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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
I'd rather efficiency than the crap we're getting this year, and especially so if we're going to be paying $12-15m/yr for the privilege

*shrugs*


Our offense is in a slump. That's it. Alex Smith would be doing no better, and there's not even the chance he somehow has it click like Flacco.

We've seen Alex Smith's ceiling and it's an efficient game manager. With Alex, we'd be no better than 6-10 right now IMO.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

santiagomn8 wrote:
Like i said before im not saying get rid of Flacco rite now and just get the next guy and hope for the best if we sign flacco to something very resonable and for 3 to 4 years thats fine but we should always have our eye towards the draft for the next great prospect or someone ozzie might fall in love with cause i think flacco is a part time solution not the long term solution.


Not saying i would have done this but it really makes you think. What you have been willing to get peyton manning last year when he was a free agent and we could hae trade flacco for at least a first round pick if not more cause he has some good value especially to a qb hungry team imagine the possibiites of going down that road. again just a thought lol


We'd be better off at our QB situation but worse off overall as a team due to the cap ramifications of Peyton's deal. We wouldn't have the depth we have right now which would mean our defense would be even worse, and our OL wouldn't be much better as we wouldn't have had space to sign a guy like Bobbie Williams (even though he's not great, at least he's serviceable) and we wouldn't have Jacoby either most likely.
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DontTazeMeBro


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Protect Flacco and you are looking at a guy who will throw 4000+. The franchise blindside protector has gotten overrated but if there is any QB who needs it, we got him. But he'll be worth it.
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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 177
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Protect Flacco and you are looking at a guy who will throw 4000+. The franchise blindside protector has gotten overrated but if there is any QB who needs it, we got him. But he'll be worth it.


How many more excuses are we going to make for Flacco. First we got him a run game and he had an amazing defense then we got him receivers granted that wwasnt the most successful until now lol now we are going to get a new OC and better o line wats next? any quarterback that has a great online running game receivers and OC should be able to win it all the QBs that wins wills his team to wins thats a true Franchise Qb he makes his team better not the other way around.
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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it wrong for me to want super bowls every year (i know thats not realistic) The Ravens are an organization that has the potential to be a great franchise like the steelers in the 70's niners in the 80's cowboys in the 90's patriots in the 00's

"show me a good loser and ill show you a loser"
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

santiagomn8 wrote:
Why is it wrong for me to want super bowls every year (i know thats not realistic) The Ravens are an organization that has the potential to be a great franchise like the steelers in the 70's niners in the 80's cowboys in the 90's patriots in the 00's

"show me a good loser and ill show you a loser"


It's not about not wanting a dynasty -- but like you said, it's unrealistic. Unless we stumble upon a HOF QB, it's highly unlikely. We're run by great people that have made us a pernennial contender even with a guy like Flacco. But, because of that, unless we tank for a season and pick top 5, we aren't going to get a guy that gives us much more than Flacco in all likelihood. He's shown he's good enough to get us there if we put the solid team around him -- this season, he really hasn't had that. Our defense has been not good, our OL is still struggling with protection, and our WRs still struggle with separation. Flacco isn't the kind of guy that is able to make those around him better -- we have to accept that. But, give him guys that can get open (a new system can help this), and OL that can give him some time (a new system can mitigate this if we can't get that OL), and a defense that doesn't give up 4th quarter leads (getting guys back from injuries plus some new young talent can help this) and we'll see the same success we've seen for years.

Remember -- Flacco had us with a lead late in the game in both the Pittsburgh and Washington games (even though he didnt play all too well, we still had the lead) and our defense let the backup QBs beat us. Had the defense stepped up, we'd be 11-3 and only out of a first round BYE due to a tiebreaker. Joe has certainly not played well as of late, but the rest of the team hasn't either -- this is a whole team effort of ineptitude, not just Joe Flacco.
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

santiagomn8 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Protect Flacco and you are looking at a guy who will throw 4000+. The franchise blindside protector has gotten overrated but if there is any QB who needs it, we got him. But he'll be worth it.


How many more excuses are we going to make for Flacco. First we got him a run game and he had an amazing defense then we got him receivers granted that wwasnt the most successful until now lol now we are going to get a new OC and better o line wats next? any quarterback that has a great online running game receivers and OC should be able to win it all the QBs that wins wills his team to wins thats a true Franchise Qb he makes his team better not the other way around.


