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Why do many fans have a negative perception of A.J Hawk?
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bkobow05


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be worse, he could have ended up like Aaron Curry.

I don't mind Hawk. I just hate when he tries to tackle high and gets pushed back like 5 yards.
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GoPackGo


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is prone to that, yep, but have any of you EVER seen Hawk take a play off? Maybe he misses tackles, isn't always sound in his fundamentals, but dude NEVER misses a beat or lacks trying. Palmy always mentions those guys that get every drip of talent out of their body. Hawk is one of those types IMO.
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SDN40


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoPackGo wrote:
He is prone to that, yep, but have any of you EVER seen Hawk take a play off? Maybe he misses tackles, isn't always sound in his fundamentals, but dude NEVER misses a beat or lacks trying. Palmy always mentions those guys that get every drip of talent out of their body. Hawk is one of those types IMO.


And those guys are a dime a dozen in the 7th round. They may even force a fumble or get a tackle for loss or maybe even a sack once in a while.
Hell I won't take a play off for half the price
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GoPackGo


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDN40 wrote:
GoPackGo wrote:
He is prone to that, yep, but have any of you EVER seen Hawk take a play off? Maybe he misses tackles, isn't always sound in his fundamentals, but dude NEVER misses a beat or lacks trying. Palmy always mentions those guys that get every drip of talent out of their body. Hawk is one of those types IMO.


And those guys are a dime a dozen in the 7th round. They may even force a fumble or get a tackle for loss or maybe even a sack once in a while.
Hell I won't take a play off for half the price


Apparently they aren't, because we haven't found anyone better to replace him.
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TheGreatZepp


Joined: 27 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDN40 wrote:
GoPackGo wrote:
He is prone to that, yep, but have any of you EVER seen Hawk take a play off? Maybe he misses tackles, isn't always sound in his fundamentals, but dude NEVER misses a beat or lacks trying. Palmy always mentions those guys that get every drip of talent out of their body. Hawk is one of those types IMO.


And those guys are a dime a dozen in the 7th round. They may even force a fumble or get a tackle for loss or maybe even a sack once in a while.
Hell I won't take a play off for half the price
Aren't guards also a dime a dozen? Same with RB's?

Cut Pickett and throw a cheap big body there, they'll perform the same right? Pickett doesn't make any splash plays, and those types are a dime a dozen.

Generalizing never works...
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SDN40


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoPackGo wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
GoPackGo wrote:
He is prone to that, yep, but have any of you EVER seen Hawk take a play off? Maybe he misses tackles, isn't always sound in his fundamentals, but dude NEVER misses a beat or lacks trying. Palmy always mentions those guys that get every drip of talent out of their body. Hawk is one of those types IMO.


And those guys are a dime a dozen in the 7th round. They may even force a fumble or get a tackle for loss or maybe even a sack once in a while.
Hell I won't take a play off for half the price


Apparently they aren't, because we haven't found anyone better to replace him.


We haven't replaced Crosby yet either, but it doesn't make him suck any less.
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GoPackGo


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDN40 wrote:
GoPackGo wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
GoPackGo wrote:
He is prone to that, yep, but have any of you EVER seen Hawk take a play off? Maybe he misses tackles, isn't always sound in his fundamentals, but dude NEVER misses a beat or lacks trying. Palmy always mentions those guys that get every drip of talent out of their body. Hawk is one of those types IMO.


And those guys are a dime a dozen in the 7th round. They may even force a fumble or get a tackle for loss or maybe even a sack once in a while.
Hell I won't take a play off for half the price


Apparently they aren't, because we haven't found anyone better to replace him.


We haven't replaced Crosby yet either, but it doesn't make him suck any less.


He just started his awful streak this year. How many drafts has Hawk been through since he's been picked? 6 or 7? If he as average as the "dime a dozen" guys you mention, he would've been replaced already.
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SDN40


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoPackGo wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
GoPackGo wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
GoPackGo wrote:
He is prone to that, yep, but have any of you EVER seen Hawk take a play off? Maybe he misses tackles, isn't always sound in his fundamentals, but dude NEVER misses a beat or lacks trying. Palmy always mentions those guys that get every drip of talent out of their body. Hawk is one of those types IMO.


