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RidiculousJames
Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 1320
Location: Cheshire, England
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Our run blocking hasn't been great this year plus I personally think he has been hampered by the injuries he has had this season. He's still one of the better RBs in the NFL and should make it to 1,000 yards despite missing a game and a half, I'm glad he's a Bear.
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AZBearsFan
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 8907
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| WindyCity wrote: | Everyone on offence not named Marshall has had a crap year and I don know if we can judge them all.
That being said I would trade Forete if someone offered a 2nd or higher. |
I don't think Cutler has had a bad year at all. Look at his stats (59.7 comp %, 17 TD, 14 INT). Now add in even half of the SEVEN DROPPED TD PASSES (3 by Marshall, 2 by Jeffery, 1 by Bennett and 1 by Hester) and the whole season looks different, both for Jay and for the team.
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| GRRLacher wrote: | | I told you guys AZ was awesome...he in fact makes triple the pay I get for moderating here. |
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Nads786
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 3693
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Forte is having a bad season but who isn't on offense? This line is also horrible at run blocking consistently.
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Superman(DH23)
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 16424
Location: Abdi on the sick sig
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ChicagoAl wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | 1WngdAngel wrote: | | He's carried the ball moer than 200 times this season and the last time he scored on the ground was week 9 at Tennessee. The Bears overpaid for his services and in the NFL of today overpaying a running back is ridiculously stupid. |
We didn’t overpay for him…
Arian Foster’s contract averages…$8.7 million a year
Shady McCoy’s contract averages…$7.6 million a year
Matt Forte’s contract averages…$7.6 million a year
We got Forte at market value…scoring is one thing but two things to consider…1. His opportunities to score are often taken up by Michael Bush & 2. He is playing behind a truly terrible offensive line that has opened up the holes that other RBs have had. |
Oh, he was overpaid. Of that there is no doubt. But it was political to prevent the idiots who believe paying money is everything from going crazy, this includes the media.
Everyone knew our line was being rebuilt on the fly and almost everyone thought we would put more resources into that during the offseason. A lot of that went to Forte.
In a market like the NFL there really is not a "market" price for RBs and QBs or anyone really. There is a monoposny price wherein the buyers have near control of the market facing a near monopoly of sellers. Hence, you get situations where players who are not much, much better than others getting much, much more. Such as Forte and Bush.
The smartest GMs take the guy who is not the absolute best when the price is prohibitive. |
He got paid WELL under market value, so I'm not sure how you can say he's overpaid.
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WindyCity
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 6831
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| AZBearsFan wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | Everyone on offence not named Marshall has had a crap year and I don know if we can judge them all.
That being said I would trade Forete if someone offered a 2nd or higher. |
I don't think Cutler has had a bad year at all. Look at his stats (59.7 comp %, 17 TD, 14 INT). Now add in even half of the SEVEN DROPPED TD PASSES (3 by Marshall, 2 by Jeffery, 1 by Bennett and 1 by Hester) and the whole season looks different, both for Jay and for the team. |
By today's standards that is a miserable year for a QB.
Now I am not saying he is a bad QB he is crippled by his OL and his OC, but my guess is that he finishes in the bottom 1/3 of the league in yards, TDs and is in the top1/3 for INTs.
Good QBs are throwing for 4200 and 25 TDs with a 2-1 TD/INT ratio.
Andy Dalton has 3300 26 TDs and 14 INTs.
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ChicagoAl
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7067
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| Superman(DH23) wrote: | | ChicagoAl wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | 1WngdAngel wrote: | | He's carried the ball moer than 200 times this season and the last time he scored on the ground was week 9 at Tennessee. The Bears overpaid for his services and in the NFL of today overpaying a running back is ridiculously stupid. |
We didn’t overpay for him…
Arian Foster’s contract averages…$8.7 million a year
Shady McCoy’s contract averages…$7.6 million a year
Matt Forte’s contract averages…$7.6 million a year
We got Forte at market value…scoring is one thing but two things to consider…1. His opportunities to score are often taken up by Michael Bush & 2. He is playing behind a truly terrible offensive line that has opened up the holes that other RBs have had. |
Oh, he was overpaid. Of that there is no doubt. But it was political to prevent the idiots who believe paying money is everything from going crazy, this includes the media.