I don't need to make excuses for Flacco. I believe he is an elite QB and has shown it.

He had a game winning TD taken away from him against Philly.

Led us to a victory from 9 down with 4 minutes left against the Patriots.

Matched the Cowboys point for point in a shoot out. Led us to a W from down 10 with 7 minutes left against San Diego.

Washington he marches us down for a TD to make it 28-20 on our last offensive possession of regulation.

We needed a FG at Cleveland in the 4th. He marches us down and gets us a TD.

He led what should have been a game winning drive in the AFC Championship.

Led an epic game winning drive at Heinz Field despite multiple drops.

He is one of the most clutch QBs in the league. It is pretty close to factual.


And this was Caldwell's first game as an offensive coordinator EVER. Give it a minute.
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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
santiagomn8 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Protect Flacco and you are looking at a guy who will throw 4000+. The franchise blindside protector has gotten overrated but if there is any QB who needs it, we got him. But he'll be worth it.


How many more excuses are we going to make for Flacco. First we got him a run game and he had an amazing defense then we got him receivers granted that wwasnt the most successful until now lol now we are going to get a new OC and better o line wats next? any quarterback that has a great online running game receivers and OC should be able to win it all the QBs that wins wills his team to wins thats a true Franchise Qb he makes his team better not the other way around.


I don't need to make excuses for Flacco. I believe he is an elite QB and has shown it.

He had a game winning TD taken away from him against Philly.

Led us to a victory from 9 down with 4 minutes left against the Patriots.

Matched the Cowboys point for point in a shoot out. Led us to a W from down 10 with 7 minutes left against San Diego.

Washington he marches us down for a TD to make it 28-20 on our last offensive possession of regulation.

We needed a FG at Cleveland in the 4th. He marches us down and gets us a TD.

He led what should have been a game winning drive in the AFC Championship.

Led an epic game winning drive at Heinz Field despite multiple drops.

He is one of the most clutch QBs in the league. It is pretty close to factual.


And this was Caldwell's first game as an offensive coordinator EVER. Give it a minute.



Mark Sanchez has lead many game winning drives is he elite? no im not comparing them cause i think Flacco is WAY better than Sanchez im just saying that its takes more than a few comeback wins to be called elite. I guess if he could just be consistent for a season or hell like a 6 to 8 game stretch that would be great i just hate that its a crap shoot to which flacco we are going to get each sunday. he reminds me of Eli Manning in consistent but still confident in himself the only difference Manning has showed he can lead his team and be consistent when it counts.

as i said before i HOPE IM WORNG ABOUT FLACCO but i just dont see it
(i have been wrong in the past i hated ladarius webb and wanted him gone but im so glad we kept him he has really come onand ill admit i was wrong about him)
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

santiagomn8 wrote:
Why is it wrong for me to want super bowls every year (i know thats not realistic) The Ravens are an organization that has the potential to be a great franchise like the steelers in the 70's niners in the 80's cowboys in the 90's patriots in the 00's

"show me a good loser and ill show you a loser"



Winning the Super Bowl every year has been a more realistic proposition with Joe Flacco at QB than it has been at any other time in the Ravens' relatively brief history.

Five years in the league, five playoff seasons, each time the loss has been by the narrowest of narrow margins. And last year Joe Flacco had the Ravens in the Super Bowl. He threw the TD pass that would have won the game. Put it right in Lee Evans' hands... and we all know what happened next.

Now, he wasn't the only reason that the Ravens made the playoffs each year, and he wasn't free of blame for some of the losses that ensued, but he has been a factor in the Ravens' sustained success since he was drafted. Ignoring that would be a mistake for the organisation, in my opinion.

People talk about him running out of excuses, and I do agree with that. He still had one big excuse left, in the form of Cam Cameron. Now he's gone, and we won't see an instant turnaround because it's not possible to perform one that quickly. The proof will be next season, when the new OC (whether it be Caldwell or someone else) has had the time to install their offense and coach the players up on it. If Flacco still doesn't perform, then he's out of excuses and the team will have to consider moving on.