And those guys are a dime a dozen in the 7th round. They may even force a fumble or get a tackle for loss or maybe even a sack once in a while.
Hell I won't take a play off for half the price


Apparently they aren't, because we haven't found anyone better to replace him.


We haven't replaced Crosby yet either, but it doesn't make him suck any less.


He just started his awful streak this year. How many drafts has Hawk been through since he's been picked? 6 or 7? If he as average as the "dime a dozen" guys you mention, he would've been replaced already.


Well then lets let the stats do the talking. ESPN has career stats for sacks, forced fumbles, interceptions, etc. Take a look and see what you think. Get ready to see lots of zeros. Of course TT isnt going to look to get rid of a guy he just gave a contract to. Look how long it took for Bishop to get his chance instead of Barnett. You can bet your last dollar that as soon as its financially feasible, Hawk is gone.

No one makes less plays for more money on this team, and that includes Finley. Everyone wants to talk about living up to the money they make, Hawk is the biggest offender of that concept.
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GoPackGo


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't say he wasn't overpaid, just that he wasn't below average or worthy of Hawk = 7th rounder play designation.
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cpnesdude41


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrBobGray wrote:
People are disappointed in Hawk because they still think of football as Madden, even when they're trying not too.

In his seven seasons in GB, Hawk has missed 2 games. His first 5 years he didn't miss a game, despite a badly torn groin in 2008 that greatly limited his ability to play.

In his seven seasons in GB, Hawk has played WLB, MLB, and ILB for Green Bay, as well as time in the nickle. I'm not sure if he's ever been the LB in dime. He has rarely been given the chance to pick a spot and stay in it. Additionally, in his two first seasons when he lined up at WLB (ie, the position he was drafted to play for GB) he had the following statlines:

2006: 119 tackles, 82 solo; 3.5 sacks, 6 PD, 2 INTs, 1 FF
2007: 105 tackles, 78 solo; 1 sack, 4 PD, 1 INT, 1 FF

in comparison, Chad Greenway for the Vikings had:

2006: DNP
2007: 105 tackles, 78 solo; 0 sacks, 4 PD, 2 INTs, 1 TD, 2 FF
2008: 115 tackles, 86 solo, 5.5 sacks, 5 PD, 0 INTs, 3 FF

and Lance Briggs, in his two best seasons statistically:

2006: 130 tackles, 109 solo; 1 sack, 8 PD, 2 INTs, 4 FF
2008: 110 tackles, 90 solo; 0.5 sacks, 10 PDs, 3 INTs, 1 FF

The point being here is that people give Hawk a lot of crap for not making splash plays, but when he was given the opportunity early on, he made a fair amount of them. He was third in voting for DROY that year, and honestly his statline is almost identical to the winner (DeMeco Ryans).

Since then, Hawk has been bounced around and expected to fill a multitude of different roles, and he's done it every year without missing a bit.

In 2008 he took over at MLB when Barnett went down with an injury despite having an injured groin. This was after we attempted to let Bishop play the position at MIN and he blew the game in coverage against C. Taylor.

In 2009 he bulked up to play the SILB in the 3-4, and coincidentally Nick Barnett coming back from surgery had one of his best years ever. What a coincidence.

In 2010 Desmond Bishop took over for an injured Nick Barnett, and had a monster year. Two years previous he had been terrible in the 4-3 at MLB, but suddenly following Hawk he had a Pro-Bowl year. Just like Barnett had had the year before.

In 2012, both Bishop and his back-up Smith go down. Brad Jones plays ILB for the first time at any level. The run defense is shockingly not horrible.

The point of all this being, it doesn't seem to matter who we put next to Hawk, they look good. When we put him in position to be the playmaker, instead of the guy who leads the way, he puts up stats comparable with the better players in the league. He's missed 2 games out of a possible 110, and played anywhere and everywhere we asked him. He played ST as recently as 2009, despite also being a starter, because we needed him too.