Everyone knew our line was being rebuilt on the fly and almost everyone thought we would put more resources into that during the offseason. A lot of that went to Forte.
In a market like the NFL there really is not a "market" price for RBs and QBs or anyone really. There is a monoposny price wherein the buyers have near control of the market facing a near monopoly of sellers. Hence, you get situations where players who are not much, much better than others getting much, much more. Such as Forte and Bush.
The smartest GMs take the guy who is not the absolute best when the price is prohibitive. |
He got paid WELL under market value, so I'm not sure how you can say he's overpaid. |
I explained why. Under pure competition you get a market price. NFL economics does not have the assumptions in place to achieve a market price. It is a monososny price. |
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bearsaddict
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 3543
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:28 am Post subject: |
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If Mike Tice had more of a brain we would not be having this conversation. They guy caught tons of passes under Martz, but is rarely used to do so under Tice(and has been very successful when he has been utilized this way mind you). The run blocking has been bad to say the least, and he sees loaded boxes because defenses know that they can get to Cutler before he gets to find anyone open. Tice has helped incredibly little with anything close to something resembling an innovative playcall. The fault is not with Forte, but a few other sources.
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ChicagoAl
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7067
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| bearsaddict wrote: | | If Mike Tice had more of a brain we would not be having this conversation. They guy caught tons of passes under Martz, but is rarely used to do so under Tice(and has been very successful when he has been utilized this way mind you). The run blocking has been bad to say the least, and he sees loaded boxes because defenses know that they can get to Cutler before he gets to find anyone open. Tice has helped incredibly little with anything close to something resembling an innovative playcall. The fault is not with Forte, but a few other sources. |
It is the responsibility of the head coach to determine how to attack the opponent. Tice is a subordinate and would follow directions to use Forte more if they were given. He just "coordinates" things on offense, he is not the commander-in-chief. |
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bearsaddict
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 3543
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| ChicagoAl wrote: | | bearsaddict wrote: | | If Mike Tice had more of a brain we would not be having this conversation. They guy caught tons of passes under Martz, but is rarely used to do so under Tice(and has been very successful when he has been utilized this way mind you). The run blocking has been bad to say the least, and he sees loaded boxes because defenses know that they can get to Cutler before he gets to find anyone open. Tice has helped incredibly little with anything close to something resembling an innovative playcall. The fault is not with Forte, but a few other sources. |
It is the responsibility of the head coach to determine how to attack the opponent. Tice is a subordinate and would follow directions to use Forte more if they were given. He just "coordinates" things on offense, he is not the commander-in-chief. |
That is untrue. He implements his offense and his plays. Lovie should be held responsible for letting him be this bad, and hiring someone this unimaginative, but he is running his plays.
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Here's to hoping Emery is NOTHING like Angelo. |
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AZBearsFan
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 8907
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| WindyCity wrote: | | AZBearsFan wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | Everyone on offence not named Marshall has had a crap year and I don know if we can judge them all.
That being said I would trade Forete if someone offered a 2nd or higher. |
I don't think Cutler has had a bad year at all. Look at his stats (59.7 comp %, 17 TD, 14 INT). Now add in even half of the SEVEN DROPPED TD PASSES (3 by Marshall, 2 by Jeffery, 1 by Bennett and 1 by Hester) and the whole season looks different, both for Jay and for the team. |
By today's standards that is a miserable year for a QB.
Now I am not saying he is a bad QB he is crippled by his OL and his OC, but my guess is that he finishes in the bottom 1/3 of the league in yards, TDs and is in the top1/3 for INTs.
Good QBs are throwing for 4200 and 25 TDs with a 2-1 TD/INT ratio.