I get the feeling that, if we get everything lined up correctly, we'll see a lot more games like the Bengals one than like the Texans one.
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NJ Raven


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be all about getting Teddy Bridgewater if this Flacco thing doesn't improve. This was the perfect season for him to break out and after 15 weeks, he hasn't. He's going to be here next year at least, but there really isn't anymore excuses for his poor play.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright I have the solution! This is what we need to make Flacco work as a QB here in Baltimore:

- A great OC who can scheme the hell out of the game (Payton, McCarthy, Turner, Shanahan)

- Great weapons around him (Calvin Johnson on the outside with Welker in the slot and Gronk/Graham at TE)

- The best offensive line in the galaxy, with Duane Brown and Ryan Clady rotating at LT to protect Flacco

- A trio of the best RB's you can find (Ray Rice, Lynch and AP)

- A defense that will NEVER get blown out and always keep the game close.

This is what I see from everyone who's defending Flacco. We need better weapons. We need a better OC (my argument). We need to protect Flacco better. But RARELY have I seen (from any of the Flacco supporters) that Flacco himself needs to actually get better to MAKE the players around him better.

If you don't think the talent we have around Flacco right now is enough to win a Superbowl, you're crazy. If you don't think that after yesterday, the week before, and the week before that, that Flacco has regressed in terms of just about everything, you're crazy. Bottom line: Flacco needs to improve, NOT the players around him! Michael Oher didn't make Flacco throw a pick six while staring down his WR. Anquan Boldin didn't make Flacco's accuracy suddenly look Tebow-esque. Lastly, Cam Cameron didn't give Joe Flacco his terrible pocket awareness and footwork.

We can make all the excuses we want for Flacco, and some of it I think is that people are just flat out in denial about the guy and want to believe he's the franchise QB that he never has been and possibly never will be, but regardless, stop making excuses and just accept that it starts with Flacco getting better.

We will ride out this season together, and wherever we finish is where we finish, I just want to see improvement, which I haven't seen. Next year we will have (hopefully) a competent OC, a defense that is healthy and young and hungry, and a team that is ready to take the next step with (hopefully) a QB playing for the contract he wants.
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JROD82891


Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 259
Location: Virginia Beach
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
santiagomn8 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Protect Flacco and you are looking at a guy who will throw 4000+. The franchise blindside protector has gotten overrated but if there is any QB who needs it, we got him. But he'll be worth it.


How many more excuses are we going to make for Flacco. First we got him a run game and he had an amazing defense then we got him receivers granted that wwasnt the most successful until now lol now we are going to get a new OC and better o line wats next? any quarterback that has a great online running game receivers and OC should be able to win it all the QBs that wins wills his team to wins thats a true Franchise Qb he makes his team better not the other way around.


I don't need to make excuses for Flacco. I believe he is an elite QB and has shown it.

He had a game winning TD taken away from him against Philly.

Led us to a victory from 9 down with 4 minutes left against the Patriots.

Matched the Cowboys point for point in a shoot out. Led us to a W from down 10 with 7 minutes left against San Diego.

Washington he marches us down for a TD to make it 28-20 on our last offensive possession of regulation.

We needed a FG at Cleveland in the 4th. He marches us down and gets us a TD.

He led what should have been a game winning drive in the AFC Championship.

Led an epic game winning drive at Heinz Field despite multiple drops.

He is one of the most clutch QBs in the league. It is pretty close to factual.


And this was Caldwell's first game as an offensive coordinator EVER. Give it a minute.



This is pure brilliance. The absolute truth and a lot Ravens' fans refuse to see it. I watch other teams after our games and see WR's of all of calibre making difficult catches on a fairly frequent basis. Not here in Baltimore. Torrey wants everything thrown in his bread basket and never goes up to get the ball at the high point, using body control, unless hes in the redzone. Champ Bailey was jogging while picking his nose at the same time covering Boldin on a few plays. (He has his games, but my god he's slow) Sure we don't have the most mobile QB (he chooses not to use his legs..WHY!!?), he also comes with terrible pocket awareness, but I just don't see other teams' lines getting absolutely mauled like ours. Our line is very comparable to the Arizonas and Phillys of the NFL. It's quite sad. I've gotten frusturated with Joe's overthrows and turnovers as well, but when people say he needs to step up into the pocket.....WHAT POCKET?? Throw in a very abysmal scheme and I just don't see how our fanbase' expectations for this guy can even be remotely close to where it's at. Just, buckle up folks. We'll make some noise in the playoffs, and most likely get bounced on the road, but at least we've gotten rid of Cam. That's such a monumental step in the right direction for this franchise.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're so "black and white" its beyond ridiculous at this point. I can hardly even take your posts seriously.

