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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. X wrote:
I would like to say though, that a quarterback can make an offensive line seem better or worse than it is.

I'm not saying that Ravens don't have a bad offensive line but he certainly doesn't help the situation with his poor pocket awareness and ability to make throws out of the pocket.

For example:

In 2005 with Kyle Boller as the team's starting quarterback the Ravens offensive line consisted of Jonathan Odgen (16 starts), Mike Flynn (16), Edwin Mulitalo (15), Orlando Brown (9), Keydrick Vincent (9), Tony Pashos (7), Brian Rimpf (7) and Jason Brown (1). That group allowed 42 sacks

In 2006 with Steve McNail as the team's starting quarterback the Ravens offensive line consisted of Mike Flynn (16), Tony Pashos (16), Jonathan Odgen (14), Jason Brown (12), Keydrick Vincent (12), Edwin Mulitalo (4) and Adam Terry (2). That group of almost the same players they allowed only 17 sacks, the second fewest in the NFL.

The difference was McNair's ability to tell where the rush was coming from, step up into the pocket or scramble out of the way and make plays when things were breaking down to avoid the sack.


Oh yeah definitely. We all know Flacco's pocket presence is pretty bad, and his footwork leaves a lot to be desired which leads to a lot of those "Oh Joe..." moments. I've said it before but Flacco needs to have a consistently clean pocket for him to consistently succeed. It's just the type of QB he is, kind of like Rivers and Eli Manning. The athletes at that position that we see coming into the league make those weaknesses even more glaring. I'm not just talking about the uber QB athletes like Newton, RGIII, Wilson, Kaepernick, etc. here either.

I will say that it's not all about sacks though. Even if Flacco started moving around and taking less sacks that wouldn't mean the OL is any better. You never want to see your QB always on the run. The quick pressures that Baltimore's OL gives up all the time are the worst thing about the unit in my opinion.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Oh yeah definitely. We all know Flacco's pocket presence is pretty bad, and his footwork leaves a lot to be desired which leads to a lot of those "Oh Joe..." moments. I've said it before but Flacco needs to have a consistently clean pocket for him to consistently succeed. It's just the type of QB he is, kind of like Rivers and Eli Manning. The athletes at that position that we see coming into the league make those weaknesses even more glaring. I'm not just talking about the uber QB athletes like Newton, RGIII, Wilson, Kaepernick, etc. here either.

I will say that it's not all about sacks though. Even if Flacco started moving around and taking less sacks that wouldn't mean the OL is any better. You never want to see your QB always on the run. The quick pressures that Baltimore's OL gives up all the time are the worst thing about the unit in my opinion.


What we need is a coordinator who will find ways to scheme ourselves into ways to slow down a pass rush, whether it's play action, TE's chipping, RB's chipping, we need SOMETHING because right now does anyone here EVER see anyone chip pass rushers when we play them?
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey now Leach does that sometimes. Laughing

Man whenever I see a TE stay in to block or chip for a second then proceed to run a route (for the life of me I can't remember what that's called at the moment. Not enough Madden lately) and be WIDE open against the defense two thing go through my head. The first is "************ WHY DOES THAT WORK EVERY TIME?!?!?!?!" and the second is "Damn the offense should try that."
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Hey now Leach does that sometimes. Laughing

Man whenever I see a TE stay in to block or chip for a second then proceed to run a route (for the life of me I can't remember what that's called at the moment. Not enough Madden lately) and be WIDE open against the defense two thing go through my head. The first is "************ WHY DOES THAT WORK EVERY TIME?!?!?!?!" and the second is "Damn the offense should try that."


Nah, what I see Leach do is actually block, not chip.

And it's called a delay route in Madden (or "Block and Release"), but either way the best example I have EVER seen of slowing down a pass rush was last year when we played San Diego. The entire game, all they did was have their TE's and RB's chip Suggs and JJ when they went out on routes. It wasn't even a delay route, they would chip and keep running. I have never once seen our TE's do that. Not. A Single. Time.
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draftguru1234


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
draftguru1234 wrote:
The talent level on defense is definitely lacking with no Suggs, Webb, and washed up greats in Lewis and Reed. Not to mention Ozzie has failed to address the pass-rush for a while now albeit not for a lack trying.

