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BigD1123


Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 327
Location: South carolina
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Ryan Mallett from New England could get them cheap.

This I like him coming out of college and thought the Pats stole him in round 3 (I think it was) I just hate trading with the Pats seems like we always get the short end of the stick.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6176
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersAreOne wrote:
r8der14 wrote:
Sure wish the Raiders could find someone like Russell Wilson or Kaepernick or even Cousins in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round


This year they will draft a QB later in the draft imo.


I sure hope they don't. Young QBs are a distraction right now. I don't want to endure another season of A.B.P. (anybody but Palmer) until the coach staff and OL are secure.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5377
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
macklemore wrote:
1. Russell Wilson is legit and would have been a top 5 pick if he was 6'2.

2. 6 mil a year is not a big deal for a QB, Thats half of what Palmer is making.


1. The point is if you're a high priced free agent you're given every opportunity to start. Seattle brought Flynn in to be their starting quarterback and draft Russell Wilson as a developmental guy. The fact that he got beaten out even with the upper edge going into training camp is not a good sign.

2. So half the salary for half the player?


First of all, Wilson was not developmental. The word "developmental" suggests there are things that need major work. His arm, poise, intelligence, accuracy, and ability to read a defense were as NFL-ready as any other 1st round QB prospect. The only knock against him was his height, and seeing as you cant improve a player's height, I'm not sure how he qualifies as a developmental QB.

I'm not advocating for Flynn, I think he is overrated, I'm just letting you know that Russell Wilson was not a developmental QB. And even if he was, why would it matter? You are acting like Wilson is starting over Peyton Manning. One unproven QB got outplayed by another unproven QB, period.
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La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
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dawsonleery


Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 739
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
r8der14 wrote:
Sure wish the Raiders could find someone like Russell Wilson or Kaepernick or even Cousins in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round


This year they will draft a QB later in the draft imo.


I sure hope they don't. Young QBs are a distraction right now. I don't want to endure another season of A.B.P. (anybody but Palmer) until the coach staff and OL are secure.


Agreed. The Raiders on offense are a mess, I don't like the coaching staff at all, it would be horrible to draft a young QB or trade for one...With Knapp running the show, if he's out, its a different story.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
First of all, Wilson was not developmental. The word "developmental" suggests there are things that need major work. His arm, poise, intelligence, accuracy, and ability to read a defense were as NFL-ready as any other 1st round QB prospect. The only knock against him was his height, and seeing as you cant improve a player's height, I'm not sure how he qualifies as a developmental QB.

I'm not advocating for Flynn, I think he is overrated, I'm just letting you know that Russell Wilson was not a developmental QB. And even if he was, why would it matter? You are acting like Wilson is starting over Peyton Manning. One unproven QB got outplayed by another unproven QB, period.


That's exactly my point, Matt Flynn is an overrated and unproven quarterback.

A developmental player is someone you bring in to develop in hopes that they can one day be a contributor for your franchise. Do you really think Seattle waited until the third round to take Russell Wilson because they thought he could be their franchise quarterback? If the Seahawks thought Wilson could be an elite quarterback from the get-go they would have taken him in the first round but they didn't. Carroll and the Seahawks management have already shown that if they like a player they'll take him earlier than expected regardless of value because he's there guy.

I'm not hating on Russell Wilson but if you honestly think the Seahawks drafted him and expected him to be their franchise quarterback from the get-go you're delusional.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3268
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
r8der14 wrote:
Sure wish the Raiders could find someone like Russell Wilson or Kaepernick or even Cousins in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round


This year they will draft a QB later in the draft imo.


I sure hope they don't. Young QBs are a distraction right now. I don't want to endure another season of A.B.P. (anybody but Palmer) until the coach staff and OL are secure.


Yeah but I get the feeling that unless Palmer Plays like a top 5 QB, people aren't going to want him around. This teams a mess I really can wait for the season to be over so we can sort this out.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5377
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
First of all, Wilson was not developmental. The word "developmental" suggests there are things that need major work. His arm, poise, intelligence, accuracy, and ability to read a defense were as NFL-ready as any other 1st round QB prospect. The only knock against him was his height, and seeing as you cant improve a player's height, I'm not sure how he qualifies as a developmental QB.

I'm not advocating for Flynn, I think he is overrated, I'm just letting you know that Russell Wilson was not a developmental QB. And even if he was, why would it matter? You are acting like Wilson is starting over Peyton Manning. One unproven QB got outplayed by another unproven QB, period.


That's exactly my point, Matt Flynn is an overrated and unproven quarterback.

A developmental player is someone you bring in to develop in hopes that they can one day be a contributor for your franchise. Do you really think Seattle waited until the third round to take Russell Wilson because they thought he could be their franchise quarterback? If the Seahawks thought Wilson could be an elite quarterback from the get-go they would have taken him in the first round but they didn't. Carroll and the Seahawks management have already shown that if they like a player they'll take him earlier than expected regardless of value because he's there guy.

I'm not hating on Russell Wilson but if you honestly think the Seahawks drafted him and expected him to be their franchise quarterback from the get-go you're delusional.



