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packerfan50


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 286
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The offense just needs to score touchdowns and not depend on Mason for field goals. Problem solved!
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13925
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go back and read every post I ever made. It will not take you long to see I'm the last one asking for a player cut. That said, I cut Crosby like yesterday! If not for the contract in hand, good chance this staff would do so also. You can't lack confidence as an NFL kicker, period! I bet there are 10 legs on the open market right now that are hitting the ball better than Crosby is.

Reason why I would never draft/pay a kicker also. They just lose it/find it far too much for me to hold that premium.
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valpoPackers


Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 544
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mason Crosby this season reminds me of 2009 Bill Hall. Guy had good seasons and had the talent, but somehow managed to get completely lost doing his job and quickly became comically horrible and a laughingstock on the team.
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
Go back and read every post I ever made. It will not take you long to see I'm the last one asking for a player cut. That said, I cut Crosby like yesterday! If not for the contract in hand, good chance this staff would do so also. You can't lack confidence as an NFL kicker, period! I bet there are 10 legs on the open market right now that are hitting the ball better than Crosby is.

Reason why I would never draft/pay a kicker also. They just lose it/find it far too much for me to hold that premium.


Quote:
7/29/2011: Signed a five-year, $14.75 million contract. The deal included a $3 million signing bonus. Annual $150,000 workout bonuses are available in years two through five. 2012: $1.65 million, 2013: $2.4 million, 2014: $2.65 million, 2015: $2.8 million, 2016: Free Agent


Cut him next season and you end up paying 1.8 into the cap over 3 years.

7.85-8.30 million is what he would cost over three years to keep him.

As long as you bring in a guy for 7.05-7.50 over three years and he's the same or better talent then you benefit. 2.35-2.50 a year saved not including the contract of the kicker we bring in. I bet we could sing a couple kickers better than Crosby and tell them to split 2.50 to be honest Shocked
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13925
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Go back and read every post I ever made. It will not take you long to see I'm the last one asking for a player cut. That said, I cut Crosby like yesterday! If not for the contract in hand, good chance this staff would do so also. You can't lack confidence as an NFL kicker, period! I bet there are 10 legs on the open market right now that are hitting the ball better than Crosby is.

Reason why I would never draft/pay a kicker also. They just lose it/find it far too much for me to hold that premium.


Quote:
7/29/2011: Signed a five-year, $14.75 million contract. The deal included a $3 million signing bonus. Annual $150,000 workout bonuses are available in years two through five. 2012: $1.65 million, 2013: $2.4 million, 2014: $2.65 million, 2015: $2.8 million, 2016: Free Agent


Cut him next season and you end up paying 1.8 into the cap over 3 years.

7.85-8.30 million is what he would cost over three years to keep him.

As long as you bring in a guy for 7.05-7.50 over three years and he's the same or better talent then you benefit. 2.35-2.50 a year saved not including the contract of the kicker we bring in. I bet we could sing a couple kickers better than Crosby and tell them to split 2.50 to be honest Shocked


Just sayin. TT is old school with a rep around the game of expecting play for pay. I would bet the farm TT got sick a little when he handed out that contract to a kicker. Fact is, man still has the old school mindset. He has faith in his eye!!! Lets just say I would not feel real good about my job right now if I was his position coach. Crosby is lucky in all of this though. TT has shelled his limit on the kicker position. Good chance he sees little value in shelling out any more. Sure as hell wants no "dead money" flushed on the kicking position. Old school football right there. Not sayin it's right, just sayin.
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
Sure as hell wants no "dead money" flushed on the kicking position. Old school football right there. Not sayin it's right, just sayin.
But if the contract is less than Crosby's base salary then would it really be dead money? They would be saving money, right? Or is it just the belief that you are paying someone who isn't there?
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{Family Ghost}


Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 1426
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Title Town USA wrote:
byzr wrote:
i'm sticking with him till the vikings game.
Then what happens if he's still sucking? Then finally bring in a kicker who hasn't kicked all year and hope he's ready for the playoffs? Yeah, no pressure there.