But the guy thats dragged down this D more than anyone is Ngata. And it really pains me to say this, because just as recently as 2010 I considered him the best defensive player in the NFL. And with the way he started out last year, I thought we were in for something special. But as soon as he got paid, I haven't seen that player again. I know hes been banged up, but honestly if an injury can hinder you this much, you shouldn't be playing.

People mention guys like Suggs, Lewis, and Reed, but this defense goes as Ngata goes. When he is dominating, everyone on the defense looks better.


I disagree. The person that is dragging this defense down the most is Ed Reed. I haven't seen Ngata blow a coverage and give up a touchdown while making Cary Willliams look bad. I haven't seen Ngata get hurdled 5 times in one season. I haven't seen Ngata continuously arm tackle and drag defenders for an extra 5 to like 20 yards a play.

Ed Reed is a complete shell of a football player out there right now. It's just sad to watch.

I could see that argument, but the pass defense struggling is to be expected with stud CB Webb out. Reed needs to retire asap. It sucks to see an all-time great embarrassing himself.

But the d-line shouldn't get pushed around on a consistent basis with a player like Ngata who is supposed to be entering his prime.

Reed is playing worse than Ngata, but a d-lineman struggling is much more detrimental to a defense. Look at this way, even if you have a very good secondary, if the d-line can't penetrate, that secondary will look much worse than it actually is. But at the same time you could make an average secondary look good with a disruptive d-line.


Last edited by draftguru1234 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

STrid wrote:
Lots of good stuff


I didn't want to quote the entire thing, but I agree with the majority of it. That might be why I don't feel entirely surprised or upset at the way the team has played at times this season. The Ravens have definitely looked better on paper than on the field.

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
I think it's perfectly fair to question some of Ozzie's recent drafts. They have been 'solid,' but since '09 we've had basically two home run hits in Webb and Torrey Smith and a ground rule double with Dennis Pitta, but otherwise have not been up to snuff. We haven't even been able to rely on our 1st round picks, which in previous years had basically always turned into Pro Bowlers. We traded out of the 1st round twice in 4 years since and the two times we stuck around, we picked two thoroughly underwhelming players in Michael Oher and Jimmy Smith, who, even if you don't view them as busts, you certainly can't view as above average at this point.

The margin for error in the draft has tightened considerably: the rest of the league has caught up to us in terms of drafting and it shows. Even DeCosta admitted last year that the Ravens were caught off guard at how many of their targets came off the board before they expected them to in last year's draft. It's really not enough to draft a meaningful impact player once every 2 years in the draft anymore, and otherwise accumulate solid role players like Upshaw, Cody, or Zbikowski and not expect this team to fall behind the other contenders in this league. I think we do need to expect more from this front office, because between Ozzie and DeCosta they carry a huge reputation without great returns in recent years, and with a team that is in need of a talent infusion, we need better drafts. This team seems to lack athleticism and explosion on the defensive side of the ball and a lot of that comes back to the kinds of players we're recruting to play on this defense. There's been this assumption that we only ever needed to replace role players with role players and at some point that has caused a signficant decline in the potential of the defense. It just seems at times that we're working from a model that isn't necessarily in line with what works in the NFL right now.

Now, I don't think I agree with a lot of Mr. X's other points and it's perfectly clear that there is a clearer agenda of being Mr. Truth Teller than there is a desire to have a fair and balanced conversation (where any player who is not a star, even if it's Kruger or Art Jones, is a bust is a place where we've crossed over into lacking proper perspective). But I think there is something undeniable about the fact that our drafts have flat out not been good enough over the past 4 years. They haven't been bad, per say, but they certainly haven't been great.