I'll go into details.

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:

- A great OC who can scheme the hell out of the game (Payton, McCarthy, Turner, Shanahan)


Nobody has said we need a guy who can "scheme the hell out of the game" except you. We've simply said we need somebody whose scheme matches Flacco's strengths and minimizes his weaknesses.

Quote:
- Great weapons around him (Calvin Johnson on the outside with Welker in the slot and Gronk/Graham at TE)


Again, nobody has ever said this. We've said we need guys who can get open more often, whether that's by way of scheme or ability -- fact is, our WRs struggle getting separation and have for years.

Quote:
- The best offensive line in the galaxy, with Duane Brown and Ryan Clady rotating at LT to protect Flacco


This is getting annoying. See the last two -- nobody has said anything close to this. We've said we need an OL that keeps him from getting hit as much as he does. Again, whether its by way of scheme (quicker passes) or talent, it needs to happen.

Quote:
- A trio of the best RB's you can find (Ray Rice, Lynch and AP)


Annoying.

Quote:
- A defense that will NEVER get blown out and always keep the game close.


Again, false -- he just needs a defense that can close out games to backup QBs.

Quote:
This is what I see from everyone who's defending Flacco. We need better weapons. We need a better OC (my argument). We need to protect Flacco better. But RARELY have I seen (from any of the Flacco supporters) that Flacco himself needs to actually get better to MAKE the players around him better.


I have yet to see a person who says Flacco doesn't still have to improve (outside of DTMB). We all mention that -- but we also recognize that there are other factors that are contributing to his play as well, and those things need to improve as well. Each thing improves a bit and overall we see a big improvement.

Quote:
If you don't think the talent we have around Flacco right now is enough to win a Superbowl, you're crazy.


On paper? Sure. Injuries and schemes? We could still win, sure, but it's less likely.

Quote:
If you don't think that after yesterday, the week before, and the week before that, that Flacco has regressed in terms of just about everything, you're crazy.


I wouldn't say "regressed", I'd say "slumping".

But if you haven't noticed that the defense blew last minute leads to backup QBs in 2 of the past 3 weeks that would have us sitting at the #3 seed and 11-3, you're crazy.

Quote:
Bottom line: Flacco needs to improve, NOT the players around him!


False. We have a lot of people that need to improve. There is literally not one player on the team that's fully pulling their weight at this point. Not one. Maybe Yanda has an argument, but that's about it.

Quote:
Michael Oher didn't make Flacco throw a pick six while staring down his WR.


Dumb argument.

Quote:
Anquan Boldin didn't make Flacco's accuracy suddenly look Tebow-esque.


Of course not, but his inability to create separation certainly has played a part.

Quote:
Lastly, Cam Cameron didn't give Joe Flacco his terrible pocket awareness and footwork.


Of course not, but his system and play calling were plays that relied on a QB having these attributes instead of tailoring it to Flacco's strengths.

Quote:
We can make all the excuses we want for Flacco, and some of it I think is that people are just flat out in denial about the guy and want to believe he's the franchise QB that he never has been and possibly never will be, but regardless, stop making excuses and just accept that it starts with Flacco getting better.


Again, I don't know where you're reading posts, but it certainly isn't here. It starts with Flacco AND the rest of the team all improving. Every single person has things to improve on, not just Joe. He's FAR FAR FAR from the only person not pulling his weight right now. Emphasis on "FAR".

Quote:
We will ride out this season together, and wherever we finish is where we finish, I just want to see improvement, which I haven't seen. Next year we will have (hopefully) a competent OC, a defense that is healthy and young and hungry, and a team that is ready to take the next step with (hopefully) a QB playing for the contract he wants.


So WAIT.. wait wait wait...

Here you are saying it's all Joe, that the defense and whatever else aren't the ones making hte mistakes... and then your last point is pointing out how injury riddled our defense is and how the team as a whole needs to step up. Wtf?
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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JROD82891 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
santiagomn8 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Protect Flacco and you are looking at a guy who will throw 4000+. The franchise blindside protector has gotten overrated but if there is any QB who needs it, we got him. But he'll be worth it.


How many more excuses are we going to make for Flacco. First we got him a run game and he had an amazing defense then we got him receivers granted that wwasnt the most successful until now lol now we are going to get a new OC and better o line wats next? any quarterback that has a great online running game receivers and OC should be able to win it all the QBs that wins wills his team to wins thats a true Franchise Qb he makes his team better not the other way around.