No reason we shouldn't at least be bringing guys in for a look-see right now. Who knows, maybe that alone would get Crosby to snapped out of this funk.


I think the above is probably correct .. they are going to give him as long as they can to work out his problems. I do think if he is still struggling at that the end of the regular season he will be a goner. There is no way they are going to go into the playoffs with a kicker who can't make FG's.

A case could be made that now would be the time to make the move so you can get the new kicker a game at Lambeau before the playoffs, but I'm sure their hope is that Crosby will come out of this just in time for the playoffs. It's a risky move, and one that could cost us a playoff game.
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PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4206
Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

valpoPackers wrote:
Mason Crosby this season reminds me of 2009 Bill Hall. Guy had good seasons and had the talent, but somehow managed to get completely lost doing his job and quickly became comically horrible and a laughingstock on the team.


Crosby could be Hall, or he could be Rickie Weeks, a guy that did not have it until the final month and half of the season, and suddenly he was one of the better hitters on the team again. Confidence can come and go and come back.

TT and MM are waiting to find out if Crosby is going to go Bill Hall or Rickie Weeks on them. The reason they have the patience with Crosby is because, like the baseball players mentioned above, they have seen Crosby do it before, so there is a good chance he will do it again. Then, as I said earlier in this thread, is the contract.

MM will put Crosby in circumstances these next two weeks to get out of it, if he does not, he will get a field goal kicker for the playoffs. That is not TOO LATE at all.

A lot of panic here and not a lot of big picture. This will play out and the solution will come with some patience and thought by a smart front office.
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gizmo2012


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 2839
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackFan4Life wrote:
valpoPackers wrote:
Mason Crosby this season reminds me of 2009 Bill Hall. Guy had good seasons and had the talent, but somehow managed to get completely lost doing his job and quickly became comically horrible and a laughingstock on the team.


Crosby could be Hall, or he could be Rickie Weeks, a guy that did not have it until the final month and half of the season, and suddenly he was one of the better hitters on the team again. Confidence can come and go and come back.

TT and MM are waiting to find out if Crosby is going to go Bill Hall or Rickie Weeks on them. The reason they have the patience with Crosby is because, like the baseball players mentioned above, they have seen Crosby do it before, so there is a good chance he will do it again. Then, as I said earlier in this thread, is the contract.

MM will put Crosby in circumstances these next two weeks to get out of it, if he does not, he will get a field goal kicker for the playoffs. That is not TOO LATE at all.

A lot of panic here and not a lot of big picture. This will play out and the solution will come with some patience and thought by a smart front office.


Great attitude but its just too bad its delusional. Mason Crosby is a broken kicker - no confidence, his kicks look like scud missles because who knows where they are going. The fact is Mason has to go because he has had 7 weeks to turn things around and do you see any improvement. Mike McCarthy has to use his head and not his heart at this point.
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Atari-XXX


Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 2536
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackFan4Life wrote:
valpoPackers wrote:
Mason Crosby this season reminds me of 2009 Bill Hall. Guy had good seasons and had the talent, but somehow managed to get completely lost doing his job and quickly became comically horrible and a laughingstock on the team.


Crosby could be Hall, or he could be Rickie Weeks, a guy that did not have it until the final month and half of the season, and suddenly he was one of the better hitters on the team again. Confidence can come and go and come back.

TT and MM are waiting to find out if Crosby is going to go Bill Hall or Rickie Weeks on them. The reason they have the patience with Crosby is because, like the baseball players mentioned above, they have seen Crosby do it before, so there is a good chance he will do it again. Then, as I said earlier in this thread, is the contract.

MM will put Crosby in circumstances these next two weeks to get out of it, if he does not, he will get a field goal kicker for the playoffs. That is not TOO LATE at all.

A lot of panic here and not a lot of big picture. This will play out and the solution will come with some patience and thought by a smart front office.