I also agree with a lot of this but mostly the last paragraph. The front office hasn't lived up to their reputation in the draft lately but I'm not disappointed in them either. It's just the excessive nitpicking that really gets on my nerves, like labeling 7th round draft picks as busts. I suppose if you get right down to the definition of the word it fits but like I said earlier EVERY GM would rank poorly in that regards so it's not something I would hold against Newsome.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

draftguru1234 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
draftguru1234 wrote:
The talent level on defense is definitely lacking with no Suggs, Webb, and washed up greats in Lewis and Reed. Not to mention Ozzie has failed to address the pass-rush for a while now albeit not for a lack trying.

But the guy thats dragged down this D more than anyone is Ngata. And it really pains me to say this, because just as recently as 2010 I considered him the best defensive player in the NFL. And with the way he started out last year, I thought we were in for something special. But as soon as he got paid, I haven't seen that player again. I know hes been banged up, but honestly if an injury can hinder you this much, you shouldn't be playing.

People mention guys like Suggs, Lewis, and Reed, but this defense goes as Ngata goes. When he is dominating, everyone on the defense looks better.


I disagree. The person that is dragging this defense down the most is Ed Reed. I haven't seen Ngata blow a coverage and give up a touchdown while making Cary Willliams look bad. I haven't seen Ngata get hurdled 5 times in one season. I haven't seen Ngata continuously arm tackle and drag defenders for an extra 5 to like 20 yards a play.

Ed Reed is a complete shell of a football player out there right now. It's just sad to watch.

I could see that argument, but the pass defense struggling is to be expected with stud CB Webb out. Reed needs to retire asap. It sucks to see an all-time great embarrassing himself.

But the d-line shouldn't get pushed around on a consistent basis with a player like Ngata who is supposed to be entering his prime.

Reed is playing worse than Ngata, but a d-lineman struggling is much more detrimental to a defense. Look at this way, even if you have a very good secondary, if the d-line can't penetrate, that secondary will look much worse than it actually is. But at the same time you could make an average secondary look good with a disruptive d-line.


Ngata hasn't been hot garbage pretty much all year though - Ed has.

Ngata has been playing through injuries, on a team that HAS no defensive line, so yeah he's going to be getting pushed around because the offensive line only has to double or triple him and single the other 2 guys and they win. Ngata can't do everything by himself. He's not the player he was 2 years ago, but he's not nearly as bad as Ed has been.

Ed Reed this year has to be responsible for at least 5-6 touchdowns, 3 just off the top of my head (DeMarco Murray rushing TD where Ed decided not to tackle. DHB TD reception, and then the Decker TD reception) because he either blows the coverage by guessing and leaving our already weak secondary out to dry, or because he simply can't (or won't) tackle anymore.

In my opinion, there's a huge difference between sucking (Ed Reed) and straight up not standing a chance to succeed because those around you suck (Ngata).
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Mr. X wrote:
I would like to say though, that a quarterback can make an offensive line seem better or worse than it is.

I'm not saying that Ravens don't have a bad offensive line but he certainly doesn't help the situation with his poor pocket awareness and ability to make throws out of the pocket.

For example:

In 2005 with Kyle Boller as the team's starting quarterback the Ravens offensive line consisted of Jonathan Odgen (16 starts), Mike Flynn (16), Edwin Mulitalo (15), Orlando Brown (9), Keydrick Vincent (9), Tony Pashos (7), Brian Rimpf (7) and Jason Brown (1). That group allowed 42 sacks

In 2006 with Steve McNail as the team's starting quarterback the Ravens offensive line consisted of Mike Flynn (16), Tony Pashos (16), Jonathan Odgen (14), Jason Brown (12), Keydrick Vincent (12), Edwin Mulitalo (4) and Adam Terry (2). That group of almost the same players they allowed only 17 sacks, the second fewest in the NFL.

The difference was McNair's ability to tell where the rush was coming from, step up into the pocket or scramble out of the way and make plays when things were breaking down to avoid the sack.


Oh yeah definitely. We all know Flacco's pocket presence is pretty bad, and his footwork leaves a lot to be desired which leads to a lot of those "Oh Joe..." moments. I've said it before but Flacco needs to have a consistently clean pocket for him to consistently succeed. It's just the type of QB he is, kind of like Rivers and Eli Manning. The athletes at that position that we see coming into the league make those weaknesses even more glaring. I'm not just talking about the uber QB athletes like Newton, RGIII, Wilson, Kaepernick, etc. here either.