No they wouldnt have used a first on him because there were serious questions about his height. He had the skill set of a 1st round QB, but his height scared everyone away. If you take him in the first and his height is too much to overcome, you blew it. But take him in the 3rd and the risk decreases a lot. I'm not delusional, dude was the real deal. He just needed to be taller, which you cant develop. Wilson carried a risk, since he was considered too short, but he already had all the tools. You are confusing risk with project.

You are not getting the point. When Week 1 rolls around, draft status goes out the window. The only thing you care about when the season begins is playing the best player, because that would theoretically give you the best chance to win, no? Gotta remember who he was going against. It was Matt Flynn, not Peyton Manning or even a semi-established QB. Whether Wilson was brought in as a project or the QBOF, he outplayed Flynn all preseason and looked better all camp. Even if Wilson were an UDFA, supposed to need a lot of work, but then showed up ready to roll, what does it matter what he was "supposed to be"?
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La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12312
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Our luck drafting QB's was horrible under Al Davis


Drafting in general was horrible. He was an awful evaluator of talent.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 9029
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Our luck drafting QB's was horrible under Al Davis


Drafting in general was horrible. He was an awful evaluator of talent.


I think he was an awful evaluator of character/drive. Almost all those guys had talent.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12312
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Our luck drafting QB's was horrible under Al Davis


Drafting in general was horrible. He was an awful evaluator of talent.


I think he was an awful evaluator of character/drive. Almost all those guys had talent.


That could be a more accurate statement. You're right.
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BigD1123


Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 327
Location: South carolina
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Our luck drafting QB's was horrible under Al Davis


Drafting in general was horrible. He was an awful evaluator of talent.


I think he was an awful evaluator of character/drive. Almost all those guys had talent.


This. Even Jabustle was supposed to he the hottest thing since Elway when he was drafted. Only real bad one I think was DHB. Even Fabian and Routte had talent coming out.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5774
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Our luck drafting QB's was horrible under Al Davis


Drafting in general was horrible. He was an awful evaluator of talent.


He was once a great evaluator of talent. A long time ago though, when his evaluation skills were valid in the NFL as it was played back then. It's the reason why no GM holds a job for 50 years. Because the game changes, the same tricks don't work any more because every other team in the league catches on, and then the game changes again due to that. He was ahead of the curve for 30 years, but never progressed beyond that after the mid 80's. How could he, there's only so much distance one career can span until an existing philosophy limits someone from going further.

He was not horrible in the later rounds even up until recent, but the problem with that is that while he found solid contributors not one of them became a true impact player. It's the early rounds he was terrible at, but only because all he did was take risks on potential and dreams of "domination". Bigger, faster stronger worked - the physical advantage- when there was bigger, faster stronger to be had. Now that every team is bigger, faster, stronger, what wins? Not that.. And in UDFAs, he found some gems but then went ahead and cut them in favor of scholarships.

He still had an eye for talent, but made all he wrong choices for the wrong reasons, and did all the wrong things with the existing personnel.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3721
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Our luck drafting QB's was horrible under Al Davis


Drafting in general was horrible. He was an awful evaluator of talent.


That's because up until 10 years ago the Raiders never had a QB coach. Al Davis didn't believe was necessary.
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
First of all, Wilson was not developmental. The word "developmental" suggests there are things that need major work. His arm, poise, intelligence, accuracy, and ability to read a defense were as NFL-ready as any other 1st round QB prospect. The only knock against him was his height, and seeing as you cant improve a player's height, I'm not sure how he qualifies as a developmental QB.

I'm not advocating for Flynn, I think he is overrated, I'm just letting you know that Russell Wilson was not a developmental QB. And even if he was, why would it matter? You are acting like Wilson is starting over Peyton Manning. One unproven QB got outplayed by another unproven QB, period.


That's exactly my point, Matt Flynn is an overrated and unproven quarterback.

A developmental player is someone you bring in to develop in hopes that they can one day be a contributor for your franchise. Do you really think Seattle waited until the third round to take Russell Wilson because they thought he could be their franchise quarterback? If the Seahawks thought Wilson could be an elite quarterback from the get-go they would have taken him in the first round but they didn't. Carroll and the Seahawks management have already shown that if they like a player they'll take him earlier than expected regardless of value because he's there guy.

I'm not hating on Russell Wilson but if you honestly think the Seahawks drafted him and expected him to be their franchise quarterback from the get-go you're delusional.


Why the hell does it matter where this kid was drafted? he is better then Matt Flynn end of story.

Matt Flynn isn't going to be the next Aaron Rodgers but I think he could be the next Matt Hasselbeck (average qb who can put up good stats with a good cast). I wouldn't mind having him as a stop gap QB for the next few years while we build the team and then draft a young QB.
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Professor Oak


Joined: 12 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see Palmer going anywhere right now & bringing in someone else via trade would be a lateral move.

I'm never a fan of trading for a QB who played well in such a small sample size on a good team. We've seen how teams like NE, GB, and PHI have taken advantage of other teams by trading away Cassell, Flynn, and Kolb to desperate teams. I'd much rather not go that road.
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