Kicking a FG against the Tennessee Titans or kicking a FG in the playoffs are two completely different stories. Even if he would go 3-for-3 on Sunday, I would not trust him at all to kick the game-winning or game-tying FG in the playoffs. The offense would have to get to the 20-yard line because nobody trusts him on long FG's.

The Ravens made the same mistake with Cundiff. They thought his confidence would come back. It never did.
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mikemike778


Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 259
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swingdance wrote:
Yeah, I believe that Crosby will not be back next year in spite of what McCarthy says. He's just too unreliable at long distance.


He's unreliable from any distance.

Having said that wasn't it our superbowl season he had a horrible run - bit like this when we were considering going for it on 4th downs within FG range.

Superstition ??? Same going to happen ?

Either way if it was the first time then maybe you let him play it out but not a second time.
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nfldraftguru1


Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 10256
Location: Whitewater, WI
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackFan4Life wrote:
valpoPackers wrote:
Mason Crosby this season reminds me of 2009 Bill Hall. Guy had good seasons and had the talent, but somehow managed to get completely lost doing his job and quickly became comically horrible and a laughingstock on the team.


Crosby could be Hall, or he could be Rickie Weeks, a guy that did not have it until the final month and half of the season, and suddenly he was one of the better hitters on the team again. Confidence can come and go and come back.

TT and MM are waiting to find out if Crosby is going to go Bill Hall or Rickie Weeks on them. The reason they have the patience with Crosby is because, like the baseball players mentioned above, they have seen Crosby do it before, so there is a good chance he will do it again. Then, as I said earlier in this thread, is the contract.

MM will put Crosby in circumstances these next two weeks to get out of it, if he does not, he will get a field goal kicker for the playoffs. That is not TOO LATE at all.

A lot of panic here and not a lot of big picture. This will play out and the solution will come with some patience and thought by a smart front office.


Weeks was injury related and Bill Hall had one good year. Not sure they're related to anything regarding Crosby.

He's just lost it, like Derrick Turnbow did.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Sure as hell wants no "dead money" flushed on the kicking position. Old school football right there. Not sayin it's right, just sayin.
But if the contract is less than Crosby's base salary then would it really be dead money? They would be saving money, right? Or is it just the belief that you are paying someone who isn't there?


It's still "dead money" on Crosby. GM's hate "dead money" and to have it on a kick might be enough to drive one off the cliff. One also needs to remember that TT is playing with a different set of cards than every other GM in the NFL because of the public ownership. At some level I'm sure he takes great pride in every penny being well spent.
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 9075
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of folks are questioning MM and his standing by his kicker. I suspect he's doing this for 2 reasons. #1 he hopes he can instill confidence in Mason so he can get his mojo back and #2 there might not be any other options right now. For any other position on the team if somebody is screwing up it's "next man up" but not if you're the only man besides the punter!
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PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4206
Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
A lot of folks are questioning MM and his standing by his kicker. I suspect he's doing this for 2 reasons. #1 he hopes he can instill confidence in Mason so he can get his mojo back and #2 there might not be any other options right now. For any other position on the team if somebody is screwing up it's "next man up" but not if you're the only man besides the punter!


I can totally understand and concede, because I believe also, that Crosby is a huge liability going forward. But unlike a lot of these others that just want to pile on right now, MM's wait and see approach is going to do little if any harm these next two weeks. The smart thing to do, whether we really want to believe in Crosby or not, is to see if he figures it out in two weeks. Again, if not, they will get someone else for the playoffs. That is not too late, kicking a FG is what it is, whether it is in the playoffs or fighting for a job in training camp. There is pressure on every kick. Whoever is brought in is not going to melt because suddenly he has to kick in a playoff game. I cannot buy that reasoning at all. No need to do anything now except see if Crosby has it in him to figure it out these next two weeks. Although I have reservations about him figuring it out, I am pulling for the guy because it is much better for the Packers if he does.
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