I will say that it's not all about sacks though. Even if Flacco started moving around and taking less sacks that wouldn't mean the OL is any better. You never want to see your QB always on the run. The quick pressures that Baltimore's OL gives up all the time are the worst thing about the unit in my opinion.


And it's compounded by a system in which we go for long-developing routes as well. Scheme plays a big part -- its why Brady is sacked very seldomly.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
Mr. X wrote:
I would like to say though, that a quarterback can make an offensive line seem better or worse than it is.

I'm not saying that Ravens don't have a bad offensive line but he certainly doesn't help the situation with his poor pocket awareness and ability to make throws out of the pocket.

For example:

In 2005 with Kyle Boller as the team's starting quarterback the Ravens offensive line consisted of Jonathan Odgen (16 starts), Mike Flynn (16), Edwin Mulitalo (15), Orlando Brown (9), Keydrick Vincent (9), Tony Pashos (7), Brian Rimpf (7) and Jason Brown (1). That group allowed 42 sacks

In 2006 with Steve McNail as the team's starting quarterback the Ravens offensive line consisted of Mike Flynn (16), Tony Pashos (16), Jonathan Odgen (14), Jason Brown (12), Keydrick Vincent (12), Edwin Mulitalo (4) and Adam Terry (2). That group of almost the same players they allowed only 17 sacks, the second fewest in the NFL.

The difference was McNair's ability to tell where the rush was coming from, step up into the pocket or scramble out of the way and make plays when things were breaking down to avoid the sack.


Oh yeah definitely. We all know Flacco's pocket presence is pretty bad, and his footwork leaves a lot to be desired which leads to a lot of those "Oh Joe..." moments. I've said it before but Flacco needs to have a consistently clean pocket for him to consistently succeed. It's just the type of QB he is, kind of like Rivers and Eli Manning. The athletes at that position that we see coming into the league make those weaknesses even more glaring. I'm not just talking about the uber QB athletes like Newton, RGIII, Wilson, Kaepernick, etc. here either.

I will say that it's not all about sacks though. Even if Flacco started moving around and taking less sacks that wouldn't mean the OL is any better. You never want to see your QB always on the run. The quick pressures that Baltimore's OL gives up all the time are the worst thing about the unit in my opinion.


And it's compounded by a system in which we go for long-developing routes as well. Scheme plays a big part -- its why Brady is sacked very seldomly.


And i should've added this to my list as well. A quick-passing offense slows a down a pass rush as much as anything, or at least forces them to think about jumping and swatting the ball rather than pinning their ears back and hunting the QB.

Either way, our scheme is crap and I can't wait until we unwrap a new christmas present next year in the form of a new OC with a new, modern day scheme!
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
And it's compounded by a system in which we go for long-developing routes as well. Scheme plays a big part -- its why Brady is sacked very seldomly.


I know that, but I thought I've harped enough about the scheme on both sides of the ball already this season that I would take a break from it for a while. Cool
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StRawz11


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I will say that ever since I started REALLY following the Ravens, in 2008 when they drafted Michael Oher, I never really understood the hype around Ozzie's "genius" status when it comes to drafts, because the only drafts I've seen have been from 2009-recent and yeah, those drafts have been very underwhelming to say the least.


Then you've really missed some awesome drafts. Passing on Lawrence Phillips to make JO the first pick of the Ravens franchise. Taking an undersized LB out of Miami at #26 who went on to become the GOAT. Finding a rotational receiver and dynamic, pro-bowl return man in the 5th (Jermaine Lewis). Signing an UDFA RB out of Texas (P. Holmes). And that was just 1996.

1997 - Peter Boulware and Jamie Sharper were awesome back to back picks. Everyone should know about Boulware, but I think Sharper gets underrated. He was considered one of the best LB's in the league when the Texans were able to grab him in the expansion draft. IIRC we left him unprotected due to salary cap hell. Kim Herring, Jeff Mitchell, Cornell Brown all ended up being contributors to the SB team.

