for something in the 5 to 6M range.


There is a huge difference between the elites and Myers. If a team doesnt recognize that, and offers him anywhere close to $6M, they not only are they insane, but I wish Mr. Myers the best of luck in his new city. I dont see Reggie forking out that kind of money to a TE right now, but I also dont see him and Allen rolling with Ausberry as a starter. If Myers walks, we will sign another TE.


There is but elite players set the market for a position and non elite players try to come as close as possible to that whenever they hit FA. Also, 5 to 6M is a range and 6 isn't very likely. Zach Miller got 6.8M.


Difference is Zach Miller had been balling in years prior. He was Pro Bowl caliber for like 2 or 3 years. Myers is still a nobody to most people around the league despite this year.
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reddevil


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
attack_in_s/b wrote:

What i don't understand is these moves that seem to do more harm than good... like trading DMAC for a 3rd and 6th.... why? Who are we gonna get in the 3rd or 6th thats gonna turn this team around? Than our ground game will be significantly worse... where is the benefit in that?

I'm open to trading DMC, but provided that its worth our while and we are actually getting something out of it... not just trading for the sake of trading him... if the values not there that's fine... but why force a trade? IMO we have a lot bigger problems than a shortage of mid round picks...


McFadden has had 2 games with a YPC over 4 yards, and 6 games under 3. 2 of his 100 yard games required 29+ carries to get there. We can be giving that guy 30 carries a game, he wont last 5 games next year. The reason to trade him is because 1) he keeps getting hurt 2) he is set to make $5.8M 3) he has not been nearly effective enough to keep him for that price. As for not needing mid-round pick, I disagree. Not only do we lack talent, but we also lack depth. Hence why we had a PS RB playing for us and our FS playing CB all year. McFadden's value is low. If a team gives up a 1st or 2nd for a RB, its gonna be for a guy they can lean on to carry their ground game. I'm just not sure anyone is willing to bet that much on a guy who has missed 3, 4, 3, 9, and 4 games in his 5 years, who is coming off one of his worst seasons as a pro.

And FYI, our run game actually got better when McFadden was out and we had Reece/Goodson/Stewart in there:
-w/ McFadden we've averaged 88.2 YPG (882 yds/10 games) * and Goodson accounted for 200 of those yards
-w/o McFadden we'eve averaged 94 YPG (376 yds/4 games)

Just sayin'...


+1. We absolutely need mid-round picks. I would jump on a 3rd and 6th for DMC as much as I like the guy, we need to move on if we are sticking with ZBS and these days RBs are a dime a dozen and you can pick one up in FA or in the late rounds to do just as effective a job.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
If Myers wants $4M a year, then yea let him walk. But odds are he won't, and if he remains cheap we would be smart to keep him around, rather than weaken our team even more.


I'm not quite sure why. Wen did a FA coming off a statistically very productive season settle for a cheap contract?


Well if teams feel he is as average as people in here seem to do, then they wont break the bank to get him. And if stats arent all that matter, they wont just be looking at his stats from this season. I'm not expecting him to sign for $600K or anything, but if Witten and Gonzo make under $4M, I dont see Myers getting close to that.


Some teams are likely to overvalue Myers. It happens every year.

If the 4M you're refering to is what his cap hit or base salary in 2013 will be, then i agree with you, he will be under that. The yearly value of his contract is likely to be over though. The yearly value for an elite TE is around 7M. I woudn't be shocked if he's looking for something in the 5 to 6M range.


There is a huge difference between the elites and Myers. If a team doesnt recognize that, and offers him anywhere close to $6M, they not only are they insane, but I wish Mr. Myers the best of luck in his new city. I dont see Reggie forking out that kind of money to a TE right now, but I also dont see him and Allen rolling with Ausberry as a starter. If Myers walks, we will sign another TE.


There is but elite players set the market for a position and non elite players try to come as close as possible to that whenever they hit FA. Also, 5 to 6M is a range and 6 isn't very likely. Zach Miller got 6.8M.


Difference is Zach Miller had been balling in years prior. He was Pro Bowl caliber for like 2 or 3 years. Myers is still a nobody to most people around the league despite this year.


this. plus he cant block for crap. myers might get top 15-20 te money but thats it imo.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
If Myers wants $4M a year, then yea let him walk. But odds are he won't, and if he remains cheap we would be smart to keep him around, rather than weaken our team even more.


I'm not quite sure why. Wen did a FA coming off a statistically very productive season settle for a cheap contract?


Well if teams feel he is as average as people in here seem to do, then they wont break the bank to get him. And if stats arent all that matter, they wont just be looking at his stats from this season. I'm not expecting him to sign for $600K or anything, but if Witten and Gonzo make under $4M, I dont see Myers getting close to that.


Some teams are likely to overvalue Myers. It happens every year.

If the 4M you're refering to is what his cap hit or base salary in 2013 will be, then i agree with you, he will be under that. The yearly value of his contract is likely to be over though. The yearly value for an elite TE is around 7M. I woudn't be shocked if he's looking for something in the 5 to 6M range.


There is a huge difference between the elites and Myers. If a team doesnt recognize that, and offers him anywhere close to $6M, they not only are they insane, but I wish Mr. Myers the best of luck in his new city. I dont see Reggie forking out that kind of money to a TE right now, but I also dont see him and Allen rolling with Ausberry as a starter. If Myers walks, we will sign another TE.


There is but elite players set the market for a position and non elite players try to come as close as possible to that whenever they hit FA. Also, 5 to 6M is a range and 6 isn't very likely. Zach Miller got 6.8M.


Difference is Zach Miller had been balling in years prior. He was Pro Bowl caliber for like 2 or 3 years. Myers is still a nobody to most people around the league despite this year.


That's probably why i'm not expecting him to get as much. Anyway, i'd be shocked if he was re-signed for cheap prior to the free agency period, he's going to test the market and imo, someone will bite.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most likely. I'm not saying he's great, but I'd prefer not to lose him. He's shown he's capable of producing and I really don't want to have another hole to fill on our roster. If he gets ridiculous with his salary demands then screw him but I don't think he will
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Most likely. I'm not saying he's great, but I'd prefer not to lose him. He's shown he's capable of producing and I really don't want to have another hole to fill on our roster. If he gets ridiculous with his salary demands then screw him but I don't think he will


Wheeler is a guy who will excel with more talent around him. He's a solid role player who can make some plays.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Most likely. I'm not saying he's great, but I'd prefer not to lose him. He's shown he's capable of producing and I really don't want to have another hole to fill on our roster. If he gets ridiculous with his salary demands then screw him but I don't think he will


Wheeler is a guy who will excel with more talent around him. He's a solid role player who can make some plays.


I agree, but I was talking about Myers....
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Most likely. I'm not saying he's great, but I'd prefer not to lose him. He's shown he's capable of producing and I really don't want to have another hole to fill on our roster. If he gets ridiculous with his salary demands then screw him but I don't think he will


Wheeler is a guy who will excel with more talent around him. He's a solid role player who can make some plays.


I agree, but I was talking about Myers....


My bad. Same goes for Myers. Solid role player. If the Raiders had better WR threats, it'd open up more for him.
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