Hawk has not been a superstar, but there's a reason they signed him to that massive contract. He's the linebacker this team needs right now, but apparently not the one it deserves.


lmao
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incognito_man


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm certainly not disappointed in Hawk whatsoever.

Not every ILB is going to be Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis. If your "miss" on a top 5 pick is AJ Hawk, your team is probably pretty damn good.
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SDN40


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is directed at no one in particular, but I find it rather funny that guys who produced on the field like Clifton and Grant and Jones; everyone wanted to run out of town, but yet guys like Hawk people are willing to take a bullet for
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GoPackGo


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think people are saying "if we find a Patrick Willis in the draft, you don't replace Hawk! He plays hard!"

I can't speak for others, but what I'M saying is that he's earned his spot, works hard, and is accountable. He doesn't make splash plays that a typical #5 pick does, but as some people here noted, he could be Aaron Curry. I have no problem with an AJ Hawk starting at LB for me.
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Hurricane_Seasn


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDN40 wrote:
I remember Robert Francois posting more game changing positive plays in 6 games than Hawk has in 6 years. For years everyone defended Hawk by saying he wasn't asked to make plays. As hilarious as that was to hear it wasn't until an article surfaced where Winston Moss criticized Hawk for ..... wait for it ........ not making plays, that those silly words stopped showing up here.

Its no secret that I am not a Hawk fan. I was in the Vernon Davis camp. Hawk's ceiling had already been reached and scouts mentioned while his 40 time was fine, he was stiff as a board. He's been a 2x4 ever since. He has mastered making those tackles 7 yards down field though.



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MrBobGray


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDN40 wrote:
I remember Robert Francois posting more game changing positive plays in 6 games than Hawk has in 6 years. For years everyone defended Hawk by saying he wasn't asked to make plays. As hilarious as that was to hear it wasn't until an article surfaced where Winston Moss criticized Hawk for ..... wait for it ........ not making plays, that those silly words stopped showing up here.

Its no secret that I am not a Hawk fan. I was in the Vernon Davis camp. Hawk's ceiling had already been reached and scouts mentioned while his 40 time was fine, he was stiff as a board. He's been a 2x4 ever since. He has mastered making those tackles 7 yards down field though.


Really? He posted a 6.82 cone and a 3.96 SS. That short shuttle is one of the fastest times I've ever seen for a LB. To put it in perspective, it would have placed him 4th at this year's combine, among all positions. He would have been .06 seconds slower than Casey Heyward, who had the best time. His 6.82 would have been the fastest time by a LB at this year's combine. He also had a 40 inch vert, and I've never seen anyone say he was stiff as a board. I did find this:

Quote:
Positives: Has a thick upper body with broad shoulders, tight waist, good bubble and excellent timed speed for his position Has loose hips and above average balance, keeping his feet on the move Shows natural knee bend and has a sudden burst coming off the edge to defeat the lethargic offensive tackle Has the athletic agility, loose hips, valid speed and a strong desire to take on receivers in man coverage Plays with a quick, controlled backpedal, showing the looseness in his hips to open and play the ball


But your mind is already made up so I'll let you run with that.

Hawk has 11.5 career sacks, 8 career INTs, and is on pace to join the 20/20 club if he has a decently long career. No, he doesn't make the kind of splash plays that some other LBs do. No, he hasn't been truly elite. But then again, you were a member of the Vernon Davis club, so let's look at his big numbers:

0 1000 yard seasons
1 10+ TD season
career best 78 catches in a season
averages 12.6 YPC, 49 catches, 617 yards, 5.7 TD/season

Boy, those are some terrifying numbers. How could we possibly do without that kind of monster production?

I know you're gonna say that there are other circumstances there, that he has to rely on his QB and he hasn't had a good QB/OC in his time there? Well, Hawk knows that pain. He's on his third position in the NFL, and he's played through some nasty injuries already. He's had two LBs next to him have career years and a third LB who's never played the position look very solid; that's not a coincidence.

No, Hawk is not a superstar elite LB. But he's a pretty damn good one that does anything we ask him to, and there's a reason a great GM like TT signed him for $7 million/per.
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