I don't need to make excuses for Flacco. I believe he is an elite QB and has shown it.

He had a game winning TD taken away from him against Philly.

Led us to a victory from 9 down with 4 minutes left against the Patriots.

Matched the Cowboys point for point in a shoot out. Led us to a W from down 10 with 7 minutes left against San Diego.

Washington he marches us down for a TD to make it 28-20 on our last offensive possession of regulation.

We needed a FG at Cleveland in the 4th. He marches us down and gets us a TD.

He led what should have been a game winning drive in the AFC Championship.

Led an epic game winning drive at Heinz Field despite multiple drops.

He is one of the most clutch QBs in the league. It is pretty close to factual.


And this was Caldwell's first game as an offensive coordinator EVER. Give it a minute.



This is pure brilliance. The absolute truth and a lot Ravens' fans refuse to see it. I watch other teams after our games and see WR's of all of calibre making difficult catches on a fairly frequent basis. Not here in Baltimore. Torrey wants everything thrown in his bread basket and never goes up to get the ball at the high point, using body control, unless hes in the redzone. Champ Bailey was jogging while picking his nose at the same time covering Boldin on a few plays. (He has his games, but my god he's slow) Sure we don't have the most mobile QB (he chooses not to use his legs..WHY!!?), he also comes with terrible pocket awareness, but I just don't see other teams' lines getting absolutely mauled like ours. Our line is very comparable to the Arizonas and Phillys of the NFL. It's quite sad. I've gotten frusturated with Joe's overthrows and turnovers as well, but when people say he needs to step up into the pocket.....WHAT POCKET?? Throw in a very abysmal scheme and I just don't see how our fanbase' expectations for this guy can even be remotely close to where it's at. Just, buckle up folks. We'll make some noise in the playoffs, and most likely get bounced on the road, but at least we've gotten rid of Cam. That's such a monumental step in the right direction for this franchise.



Torrey smith doesn't jump for the ball??? Have u not seen some of the catches he has mad for us? And we use bold in wrong he should be inside he would dominate inside if you had Torrey and jacoby outside and pitta bold in and DOSS inside we could do special things...ppl say we are spoiled for having winning seasons and wanting Super Bowl after Super Bowl is selfish...well I say ppl are bias cause we have had such poor QB play for so long and as soon as a serviceable QB comes around we see him as the savior. I say why settle for serviceable when we can go out and look for great
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 2293
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Alright I have the solution! This is what we need to make Flacco work as a QB here in Baltimore:

- A great OC who can scheme the hell out of the game (Payton, McCarthy, Turner, Shanahan)

- Great weapons around him (Calvin Johnson on the outside with Welker in the slot and Gronk/Graham at TE)

- The best offensive line in the galaxy, with Duane Brown and Ryan Clady rotating at LT to protect Flacco

- A trio of the best RB's you can find (Ray Rice, Lynch and AP)

- A defense that will NEVER get blown out and always keep the game close.

This is what I see from everyone who's defending Flacco. We need better weapons. We need a better OC (my argument). We need to protect Flacco better. But RARELY have I seen (from any of the Flacco supporters) that Flacco himself needs to actually get better to MAKE the players around him better.


Nothing like a bit of hyperbole, huh?

I think the weapons Flacco has at the moment are fine. The RBs, WRs and TEs at his disposal are good enough to play at a very high level. But they need the scheme that complements their abilities, and Cam Cameron never gave it to them.

Air Coryell with no receivers taller than 6'1, a reluctance to pass over the middle to a TE capable of making big plays, little to no variety in the type of run plays and receiving routes being called.

The O-line is a problem, and we all know it is. What happens when your offensive line can't stop pass rushers? Your QB gets sacked. He can try running about in the backfield, if he's got the mobility for it, but more often than not he'll still get squashed if it's happening consistently.

Does Flacco need to play better, on a more consistent basis? Yes. The same could be said for all the players on offense. Just like the same could be said for their effectiveness being limited because of the things they were being asked to do.

What did Atlanta do for Matt Ryan to get him playing at the level he is this season? A new OC who built the offense around Ryan, three of the best receiving targets in the league and a solid offensive line. They didn't force him to adapt his game to the system they wanted to run, which is exactly what Cam Cameron did do with Joe Flacco and the other offensive players.
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