1998 - Not stellar, but Duane Starks was very good in Bmore. Got rid of him for salary cap reasons. Patrick Johnson only other guy in this draft I really remember.

1999 - Only 4 picks in this draft but we got Chris McAlister, Edwin Mulitalo (4th) and Stokely (4th). Great draft IMO.

2000 - Ozzies first bust with Travis Taylor, but he also picked Jamal Lewis and Adalius Thomas in this draft.

2001 - Todd Heap, Gary Baxter, Casey Rabach, Ed Hartwell. Picks 1 - 4 after winning the SB. Amazing draft.

Could go on, but I'm at work. Prior to the last few years, Ozzie had an insanely high hit rate with first round picks. Also, beyond drafting his ability to lock up our key players long-term is among the league's best. His mantra of right player right price has served the organization incredibly well.


Ozzie wasn't even GM till 2002 so does he really deserve all that credit? He was still with the Ravens in 1996 so he deserves some credit.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was de-facto GM from the get-go. The 2002 promotion was more ceremonial than anything else.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
He was de-facto GM from the get-go. The 2002 promotion was more ceremonial than anything else.


This. Not trying to be rude, but any questioning of Ozzie receiving credit for those picks is poorly informed regarding the situation. He was making the picks.
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STrid


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
STrid wrote:
My Post


Good post overall.

Couple of points though:

I think the team as a whole still has a similar number of "stars", however they are more evenly split than they were in the past. In the past, we had the vast majority on the defensive side and hardly any on offense. Now, in addition to the 5 on defense you mentioned, we have Rice/Leach/Yanda as guys that are top 5 at their positions, and an emerging star in Torrey.

The problem on defense, in my opinion, is that we've been focused on trying to build up the offense over the past few years with the higher draft picks -- unfortunately, one of our 'star' picks in Oher isn't panning out. Additionally, the year we did spend some picks on defensive guys early we haven't seen much return -- Kindle with his situation and Cody has been simply average (I still dont like how Kemo starts over him, personally). Not to mention just last season we were a hell of a defense -- this season, we've just experienced such a turnaround in starters and a new system which is a much more passive one as well. Obviously we lost Redding and JJ who were key veterans who played their roles well, and we started the season without our DPOY. We sucked. Once we got closer to getting Suggs back, two of our other "stars" went down for the year in Ray and Webb. Ed has been banged up and has been a liability, Ngata was banged up a good bit for a while, as was Jimmy, etc. I do agree that we need to infuse some more youthful talent on the defense this off-season, but I don't like to look at just this year and say "Our defense isn't very talented" -- I think we are still a very talented group overall, we just don't have the number of stars we're used to.

Offensively, I agree with your assessement -- our OL is putrid. Our tackles aren't very good (which I took give KO a bit of a pass, but I still think he's better suited at guard), Birk is still getting pushed around (I'm hoping Gradkowski can take over and play well, but I think it's somewhat telling that he wasn't even considered for the LG job), LG has been a revolving door with Harewood, Williams and now Reid, etc. We definitely need some stability there (which I think we could very well get with just a LT pickup -- move Oher back to RT, KO to LG and then we only have center to worry about with Gradkowski). But overall, I think our offense has a good amount of talent we just need a more consistent OL and play calling that allows our WRs to get separation via scheme since they struggle with getting it via their skills.


The point about the stars being more widely spread is what I was trying to get at earlier. It's not that we don't still have great players but rather that these are in positions that aren't premium positions anymore. Rice is a great player, while perhaps a bit overrated, but in todays game you don't need a stud RB to perform. Similarly with Leach. Yanda of course is a guy I wouldn't trade for anything and to me is possibly the best player on offence when you factor in the position he plays. I love at least not having to worry about the RG all the time.