Andy Dalton has 3300 26 TDs and 14 INTs. |
And without the 7 dropped sure TDs Cutler would have 24 TD and 14 INT. None of those are on him - that's the receivers not doing their job. As far as yardage goes, Jay averages about 30 yards less per game than Dalton which is solely reflective of more attempts since their yards per attempt is nearly identical (7.02 for Dalton, 6.98 for Jay).
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| GRRLacher wrote: | | I told you guys AZ was awesome...he in fact makes triple the pay I get for moderating here. |
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Badger75
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 5920
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:47 am Post subject: |
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So trade Matt Forte. Maybe a WR in return? Just not within the division.
Once Spring Cleaning starts is anyone safe?
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ChicagoAl
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7067
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| bearsaddict wrote: | | ChicagoAl wrote: | | bearsaddict wrote: | | If Mike Tice had more of a brain we would not be having this conversation. They guy caught tons of passes under Martz, but is rarely used to do so under Tice(and has been very successful when he has been utilized this way mind you). The run blocking has been bad to say the least, and he sees loaded boxes because defenses know that they can get to Cutler before he gets to find anyone open. Tice has helped incredibly little with anything close to something resembling an innovative playcall. The fault is not with Forte, but a few other sources. |
It is the responsibility of the head coach to determine how to attack the opponent. Tice is a subordinate and would follow directions to use Forte more if they were given. He just "coordinates" things on offense, he is not the commander-in-chief. |
That is untrue. He implements his offense and his plays. Lovie should be held responsible for letting him be this bad, and hiring someone this unimaginative, but he is running his plays. |
Any coach who knows anything about offense would make sure certain things are done when they are called for. He won't call all the plays but when a sneak is called for he can make sure that it is done. Tice works for Lovie and is subject to his demands. It isn't even imagination as much as doing what the situation demands. This is huge failure in a HC and they lose their jobs because of it. |
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ChicagoAl
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7067
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| AZBearsFan wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | | AZBearsFan wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | Everyone on offence not named Marshall has had a crap year and I don know if we can judge them all.
That being said I would trade Forete if someone offered a 2nd or higher. |
I don't think Cutler has had a bad year at all. Look at his stats (59.7 comp %, 17 TD, 14 INT). Now add in even half of the SEVEN DROPPED TD PASSES (3 by Marshall, 2 by Jeffery, 1 by Bennett and 1 by Hester) and the whole season looks different, both for Jay and for the team. |
By today's standards that is a miserable year for a QB.
Now I am not saying he is a bad QB he is crippled by his OL and his OC, but my guess is that he finishes in the bottom 1/3 of the league in yards, TDs and is in the top1/3 for INTs.
Good QBs are throwing for 4200 and 25 TDs with a 2-1 TD/INT ratio.
Andy Dalton has 3300 26 TDs and 14 INTs. |
And without the 7 dropped sure TDs Cutler would have 24 TD and 14 INT. None of those are on him - that's the receivers not doing their job. As far as yardage goes, Jay averages about 30 yards less per game than Dalton which is solely reflective of more attempts since their yards per attempt is nearly identical (7.02 for Dalton, 6.98 for Jay). |
Come on, AZ, you know that could be said about EVERY QB, they all have drops. All I have ever asked of Jay is that he play as well as Rex in 06 given the terribly loaded situation he came into so I am not too critical. He was brought into a place there was almost certainty that he would disappoint a lot of people. The last two years he has done well. But he is and will always be barely top ten, if that. |
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DaMike
Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Badger75 wrote: | So trade Matt Forte. Maybe a WR in return? Just not within the division.
Once Spring Cleaning starts is anyone safe? |
Nobody wants a RB with a big fresh contract. We couldn't get decent value for him. |
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ChicagoAl
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7067
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Badger75 wrote: | So trade Matt Forte. Maybe a WR in return? Just not within the division.
Once Spring Cleaning starts is anyone safe? |
No, no one is. Gould probably is the safest. For the right price Jay, Matt, Briggs anyone is subject to trade. Once a new coach is in place we will have a better idea of what he wants until then speculation about the draft or trades is pointless (so it should be very popular around here.) |
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