However, as I mentioned above, the same is true on the defensive side of the ball, especially with Webb out. We do have some great talent, but overall they are not in positions where you would want them the most. We lack that killer pass rush threat that, even though Kruger is starting to come along and so is McPhee. I think we could possibly make up for a lot of this with a different, more aggressive scheme and possibly a more permanent switch to the 4-3, but as of right now we just don't have the key players like we might need.

I don't know if this is just a trend I'm the only one to see or something, but it seems to me that there is annually a way higher number of 4-3 DE's that get positive grades on PFF than 3-4 OLBs. Similarly, aside from J.J Watt and Justin Smith blowing up the competition, the DT category tend to have a higher amount of players rated positively than ENDs. Just looking at the best defenses on Football Outsiders the trend seems to be that 4-3 defenses do better than 3-4 ones. Perhaps these defenses are better suited to the modern game where you allow your front four to be tailored to go after the QB and have that extra joker passrusher from the OLB spot. In the 3-4 the ends tend to have to play too much 2-gap and contain which reflects on the type of player you get for that position, just like you rely on having a big run stopper in at NT who does next to nothing against the pass while being much harder to replace. To me the traditional 3-4 defense is in some ways starting to become antiquated. You rely way too much on a few DPOY/All-PROs to be great because you ask so much of your players all the time. The same can be said about the idea that you need a stud RE to play 4-3 because that is just as antiquated. Taking a look at what Seattle does is very inspirational to me. They rely on a host of players to each do a specific set of tasks that they are well suited to do. That, to me, is what a modern defense is.

A lot of this lack of talent obviously goes back to Ozzie and the way he drafts. What Ozzie has done well is drafting relatively safe and not having as many total failures as possibly some other teams. What he seems reluctant to do though is take a gamble on talent that might need a bit of work in some areas but have huge strengths in other. But as I mentioned above we're also set in a position where we have to replace some positions that are just hard to get good players for late in the first round. Trying to draft that pass-rushing OLB who can also play the run in the bottom of the 1st or 2nd is hard, just like it's hard to try and get the 3-4 END who can do that down there. Perhaps a more sensible way forward was to accept that we annually draft in the bottom of each round and more tailor our offence and defence to the type of players that are available at that point. No more trying to set up a system where you require stud ENDs to be great or premier OLBs, but rather a system with a few great players, like Ngata and Suggs and the rest of them players like Kruger who are put in positions on defense where they have to do what they do well. Lets stop pretending that Kruger is a complete OLB or he well ever be and lets start focusing on, like we have done pretty well lately, on getting him in situations that match his skill set. I think a lot of that has to do with the scheme, but it also requires Ozzie to find these one or two players each year that can be great in a role while perhaps not great on every snap.

A lot of the above goes for the offence as well. The idea of getting a stud OL is antiquated. What you need to do is get a set of players that all do the same things well and then tailor to their strengths. Lets get a bunch of guys that are stud run blockers, as those are not a premium anymore, and then build the offence around running the ball and a short passing game. Similarly lets stop trying to find receivers who does everything well and get some guys who can excel in what we ask them to do, because for every Torrey you draft you're going to draft a whole bunch of Travis Taylors when you try to get a guy later in the draft to do it all.

What I'm trying to get at is that as a drafter you have to stay ahead of the curve and take advantage on what is at a premium right now. When every team wants to run the 3-4 you take advantage of that and run a 4-3 and take advantage of the fact that stud 4-3 OLBs will come much cheaper. Similarly when everyone wants to draft tall fast WRs you take advantage and draft smaller, shiftier types, because in the end teams like Baltimore will often end up getting maybe the 4th or 5th best option when they try to draft what everyone else draft.
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santiagomn8


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with pretty much everyone is saying but lets lay off ngata...he can't do everything himself he got awhile was the only threat on the defense after Webb went down what can he do wit no help? But yea he hasn't been up to his former self but hopefully that changes with drafting some help...this draft I believe we should draft majority defense...we need d line and line backers that can rush the passer on offense an Lt but that's kinda hard to find where we usually draft. All I hope for is we can turn this around and maybe win a couple games and go out on a good note and next year wit a new OC some new pieces we can gel it all together and really show the world was PLAY LIKE A RAVEN is all about
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